Rishworth recruiting for Jetstar NZ
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and the future holds????
Just chipping in here as an Aussie sick of being screwed by a Regional here, and thinking, hmmmm 18 months in a jet (albeit on ****e pay) then contract work in china. Can it be that bad? I've had freinds visit China and said it is a pretty modern place where the aviation takes place at least. I'm not sure about the VOR type issues though, being paid etc....is this a common problem?
I would be interested to hear thoughts on someone in my position using the industry for a couple of years to get where I want to go, and THEN make the cough 'big money'
I would be interested to hear thoughts on someone in my position using the industry for a couple of years to get where I want to go, and THEN make the cough 'big money'
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...someone in my position using the industry for a couple of years to get where I want to go...
Have a think about what you'll be helping to leave behind for the rest of us while you're away on the big bucks. Give some thought also to what kind of industry you might want to come home to one day...
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when a union with balls takes a stand and calls for action I will be up the front. As I have found however to be the sad fact of it all, when it comes time for the pilots to be accountable they are nowhere to be found. Same happened with the dairy industry years ago. In the mean time I gotta pay my mortgage. Lets see a day of national action when all the pilots call in sick. I'll do it but I bet my collegues all front up so where will that leave me. It's a ****e industry, the glory days are over. I'm here on this Oblate Spheroid trying to do the same as everyone else. Make a buck. The CEO's are doing it at our expense so why not get what you want out of them in return
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APACHE mentioned it first, but it seems that in the race for some to justify the package it has not been mentioned since. (apologies if I have missed someone who has).
The contract states (in part..)
Hold or be eligible to hold an Australian ATPL
Hold or be eligible to hold an Australian Class 1 Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating
Must be entitled to reside in New Zealand
If the position requires an Aussie ATPL/CIR, it would seem that Aussie registered Jetstar aircraft will be flown.
It would appear that Jetstar (under QANTAS umbrella) will be using Kiwis to circumvent current Aussie conditions and Fair Work Laws.
BTW............
History???? "1983 the Australian shearing industry was torn apart by the wide comb dispute and the ensuing 10 week strike that followed. The offending combs had been introduced by New Zealanders who were weaker union supporters". (reference wikipedia).
Perhaps the sooner Kiwi becomes the 3rd Territory of Aussie
, the stronger industrial relations, at least in regards to aviation, will be.
The contract states (in part..)
Hold or be eligible to hold an Australian ATPL
Hold or be eligible to hold an Australian Class 1 Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating
Must be entitled to reside in New Zealand
If the position requires an Aussie ATPL/CIR, it would seem that Aussie registered Jetstar aircraft will be flown.
It would appear that Jetstar (under QANTAS umbrella) will be using Kiwis to circumvent current Aussie conditions and Fair Work Laws.
BTW............
History???? "1983 the Australian shearing industry was torn apart by the wide comb dispute and the ensuing 10 week strike that followed. The offending combs had been introduced by New Zealanders who were weaker union supporters". (reference wikipedia).
Perhaps the sooner Kiwi becomes the 3rd Territory of Aussie
, the stronger industrial relations, at least in regards to aviation, will be.
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If the position requires an Aussie ATPL/CIR, it would seem that Aussie registered Jetstar aircraft will be flown
As the aircraft are Australian registered, New Zealand ATPL holders will need to convert their licenses to Australian
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Sign-On Bonus
A320 Type Rated Captain – NZ$30,000
Non A320 Type Rated Captain – NZ$10,000 plus Jetstar to cover A320 Type Rating (3 year bond)
A320 Type Rated Captain – NZ$30,000
Non A320 Type Rated Captain – NZ$10,000 plus Jetstar to cover A320 Type Rating (3 year bond)
It seems Jet* feel they can do both - have you pay $20,000 for the endorsement (by reducing your sign-on bonus) & then bonding you for 3 years as well. Sneaky!
You cannot blame JQ for trying. They know the NZ operation is there to be exploited. JQ ( NZ ) is a shell company for that very reason. There is no real union support for the pilots, individual pilot contracts. I would be very interested to see JQ ( NZ ) 5 yr plan - I would hazard a guess the B787 will be crewed ex AKL and the pilots paid in the kiwi paso.
J*
Luke Sky Toddler,
I get your point regarding the US $, but don't forget to take into consideration the COST OF LIVING ! it's not how much you make that is important, but how much you spend.
$10.000 in Hanoi or India, isn't the same as Singapore or even NZ.......Again, who cares if the US dollars falls to .50c ? as long as you are not commuting in the Sates it's not a big deal.
If I follow your idea, J*' salary's would be crap in EU or even for the Sates, about if you were comparing it with India, Bangladesk, Pakistan...etc ?????? would that be a good salary if you were living in those ****ty countries? you bet!
However I agree with you on 1 point, the FO package is crap ! but as long as there are guys willing to take it, J* won't increase it.....
I get your point regarding the US $, but don't forget to take into consideration the COST OF LIVING ! it's not how much you make that is important, but how much you spend.
