BNE ATC Holding
Plenty of holding last night
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Fortunately, just about everybody seemed to be carrying adequate supplies of humour.
YBSU and YBCG = ILS...........yeah they would....I bet some were virtual ILS though
about time they invested in some infrastructure.For that matter, why does YBBN not have higher spec ILS
It only needs to be once a year........................................................ ......................
................bloody Brissy,who'd wanna go there anyway? 22/22 was the dry & wet bulb when we arrived,felt like it to...yukky sticky joint it is:-). Luckily the met man got it wrong again, no TS's just a light drizzle, but in the cockpit !
I loved it when I asked ahead enroute to BN can we expect much of a delay? (asked due TS's advertized) Nah pretty good maybe a couple of minutes.......15mins at Brissy's 2nd Airport...Blacka was a typical end result!!!
Oh well I guess we are in Australia
Wmk2
I loved it when I asked ahead enroute to BN can we expect much of a delay? (asked due TS's advertized) Nah pretty good maybe a couple of minutes.......15mins at Brissy's 2nd Airport...Blacka was a typical end result!!!
Oh well I guess we are in Australia
Wmk2
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P-Dubby, The last thing we as pilots want is you controllers trying to fly the aircraft for us. We need you to keep us in the loop of what is going on and what we can expect. STARS which include waypoints with sensible crossing heights and speeds would result in less grief and less talk for all of us. To get these numbers controllers and pilots need to sit down together and talk, something that has not happened for many years.
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As far as sitting down and talking, I agree. We see very few visitors these days.
I go out of Auckland for Sydney about once a roster, will this mean that my push back time in AUckland is controlled? I would have thought it better to have a ¨Time over Sydney¨requirement rather than a departure requirement.....or have I missed something?
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I can't really complain about BNE too much... never really get more than 5-10 holding unless the wx is really bad. ATC always try to squeeze us in on 14 even right on last light, which is nice of them. I guess the only thing I can say is that in some cases more advanced notice would be nice, where we don't have a slot time.
The folks in tower & app do good work with what limited resources they have, that's the way I see it anyway
The folks in tower & app do good work with what limited resources they have, that's the way I see it anyway
The list is growing in our abbreviated flying world.
CTMS
Metron/CDM
ATC
COBT
STARS
SIDS
CDM
ATFM
GDP
ASA
NOC
NOS
.............but wait there's more am sure!
Flying the actual plane is the easy bit about aviation, you can teach monkey's to fly but to remember all of this crap would take a Philadelphia lawyer with two brains!
Wmk2
CTMS
Metron/CDM
ATC
COBT
STARS
SIDS
CDM
ATFM
GDP
ASA
NOC
NOS
.............but wait there's more am sure!
Flying the actual plane is the easy bit about aviation, you can teach monkey's to fly but to remember all of this crap would take a Philadelphia lawyer with two brains!
Wmk2
I totally understand why pilots get frustrated thinking they're being messed around by controllers. I think its a combination of the whole process being so dynamic, and the pilot hearing what's happening but not knowing what the ATC is thinking / doing. Wouldn't it be nice if we COULD say arrive over this point at this time and everyone would flow into the airport like a zipper, in fact it wouldn't because I'd need a new job. I flew to NZAA recently with a local crew I knew, we flew down wind for 05R did two left hand orbits then vectored 20nm down wind to join a line of jets coming in from the Tasman. I talked with the furious crew after we landed. He couldn't understand why if we left on our CTOT we didn't go straight in. I'm not sure of the situation in YBBN, but in NZ if the visibility was 1500m they would have to protect the missed approach for CAT C aircraft. Meaning if there are departures as well as arrivals there has to be something like 10nm between arrivals as the departure has to be rolling before the arrival reaches 4 DME. This obviously means the runway can handle only half normal, even though low vis ops aren't in use. I'm not an AA controller so I don't know the exact figures but you get the idea. Perhaps this maybe the case in BN also.
Hey guys, slightly off topic, but still involving Brissy ATC. My question regards noise abatement procedures before 6am.
Why are 737/320's allowed to depart off runway 19, but the dash8/ATR's are forced to wait until 6am. I haven't found any noise data, but I think it would be a safe guess that a 737/320 would make more noise than a turbo prop?..
All I can find is:
Local traffic regulations:
"6. ICAO chapter 2 ACFT BTN 1200-2000UTC.
