Qantas and Its Appalling Brand Management
SIUYA,
fair enough, I'l take that. I probably should have said something along the lines of ' I don't want to tar all CC with the same brush or detract from the efforts of the CC who maintain a positive attitude'.
But
is a bit over the top in my opinion. The reality is that this crew created a negative environment onboard and failed to maintain basic manners even when he pax were perfectly polite and calm and it happens more often now than it used to, if you are offended by this thats fine, remember, there is nothing wrong with being offended every now and then, same as being happy or angry, just make sure you don't focus heavily on it if you want to be pleasant company for those around you 
Have a good one mate.
You DID have a go at the crew Framer
But
in a very offensive manner too
Have a good one mate.
framer...
You said:
However, you go on to justify your previous post by saying:
In the post that I referred to, you said:
I think you need to say that in your opinion, the crewmembers that you were near created a negative opinion, rather than tarring the entire crew with the same brush.
I'm certainly hope that you followed your own advice and contained your 'bugger off' attitude to those around you at the time so that they had a pleasant trip.
I will, thank you very much. You too. 
You said:
'...I don't want to tar all CC with the same brush or detract from the efforts of the CC who maintain a positive attitude'.
'...The reality is that this crew [my bolding] created a negative environment onboard and failed to maintain basic manners blah blah blah...'
'The crew [my bolding] I was near were a couple of blokes in late forties, couple of women in late forties or early fifties and I couldn't help thinking to myself " If this is all a bit too tiring for you, bugger off and get another job 'cause you're making my day slightly worse" [sic]
I'm certainly hope that you followed your own advice and contained your 'bugger off' attitude to those around you at the time so that they had a pleasant trip.
Have a good one mate.
I've had the same negative experience on Qantas.
It started with an underwhelming business class trip to LAX and has been followed by a succession of domestic flights with less than stellar crew attitudes, let alone service.
To be fair, flashes of the "old" helpful, tactful, skillful Qantas service sometimes breaks through, like when stupid Sunfish was late for a flight............"You don't need to run Mr. Sunfish because the aircraft can't leave without me and I'll be walking behind you."
However the corporate dead hand seems to be squashing the life out of the airline and the crews can't keep from acting out their frustration sometimes.
It started with an underwhelming business class trip to LAX and has been followed by a succession of domestic flights with less than stellar crew attitudes, let alone service.
To be fair, flashes of the "old" helpful, tactful, skillful Qantas service sometimes breaks through, like when stupid Sunfish was late for a flight............"You don't need to run Mr. Sunfish because the aircraft can't leave without me and I'll be walking behind you."
However the corporate dead hand seems to be squashing the life out of the airline and the crews can't keep from acting out their frustration sometimes.
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New Singapore Qantas
Mr Joyce has made a mess of running the "Qantas Group" so far. Share price has plummeted, no dividend, at war with 34,000 of it's 35,000 employees, over $80 million of fines for corrupt management practices, poor aircraft fleet mix, lost premium brand advantage status to Virgin Australia etc, etc.
How about managing Australian Qantas well, before worrying about starting an expensive, risky Singaporean Qantas?
How about managing Australian Qantas well, before worrying about starting an expensive, risky Singaporean Qantas?
Let me guess, the 777 will be the perfect fit for the new singaporean Qantas. The company will then compare how efficient it is compared to Australian Qantas and use it as an excuse to wind it down further.....
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Well this should be fun, the decaying Rat competing with SQ on their home turf. Wonder what hallucinogenic medication the RAT Execs are on because I would sure like some.
It is laughable that a review to revamp premium brand comes up with this outcome. They simply do not understand Brand value and obviously do not care.
How would you like to sit at the next Govt meeting where SQ ask for rights to the Pacific route. They must be laughing all the way to the bank and lining up their aircraft for redeployment.
Then again, seeing RAT Execs claiming to have some proprietary rights to OZ routes now seems to be fast losing any basis in fact and government tolerance must surely evaporate.
Dick Smith where are you!!
It is laughable that a review to revamp premium brand comes up with this outcome. They simply do not understand Brand value and obviously do not care.
How would you like to sit at the next Govt meeting where SQ ask for rights to the Pacific route. They must be laughing all the way to the bank and lining up their aircraft for redeployment.
