Future of Qantas in jeopardy: Joyce (Merged)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne
Originally Posted by ArnoldE
Jeez, I hope my super fund doesn't hold Q shares.
Of course, the figures used aren't accurate, feel free to insert relevant figures to make the statement accurate at any given time.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Artic
Clifford's only mission is to destroy the unions and play games to piss off the workforce - he does not have a bigger picture.
ironic, given unions are simply an offshoot of management(s) that fail to take care of their own workforce properly.
In return the workforce looks to unions to help support their cause which actually makes unions more relevant and stronger.
When the senior heads of the company play games with its entire workforce except those at the top echelon how can they ever drive the message that their people are the company's most important assets?
yes, a management that managed to come up with 1 business class product (Skybed) in 10 years
what a great achievement for a 'premium' airline 
ironic, given unions are simply an offshoot of management(s) that fail to take care of their own workforce properly.
In return the workforce looks to unions to help support their cause which actually makes unions more relevant and stronger.
When the senior heads of the company play games with its entire workforce except those at the top echelon how can they ever drive the message that their people are the company's most important assets?
yes, a management that managed to come up with 1 business class product (Skybed) in 10 years
what a great achievement for a 'premium' airline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 4
From: International
Romulus.
Due to the decline in the QF share price the All Ordinaries Index Weighting is now .36%. BTW the share price will drop below $2 on Monday 6 June. The next level of major support is $1.38.
Tom Park the CEO of Paperlinx was pushed out the door last year due to a collapsing share price. I wonder if the same will apply to Alan Joyce ?
Due to the decline in the QF share price the All Ordinaries Index Weighting is now .36%. BTW the share price will drop below $2 on Monday 6 June. The next level of major support is $1.38.
Tom Park the CEO of Paperlinx was pushed out the door last year due to a collapsing share price. I wonder if the same will apply to Alan Joyce ?
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 1
From: The Shire
What annoys me the most is AJ can't even pronounce the name Qantas correctly.
He pronounces it 'Qwarntas'
We all know it's 'Qwontas'
I suspect with the share price below $2 today, he will be getting the call soon
He pronounces it 'Qwarntas'
We all know it's 'Qwontas'
I suspect with the share price below $2 today, he will be getting the call soon
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 328
Likes: 20
From: Oz
Alan Joyce - give it away, give it away, give it away NOW!
Precipitous fall in shareholder value, unprecedentedly low employee engagement, unprecedented industrial strife - just give it away and let someone else have go Alan.
Discuss.
Discuss.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: The cloud
I can't tell if I'm a kingpin or a pauper...
Greedy little people in a sea of distress
Keep your more to receive your less
Unimpressed by material excess
lol oh so fitting
what I've got U gotta give it to your shareholders
what I've got u gotta give to employees
good song good song
Keep your more to receive your less
Unimpressed by material excess
lol oh so fitting
what I've got U gotta give it to your shareholders
what I've got u gotta give to employees
good song good song
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: Orstralya
If there was any further evidence that the board, or institutional shareholders, needed to immeadiately remove this out-of-his-depth and over-his-head CEO, it can be found in this mornings Plane Talking..........................
Qantas CEO continues to downtalk the brand and reverse the realities
June 7, 2011 – 7:55 am, by Ben Sandilands
Qantas is making a dismal spectacle of itself at the IATA conference at Singapore.
In this morning’s reports by invited and hosted media the group’s CEO, Alan Joyce, says he is not going to spend any more money on “the premium international operation until they (start) to return their cost of capital” (SMH) and will “reconsider new aircraft orders” (The Australian.)
In these reports he also signals a new communications strategy from Qantas to rubbish its own core brand, by describing Jetstar and the frequent flyer program as subsidising the full service operation.
This is a reversal of the realities of massive subsidies or transfers of assets from Qantas to Jetstar, which if these inputs were truthfully detailed, would show a very different situation in terms of the relative performances of the punitive Jetstar experience and the premium Qantas divisions.
There are also inconsistencies in what Joyce is reported to have said. While he claims to be reconsidering new orders and is not injecting new funds into the international Qantas division, he is still taking all of the undelivered A380 order, which if true means they are suddenly ‘free’.