Unless directed otherwise by ATC, at the time of operation, all ICAO chapter 2 ACFT shall:
a. Land RWY 19;
b. Take-off RWY 01;
c. Take-off RWY 19 NOT permitted."
and, from Brisbanes noise abatement procedures:
"2.2 - Departing aircraft
(a) Departing Runway 19:
- Non-jet propelled aircraft will normally follow radar-based SID's.
-During the period 1200 - 2000 UTC all aircraft will be routed, as far as possible, clear of noise sensitive areas."
Why are 737/320's allowed to depart off runway 19, but the dash8/ATR's are forced to wait until 6am. I haven't found any noise data, but I think it would be a safe guess that a 737/320 would make more noise than a turbo prop?..
All I can find is:
Local traffic regulations:
"6. ICAO chapter 2 ACFT BTN 1200-2000UTC.
Unless directed otherwise by ATC, at the time of operation, all ICAO chapter 2 ACFT shall:
a. Land RWY 19;
b. Take-off RWY 01;
c. Take-off RWY 19 NOT permitted."
and, from Brisbanes noise abatement procedures:
"2.2 - Departing aircraft
(a) Departing Runway 19:
- Non-jet propelled aircraft will normally follow radar-based SID's.
-During the period 1200 - 2000 UTC all aircraft will be routed, as far as possible, clear of noise sensitive areas."
Chapter 2 aircraft were not permitted to operate in Oz after 1 Apr 2002. Air Niugini may have operate their F28s for a short while after that on a concession.
The B737s and A320s operating in Oz are Chapter 3.
I don't know why Brissie still refer to Chapter 2 aircraft or F28 in their ERSA entry, since they don't fly here any more.
The B737s and A320s operating in Oz are Chapter 3.
I don't know why Brissie still refer to Chapter 2 aircraft or F28 in their ERSA entry, since they don't fly here any more.
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Runway 19 takeoffs go over my house. Turboprops make a far more obvious and annoying noise, especially at night. I won't comment on whether they are actually louder by dB.
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Not sure about turbos being forced to wait until after 6am. If 19 is the duty runway then so be it. Normal procedure is to use 01 for departures and 19 for arrivals between 10pm-6am, unless wet runway or 10kts+ downwind. During southern state daylight savings 5am-6am, Rwy01 is duty due to number of jet moves heading south combined with inbounds. But..... if runway 19 is on the Atis, if runway 14/32 is suitable, turbos may be given that runway for departure as it is more "noise abatable'y" preferable than 19. I guess if rwy14 was suitable for a dash8 departure, even though jets are departing rwy19, and the dash8 requests 19, they may be made to wait until the noise abatement period is over ie 6am due to rwy14 being available.
Yeah sorry, it only becomes an issue if runway 19 is the duty runway.
Runways 14/32 weren't nominated on the ATIS. Runway 14 is usually offered along with the option of holding at 19 until 6am when we call for taxi. If we're on time our first departure is around 530 if we're on time, thats rare and are usually calling ready 545/550. Because those early departures go north and north west, to taxi to 14 (on narrow taxiways, which impose a 15kt speed limit on our operation) or hold 10/15mins for 19 is not much different.
Runways 14/32 weren't nominated on the ATIS. Runway 14 is usually offered along with the option of holding at 19 until 6am when we call for taxi. If we're on time our first departure is around 530 if we're on time, thats rare and are usually calling ready 545/550. Because those early departures go north and north west, to taxi to 14 (on narrow taxiways, which impose a 15kt speed limit on our operation) or hold 10/15mins for 19 is not much different.
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Thanks P-Dubby for sharing.
Starting next month June and increasing through to September a further 324 movements a week are scheduled by the airlines to operate into and out of YBBN .Tuesday will be the biggest growth with a extra 66 movements a day planned.
As you well know Thursday and Friday's are the busiest days with around 625-630 movements on Thursday and a little less on Fridays.Both those days will gain around 45-50 movements a day by September..
Starting next month June and increasing through to September a further 324 movements a week are scheduled by the airlines to operate into and out of YBBN .Tuesday will be the biggest growth with a extra 66 movements a day planned.
As you well know Thursday and Friday's are the busiest days with around 625-630 movements on Thursday and a little less on Fridays.Both those days will gain around 45-50 movements a day by September..