Then again, seeing RAT Execs claiming to have some proprietary rights to OZ routes now seems to be fast losing any basis in fact and government tolerance must surely evaporate.
Dick Smith where are you!!
I'm certainly hope that you followed your own advice and contained your 'bugger off' attitude to those around you at the time so that they had a pleasant trip.
Let me guess, the 777 will be the perfect fit for the new singaporean Qantas. The company will then compare how efficient it is compared to Australian Qantas and use it as an excuse to wind it down further.....
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So you would all like QF to fail , Sunfish and that idiot in BNE Brisby on Coolt would be overjoyed , well sunfish would but BSc might have an hangover when it wakes up without a job . And still cheering BS for his bitter tripe that he writes . Ah well , solidarity forever , solidarity forever , solidarity forever for the union makes us strong . Go comrades!
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uni74
I think you have got it wrong mate....we dont want QF to fail we want it to continue and get better.But the way we see it is that the management want it to fail so they can get a new crew of pilots/engineers/flight attendents and ramp workers in at a lower wage to operate the airline.....same as jet*.Well from reading the posts on pprune I think it wont happen without a fight.
Mostly the guys and girls that work for QF are proud and willing to help ....sure you get the angry ones who have had a bad day but most want to be helpful...we ALL have tried to be resonable in our negoations but are constanly meet with NO's from the company.....as others have stated WTF is going on in the board room do they not read this forum[yes I know its a rumor forum]but its from the people who work at Qantas...and in most cases for a long time so WE know whats happening...come on get real and talk to the ALAEA and work something out before its too LATE
Mostly the guys and girls that work for QF are proud and willing to help ....sure you get the angry ones who have had a bad day but most want to be helpful...we ALL have tried to be resonable in our negoations but are constanly meet with NO's from the company.....as others have stated WTF is going on in the board room do they not read this forum[yes I know its a rumor forum]but its from the people who work at Qantas...and in most cases for a long time so WE know whats happening...come on get real and talk to the ALAEA and work something out before its too LATE
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Unionist, if you think we want to see Qantas fail, then you are either deliberately misinterpreting our posts or you are just plain stupid.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Engineers, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Baggage Handlers.....we are in it for the long term. NONE of us want to see Qantas fail.
Some people, however, are in it for the short term, to screw as much as they can before they leave. There are people far higher up the ladder who are ensuring Qantas will fail.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Engineers, Pilots, Cabin Crew, Baggage Handlers.....we are in it for the long term. NONE of us want to see Qantas fail.
Some people, however, are in it for the short term, to screw as much as they can before they leave. There are people far higher up the ladder who are ensuring Qantas will fail.
If I were a clever CEO of EK, Singa, etihadit, and even Guitar, I would be looking at poaching the Q drivers.
Think about it, all it would take is being based at their original port, eg mel, syd, bne, offer them more coin and more days off, and hope to steal 70% of the A380, A330 and 747 drivers and you would shut Q down with in a couple of months. I am sure that a dead rat would mean massive increase in freq for these airlines so the work would be there for the new recruits if they pulled it off.
I would guess the money spent on poaching the drivers would be money well spent if your competition collapsed. How many A380 drivers would it take to stuff them up?
Think about it, all it would take is being based at their original port, eg mel, syd, bne, offer them more coin and more days off, and hope to steal 70% of the A380, A330 and 747 drivers and you would shut Q down with in a couple of months. I am sure that a dead rat would mean massive increase in freq for these airlines so the work would be there for the new recruits if they pulled it off.
I would guess the money spent on poaching the drivers would be money well spent if your competition collapsed. How many A380 drivers would it take to stuff them up?
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Q ?
Having been directly attacked by the Q EA negotiating team - answer is NO to anything put up. It seems apparent that they are on a course of self destruction.
They complain the International arm is loosing money, can't compete etc.
Domestic arm is suffering.
Regionals are lumbered in with J* in financial reports - supposedly doing well.
It would be nice to see the real status of J* as an item in the end of year report as a stand alone.
How many times do the J* pax get on forwarded to their destination by the full service arm. Big bonus there, how would the premium pax react if it went the other way - not well.
J* being handed routes and aircraft to forge ahead - of course not.
Could they have survived if the 767's went there instead of the 330's to open the cheap holiday markets - I think not.