$10.000 in Hanoi or India, isn't the same as Singapore or even NZ.......Again, who cares if the US dollars falls to .50c ? as long as you are not commuting in the Sates it's not a big deal.
If I follow your idea, J*' salary's would be crap in EU or even for the Sates, about if you were comparing it with India, Bangladesk, Pakistan...etc ?????? would that be a good salary if you were living in those ****ty countries? you bet!
However I agree with you on 1 point, the FO package is crap ! but as long as there are guys willing to take it, J* won't increase it.....
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Out of interest does anyone know if the J* NZ based pilots currently fly the A330 on either long or shorthaul routes?
doleque
Wiki is a great source of info but in some cases not entirely correct or perhaps if only selectively quoted gives a false impression.
Have you read about the wide comb dispute. It was nothing to do with union support or lack there of, it was about the AWU's head in the sand attitude to new technology. A modern day version of the burning of the spinning jennys in England during the industrial revolution.
The New Zealanders had found a way to work smarter and make the job easier, they weren't alone as quite a few Aussies were using wide combs as well.
Your next gem also indicates a lack of understanding on aviation industrial matters.
That's a great quote coming from the land of two pilot unions that can't work together for the greater good of their members, unions that allow staff travel issues to cloud their EBA claims, the land of the 1 minute strike and left handed screw driver industrial action. 
I think you'll find that ALPA has a better track record in negotiating agreements for New Zealand pilots than their Aussie equivalents have done for Aussie pilots.
As a matter of interest, nearly all the pestilence that has been rained down on pilots in New Zealand has come from Australian owned airlines.
Perhaps it's also worth pointing out, stronger industrial relations only come when the members of those unions have individual intestinal fortitude, in other words a union is only as strong as it's membership.
Wiki is a great source of info but in some cases not entirely correct or perhaps if only selectively quoted gives a false impression.
History???? "1983 the Australian shearing industry was torn apart by the wide comb dispute and the ensuing 10 week strike that followed. The offending combs had been introduced by New Zealanders who were weaker union supporters". (reference wikipedia).
The New Zealanders had found a way to work smarter and make the job easier, they weren't alone as quite a few Aussies were using wide combs as well.
Your next gem also indicates a lack of understanding on aviation industrial matters.
Perhaps the sooner Kiwi becomes the 3rd Territory of Aussie , the stronger industrial relations, at least in regards to aviation, will be.
I think you'll find that ALPA has a better track record in negotiating agreements for New Zealand pilots than their Aussie equivalents have done for Aussie pilots.
As a matter of interest, nearly all the pestilence that has been rained down on pilots in New Zealand has come from Australian owned airlines.
Perhaps it's also worth pointing out, stronger industrial relations only come when the members of those unions have individual intestinal fortitude, in other words a union is only as strong as it's membership.
Last edited by 27/09; 17th Jul 2011 at 00:09.
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If I follow your idea, J*' salary's would be crap in EU or even for the Sates, about if you were comparing it with India, Bangladesk, Pakistan...etc ?????? would that be a good salary if you were living in those ****ty countries? you bet!
I go back to what I mentioned before, you have to come up with a basic monetary value on the buggeration factor of living overseas. On my last contract, I earned shedloads of money but wasn't there when my kids had parent-teacher interviews or needed my help and love. Was it worth it? Half of me cautiously says yes (that's the half looking at the new toys and house extension), and the other half says definitely not (that's the half that mourns the family time that can never be recaptured).
That's the bit you have to figure out. For me, the Jetstar offer looks pretty good, as it gives me the best of both worlds, and the difference in pay is more than made up for by the fact I get to live where I want.
The other point is that decent DEC opportunities in NZ are virtually unheard of. Grab it while you can. If the conditions eventually depress you, move on.
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Great, glad that helped then! I was basically agreeing with you.
Another point worth mentioning: anyone who thinks their flying career is just about the amount of cubic money they can earn, has sadly missed the point. If the money is all that matters to you, may I humbly suggest you get a life!
Another point worth mentioning: anyone who thinks their flying career is just about the amount of cubic money they can earn, has sadly missed the point. If the money is all that matters to you, may I humbly suggest you get a life!
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I hear what you're saying 74 and remoak and of course you're right, I agree with you the only thing that matters is the cost of living once you're home, nobody cares about exchange rates.
But, every single one of us kiwis who are currently busting our balls overseas on contract in third world countries, is trying to save enough money so we can actually get home one day. The sooner the better. And the money that we are saving, we are sending back to NZ as fast as we can send it. I sure as hell don't want to stay here til I'm 65
The accepted kiwi wisdom has always been that if you want to make the big bucks you have to go overseas. And whenever I've been sitting round in the pub talking about it I've always been more along the lines of Split Flap from a couple of pages ago, "bah I'll never get to go home I couldn't afford the pay cut from what I make now".
So I was actually as surprised as anyone else to discover, when I was doing the calculations the other day, that I would actually be better off to go home, especially to go work for an airline that has taken a relentless bagging on PPRUNE its entire life for paying despicably sub-standard wages
It will be a game changer in the contract world if the $AU and $NZ stay high long term, I don't mean that they'll be able to get away with paying less at the likes of Jetstar, but the overseas contracts will have to up their game considerably or they certainly won't be able to get kiwis and especially aussies to leave home and go work there ... and we do comprise a massively high percentage of the worldwide contractors.