These statements seem to belong to the same genre as those claiming the pilot union agreement for a 2.5 percent pay rise per annum over three years equals an unsustainable 26 percent cost impost. The only thing unsustainable about this is the arithmetic. The only way to get anywhere near 26 percent is to count recurring costs that are already present as a continuing cost of doing business, and have nothing to do with base pay.
This claim by management is about as credible as its submission to the Senate inquiry into pilot training and airline safety, in which Joyce failed to acknowledge that the reason why a Jetstar A320 nearly crashed at Melbourne Airport in 2007 was the result of improper changes to the approved flight manual procedure for flying a ‘go around’ and that he was the then CEO of that airline and responsible for the inferior and deeply flawed decisions taken by the carrier.
The burning questions this morning are why Joyce would slam his own premium brand and verbal its pilots and engineers at the leading international forum for airline managements only hours after the Qantas share price out-plunged the general retreat on the ASX?
Why does he rubbish the premium product which has been his responsibility for two years? Why does it describe its engineering and pilot unions as ‘rogue’ when their actions to date are lawful and fully within the prescriptions of Fair Work Australia, and are a consequence of an inability of management to secure a timely resolution of expiring industrial agreements.
One of the obvious reasons why the Qantas premium product is in trouble is that it isn’t competitively premium, which is his responsibility, and has a route structure which is variously inefficient or impracticable for many of the travellers that have crossed over to Emirates and Singapore Airlines, which is also his responsibility.
The latest act of management genius is a low frequency, range challenged flight to Dalls Fort Worth in a jet that can’t do the distance reliably, adds extra stops along the route for some passengers, and occasionally deprives them of their checked luggage as well as offering them a cabin amenity inferior to that on Qantas A380s.
Qantas may get soft media in Australia, and a soft ride from those who are indulged with free entry to the Chairmans Lounges. But Joyce is in a room in Singapore where has competitors can see right through him, and must wonder how much longer the airline will continue to provide them with easy pickings.
June 7, 2011 – 7:55 am, by Ben Sandilands
Qantas is making a dismal spectacle of itself at the IATA conference at Singapore.
In this morning’s reports by invited and hosted media the group’s CEO, Alan Joyce, says he is not going to spend any more money on “the premium international operation until they (start) to return their cost of capital” (SMH) and will “reconsider new aircraft orders” (The Australian.)
In these reports he also signals a new communications strategy from Qantas to rubbish its own core brand, by describing Jetstar and the frequent flyer program as subsidising the full service operation.
This is a reversal of the realities of massive subsidies or transfers of assets from Qantas to Jetstar, which if these inputs were truthfully detailed, would show a very different situation in terms of the relative performances of the punitive Jetstar experience and the premium Qantas divisions.
There are also inconsistencies in what Joyce is reported to have said. While he claims to be reconsidering new orders and is not injecting new funds into the international Qantas division, he is still taking all of the undelivered A380 order, which if true means they are suddenly ‘free’.
These statements seem to belong to the same genre as those claiming the pilot union agreement for a 2.5 percent pay rise per annum over three years equals an unsustainable 26 percent cost impost. The only thing unsustainable about this is the arithmetic. The only way to get anywhere near 26 percent is to count recurring costs that are already present as a continuing cost of doing business, and have nothing to do with base pay.
This claim by management is about as credible as its submission to the Senate inquiry into pilot training and airline safety, in which Joyce failed to acknowledge that the reason why a Jetstar A320 nearly crashed at Melbourne Airport in 2007 was the result of improper changes to the approved flight manual procedure for flying a ‘go around’ and that he was the then CEO of that airline and responsible for the inferior and deeply flawed decisions taken by the carrier.
The burning questions this morning are why Joyce would slam his own premium brand and verbal its pilots and engineers at the leading international forum for airline managements only hours after the Qantas share price out-plunged the general retreat on the ASX?
Why does he rubbish the premium product which has been his responsibility for two years? Why does it describe its engineering and pilot unions as ‘rogue’ when their actions to date are lawful and fully within the prescriptions of Fair Work Australia, and are a consequence of an inability of management to secure a timely resolution of expiring industrial agreements.