Q now trying another venture, meanwhile all others if you believe the PR machine failing, lets stick our fingers in the FI/FO mining area in WA.
So now we have a finger (at least I think its a finger) in all pies:
International
Domestic
LCC
Regionals
Charter
and of course freight (hope they made more money than the fines).
Would it ever be returned to the people I think not as Fed and State Gov't selling of all assets to bolster the budgets due to same management skills. All tared by same brush. Why do these ordinary working people need more money (wage rises & job security). Could it be as reported in a small section in a sydney paper 1/2 million people in default on their electricity bills. An essential service after being privatized is increasing in cost to the consumer at an alarming rate. Another rise in QLD of 17% June 1st, must be to cover the execs wages. Probably mates of those who sold the service to them.
They complain the International arm is loosing money, can't compete etc.
Domestic arm is suffering.
Regionals are lumbered in with J* in financial reports - supposedly doing well.
It would be nice to see the real status of J* as an item in the end of year report as a stand alone.
How many times do the J* pax get on forwarded to their destination by the full service arm. Big bonus there, how would the premium pax react if it went the other way - not well.
J* being handed routes and aircraft to forge ahead - of course not.
Could they have survived if the 767's went there instead of the 330's to open the cheap holiday markets - I think not.
Q now trying another venture, meanwhile all others if you believe the PR machine failing, lets stick our fingers in the FI/FO mining area in WA.
So now we have a finger (at least I think its a finger) in all pies:
International
Domestic
LCC
Regionals
Charter
and of course freight (hope they made more money than the fines).
Would it ever be returned to the people I think not as Fed and State Gov't selling of all assets to bolster the budgets due to same management skills. All tared by same brush. Why do these ordinary working people need more money (wage rises & job security). Could it be as reported in a small section in a sydney paper 1/2 million people in default on their electricity bills. An essential service after being privatized is increasing in cost to the consumer at an alarming rate. Another rise in QLD of 17% June 1st, must be to cover the execs wages. Probably mates of those who sold the service to them.
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SMH 22-5 Qantas staff and management on collision course over outsourcing and safety.
Qantas staff and management on collision course over outsourcing and safety
Wow, Great Job Adele. 
The levels of toxicity between staff and Qantas will hit new highs this week if the international pilots union lodges an application with Fair Work Australia to allow it to instigate protected industrial action.
If the application proceeds, and is followed in four weeks with a ballot by the pilots to take action, it will be the first industrial action taken by Qantas pilots in 45 years.
For the pilots to reach this point shows how far the relationship between staff and management has deteriorated. An application is expected to be lodged by the Australian and International Pilots Association tomorrow.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The first stage of industrial action is expected to include a work-to-rule campaign and an overtime ban, which would result in big disruptions as nothing would run on time.
A similar campaign was conducted in 2008 when the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association worked to rule, which resulted in widespread delays on the airline's services. The engineers association is on the brink of a new campaign after winning approval from the Fair Work Australia earlier this month.
It opted to delay any industrial action for the next few weeks after discovering that the airline had some "unexpected aircraft unserviceabilities" of which many are engine-related.
The pilots are seeking guaranteed flying hours after the expansion of the airline's budget carrier, Jetstar, lowered labour costs.
The big concern of the pilots and engineers is the trend by the company to outsource jobs.
For instance, Jetstar flight attendants who are hired in Thailand are paid a fraction of the Australian minimum salary. Jetstar pilots are paid less than Qantas pilots and have fewer conditions, and the company is outsourcing some of its maintenance.
Nobody denies the Qantas boss, Alan Joyce, inherited a tough gig: record high fuel prices, a blowout in debt from the need to replace its ageing fleet over the next decade, vigorous competition on the international sector from carriers such as Emirates and a share price that is trading just above its issue price more than 15 years ago.
Qantas has one of the highest cash operating expenditures among regional peers. To date, it has been able to offset this with its yields - an industry gauge of profitability.
But its yields are under attack. Intensifying competition in the shape of lower prices, better-quality products and a perception that the company is running down the Qantas brand, is forcing those yields down.
With some of its bigger institutional shareholders putting pressure on the Qantas board to restore dividends and lift the share price, Joyce and the board have used wages and outsourcing as a key way to cut costs and maintain margins and yields.