But, every single one of us kiwis who are currently busting our balls overseas on contract in third world countries, is trying to save enough money so we can actually get home one day. The sooner the better. And the money that we are saving, we are sending back to NZ as fast as we can send it. I sure as hell don't want to stay here til I'm 65
The accepted kiwi wisdom has always been that if you want to make the big bucks you have to go overseas. And whenever I've been sitting round in the pub talking about it I've always been more along the lines of Split Flap from a couple of pages ago, "bah I'll never get to go home I couldn't afford the pay cut from what I make now".
So I was actually as surprised as anyone else to discover, when I was doing the calculations the other day, that I would actually be better off to go home, especially to go work for an airline that has taken a relentless bagging on PPRUNE its entire life for paying despicably sub-standard wages
It will be a game changer in the contract world if the $AU and $NZ stay high long term, I don't mean that they'll be able to get away with paying less at the likes of Jetstar, but the overseas contracts will have to up their game considerably or they certainly won't be able to get kiwis and especially aussies to leave home and go work there ... and we do comprise a massively high percentage of the worldwide contractors.
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At the end of the day, if you want to get back to NZ in the next 20? years, and don't want to go right seat on a turboprop, though that is a fun job, then it's this or nothing.
Once upon a time you could amass a small fortune as an expat by the time you were 40 and go home and spend a big $150K on a mansion in Christchurch. Sorry to say things have changed in the industry and the cost of living in NZ. For those of you who haven't been back in a while, winning the $100K Golden Kiwi won't set you up for life.
Supply and demand, this is what they are offering and I'm guessing there are enough homesick kiwi's who miss fishing, extended family and their HQ Holden. They're tired of sand or LVP crap weather 9 months of the year and they're not getting any younger so they'll take it.
If the money's not good enough for you wait another 10 years and see what else pops up back home.
Once upon a time you could amass a small fortune as an expat by the time you were 40 and go home and spend a big $150K on a mansion in Christchurch. Sorry to say things have changed in the industry and the cost of living in NZ. For those of you who haven't been back in a while, winning the $100K Golden Kiwi won't set you up for life.
Supply and demand, this is what they are offering and I'm guessing there are enough homesick kiwi's who miss fishing, extended family and their HQ Holden. They're tired of sand or LVP crap weather 9 months of the year and they're not getting any younger so they'll take it.
If the money's not good enough for you wait another 10 years and see what else pops up back home.
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You sound like a Kiwi stuck on a turbo-prop that can't get a jet job in NZ, am I correct?
If the job at J* is crap, don't apply !
If the job at J* is crap, don't apply !
At that money you're better off being "stuck" on a turbo prop in NZ (or cleaning up splits lawn) than flying for Jetstar NZ.
And for those of you thinking "I will just do it to get some jet time and then go overseas." Think about it this way....Just because the girl is working the street to pay for Medical school, does that make it right?
Enjoy your deepheat smeared broomstick, I'll stick with my turboprop thanks.
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Gee NSN I'd love to come home and be your right hand seat bitch in your awesome turboprop.
Let me check, I've got 9000 TT 7000 multi, a few years turboprop command, a few years on heavy jets. Should be good enough to get a CV on the right pile. Who knows I might even be good enough to get a command on that incredible rocket ship that is the Dash 8, if I wait in line for 10 or 15 years.
Oh wait I haven't got 50 hours recent NZ IFR experience
Guess I'm not good enough to make the grade with you bunch of sky gods after all.
Well I'm gutted but you've left me no choice, I'll have to go "bend over and grab my ankles" for the other guys . The ones with airbuses, that pay more than you.
Ah well I'm over it
Let me check, I've got 9000 TT 7000 multi, a few years turboprop command, a few years on heavy jets. Should be good enough to get a CV on the right pile. Who knows I might even be good enough to get a command on that incredible rocket ship that is the Dash 8, if I wait in line for 10 or 15 years.
Oh wait I haven't got 50 hours recent NZ IFR experience
Guess I'm not good enough to make the grade with you bunch of sky gods after all.
Well I'm gutted but you've left me no choice, I'll have to go "bend over and grab my ankles" for the other guys
. The ones with airbuses, that pay more than you.Ah well I'm over it
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Luke,
Clearly you haven't kept pace with developments in Kiwiland.
In order to further slam the lid on the coffin for characters like you who want to sidestep the aeroclub instructors for a job flying a Dash, the requirements have been extended to include a minimum of five (5) New Zealand, fixed card ADF approaches (at night with ****ty backlighting).
Clearly you haven't kept pace with developments in Kiwiland.
In order to further slam the lid on the coffin for characters like you who want to sidestep the aeroclub instructors for a job flying a Dash, the requirements have been extended to include a minimum of five (5) New Zealand, fixed card ADF approaches (at night with ****ty backlighting).