One of the obvious reasons why the Qantas premium product is in trouble is that it isn’t competitively premium, which is his responsibility, and has a route structure which is variously inefficient or impracticable for many of the travellers that have crossed over to Emirates and Singapore Airlines, which is also his responsibility.
The latest act of management genius is a low frequency, range challenged flight to Dalls Fort Worth in a jet that can’t do the distance reliably, adds extra stops along the route for some passengers, and occasionally deprives them of their checked luggage as well as offering them a cabin amenity inferior to that on Qantas A380s.
Qantas may get soft media in Australia, and a soft ride from those who are indulged with free entry to the Chairmans Lounges. But Joyce is in a room in Singapore where has competitors can see right through him, and must wonder how much longer the airline will continue to provide them with easy pickings.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: Australia
So it would seem the end game is near. It doesn't take Einstein to work out what is going on here, what a lot of posters here have been saying for a long time, once the parasites have gourged on the host and left it paralysed, I'm betting there will be some slight of hand whereby exco and the board separate j* from the group and then flog it off for a not insignificant sum.
What is the next move?
What is the next move?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 643
Likes: 8
From: The Bubble
There it is right there. The justification that Qantas will never operate the 787 and all future A330's will go to Jetstar in the mean time.
It's unbelievable that he can get away with that. Until 'they' start making money... They is YOU Alan. You can blame everyone else all you like for YOUR inadequacies if it makes you feel better, Borghetti has outsmarted you, you look like a chump championing the bogan carrier as the national carrier of this country.
It's unbelievable that he can get away with that. Until 'they' start making money... They is YOU Alan. You can blame everyone else all you like for YOUR inadequacies if it makes you feel better, Borghetti has outsmarted you, you look like a chump championing the bogan carrier as the national carrier of this country.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 190
Likes: 21
From: In the Trees
Oldmate i hope you are correct, but i think Joyce and Clifford are here to stay. There is a plan behind all this posturing and stupidity by the upper management. A good board and the investors would have given AJ and Clifford the boot already if there wasn't some underlying plan behind all of this angst. This whole episode should be front page news in the business end of town, but its VERY quiet. The pollies are very quiet too. Unfortunately unless some miracle occurs in the next month or so i think in 12 months time we will see a very different Roo in our skies, can't wait to see clifford and joyce hug and kiss at the equity buyout press meeting.
Unfortunately its the original employees of this great australian icon, the pilots and engineers, that seem to be the only people in the company that have the will and the means to see it survive.
Unfortunately its the original employees of this great australian icon, the pilots and engineers, that seem to be the only people in the company that have the will and the means to see it survive.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Waiting for the fire
I feel totally nauseated by this story. Why do we time and time again allow these munchkins pick off our history, experience, goodwill, and turn it into a line on a spreadsheet for some half-arsed investor group. QF is to Australia what tulips are to Holland, a part of our national psyche. What we were once proud of, we are now becoming increasingly more
embarrassed by. Excommunicate the leprechaun, at this rate the rain-man will never get to the tables in Vegas.
Pilots, Engineers, Bagchuckers, Checkies and CC, ya gotta win this fight for all of us Aussies, the people that still believe in the Aussie fair go.
We want our country back, and QF is part of this countries identity.
Good Luck.
OA
embarrassed by. Excommunicate the leprechaun, at this rate the rain-man will never get to the tables in Vegas.
Pilots, Engineers, Bagchuckers, Checkies and CC, ya gotta win this fight for all of us Aussies, the people that still believe in the Aussie fair go.
We want our country back, and QF is part of this countries identity.
Good Luck.
OA
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: australia
Where are they?
So where are the shareholders? The only way to topple this mob is to get the institutions together and vote them out. To rubbish your own brand in front of an international forum is almost treason.
Sunfish, indeed there is the reek of dastardly deeds here.
Sunfish, indeed there is the reek of dastardly deeds here.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: australia
This clown will be looking for a different circus by the end of the month.
Something smells about what is going on. I suspect Qantas is going to divest itself of International and sell it to private interests for a song.