But Joyce's handling of staff and the disengagement and poor morale that is rife throughout the company cannot be underestimated. Nor can the erosion of customer service in an effort to cut costs.
Who will win the industrial dispute will boil down to who plays the PR game best. Customers hate disruptions to their travel plans, even by a couple of hours. If they think the EBA claims by the international pilots are outlandish then they will lose patience with an airline that is already suffering from brand damage after a string of midair emergencies last year and a decision by Qantas to reduce the quality of service to a point where it is being destroyed by better product being flown more directly to more destinations.
However, if they share the view that the quality and safety of Qantas is in jeopardy - and there is a growing belief that it is - they will be sympathetic to the unions in their endeavours.
One pilot said: "Qantas pilots don't believe a word that comes out of the words of management. They have been lied to for too many years … even Jetstar pilots have come to realise the same thing. No-one is safe from this rapacious management, least of all the Qantas safety culture.'' Tough words that weren't helped by news the company intends to introduce a business class product with Jetstar in Asia rather than Qantas.
With so much discontent it is not surprising the results of a staff ''engagement'' survey have been suppressed because they were worse than the previous survey some 12 months ago.
What is fascinating about the industrial relations disputes is that the toxicity has spread inside the company. One of the key architects
of Qantas's industrial relations strategy is an outsider, former ACTU official Ian Oldmeadow, who is renowned in union circles for being confrontational.
During calm times it makes the job of a human resources manager easy to outsource key aspects of industrial relations but when things turn sour, as they have now, it highlights the need for internal control of the policy.
As one staff member said: "Qantas always cries poor, however, they pay over $10 million a year on consultant fees. There is joke inside the business that Qantas is a consultants' Disneyland - 'We make Your Dreams of Greed Come True'.''
(my bold)
If the application proceeds, and is followed in four weeks with a ballot by the pilots to take action, it will be the first industrial action taken by Qantas pilots in 45 years.
For the pilots to reach this point shows how far the relationship between staff and management has deteriorated. An application is expected to be lodged by the Australian and International Pilots Association tomorrow.
Advertisement: Story continues below
The first stage of industrial action is expected to include a work-to-rule campaign and an overtime ban, which would result in big disruptions as nothing would run on time.
A similar campaign was conducted in 2008 when the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association worked to rule, which resulted in widespread delays on the airline's services. The engineers association is on the brink of a new campaign after winning approval from the Fair Work Australia earlier this month.
It opted to delay any industrial action for the next few weeks after discovering that the airline had some "unexpected aircraft unserviceabilities" of which many are engine-related.
The pilots are seeking guaranteed flying hours after the expansion of the airline's budget carrier, Jetstar, lowered labour costs.
The big concern of the pilots and engineers is the trend by the company to outsource jobs.
For instance, Jetstar flight attendants who are hired in Thailand are paid a fraction of the Australian minimum salary. Jetstar pilots are paid less than Qantas pilots and have fewer conditions, and the company is outsourcing some of its maintenance.
Nobody denies the Qantas boss, Alan Joyce, inherited a tough gig: record high fuel prices, a blowout in debt from the need to replace its ageing fleet over the next decade, vigorous competition on the international sector from carriers such as Emirates and a share price that is trading just above its issue price more than 15 years ago.
Qantas has one of the highest cash operating expenditures among regional peers. To date, it has been able to offset this with its yields - an industry gauge of profitability.
But its yields are under attack. Intensifying competition in the shape of lower prices, better-quality products and a perception that the company is running down the Qantas brand, is forcing those yields down.
With some of its bigger institutional shareholders putting pressure on the Qantas board to restore dividends and lift the share price, Joyce and the board have used wages and outsourcing as a key way to cut costs and maintain margins and yields.
But Joyce's handling of staff and the disengagement and poor morale that is rife throughout the company cannot be underestimated. Nor can the erosion of customer service in an effort to cut costs.
Who will win the industrial dispute will boil down to who plays the PR game best. Customers hate disruptions to their travel plans, even by a couple of hours. If they think the EBA claims by the international pilots are outlandish then they will lose patience with an airline that is already suffering from brand damage after a string of midair emergencies last year and a decision by Qantas to reduce the quality of service to a point where it is being destroyed by better product being flown more directly to more destinations.
However, if they share the view that the quality and safety of Qantas is in jeopardy - and there is a growing belief that it is - they will be sympathetic to the unions in their endeavours.
One pilot said: "Qantas pilots don't believe a word that comes out of the words of management. They have been lied to for too many years … even Jetstar pilots have come to realise the same thing. No-one is safe from this rapacious management, least of all the Qantas safety culture.'' Tough words that weren't helped by news the company intends to introduce a business class product with Jetstar in Asia rather than Qantas.
With so much discontent it is not surprising the results of a staff ''engagement'' survey have been suppressed because they were worse than the previous survey some 12 months ago.
What is fascinating about the industrial relations disputes is that the toxicity has spread inside the company. One of the key architects
of Qantas's industrial relations strategy is an outsider, former ACTU official Ian Oldmeadow, who is renowned in union circles for being confrontational.
During calm times it makes the job of a human resources manager easy to outsource key aspects of industrial relations but when things turn sour, as they have now, it highlights the need for internal control of the policy.
As one staff member said: "Qantas always cries poor, however, they pay over $10 million a year on consultant fees. There is joke inside the business that Qantas is a consultants' Disneyland - 'We make Your Dreams of Greed Come True'.''
(my bold)
Last edited by TIMA9X; 22nd May 2011 at 16:32.
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Qantas Changes Consultants
Scott Rochfort
May 23, 2011 The already fractious relationship between Qantas and its 32,500-strong workforce is set to be tested even further amid talk the airline has hired the services of a management consultancy company known for its radical surgery methods.
The airline, which for years has used Boston Consulting Group, is rumoured to have invited Bain & Company into its offices to prepare a few pie charts.
The appointment of Bain is not likely to go down well with Qantas's heavily unionised workforce. The blurb on the management consultancy's website notes: ''In this challenging environment, airlines can take steps to improve their business - but it requires decisive action.
''Bain's approach to consulting - focused on strategies with the highest impact and effective implementation - is well-suited to the airline industry, where there is no time to waste.''
Bain boasts that the returns of its airline clients ''have outpaced the S&P by 4 to 1''. Bain might be able to apply some of the expertise it built up helping the now defunct Ansett.
''Bain's expertise in airline consulting includes work in strategy, mergers and acquisitions, turnarounds, fleet and network optimisation, pricing, labour relations, operations restructuring and business plan formation,'' says the website.
Dont expect to see the results of the last staff enegagement survey.It was worse than last year's and is being repressed
May 23, 2011 The already fractious relationship between Qantas and its 32,500-strong workforce is set to be tested even further amid talk the airline has hired the services of a management consultancy company known for its radical surgery methods.
The airline, which for years has used Boston Consulting Group, is rumoured to have invited Bain & Company into its offices to prepare a few pie charts.
The appointment of Bain is not likely to go down well with Qantas's heavily unionised workforce. The blurb on the management consultancy's website notes: ''In this challenging environment, airlines can take steps to improve their business - but it requires decisive action.
''Bain's approach to consulting - focused on strategies with the highest impact and effective implementation - is well-suited to the airline industry, where there is no time to waste.''
Bain boasts that the returns of its airline clients ''have outpaced the S&P by 4 to 1''. Bain might be able to apply some of the expertise it built up helping the now defunct Ansett.
''Bain's expertise in airline consulting includes work in strategy, mergers and acquisitions, turnarounds, fleet and network optimisation, pricing, labour relations, operations restructuring and business plan formation,'' says the website.
Dont expect to see the results of the last staff enegagement survey.It was worse than last year's and is being repressed
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At Last
The media is catching on.The story of mismanagment by Qantas is finally gaining traction.Perhaps the tide of public opinion will turn now that the truth is being exposed
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Why Do They Bother?
It has been suggested that the only reason these surveys are done is to gauge how successful managment are at pissing off employees.
So far its about the only thing they are having any success with
We are all really really pissed off
So far its about the only thing they are having any success with
We are all really really pissed off
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Does anyone think that these so called industrial relations consultants that come at great expense aim for a fast resolution to EBA negotiations?
They drag these negotiations out as long as they can. They aim to create as much friction between management and employees as possible.
Qantas management are being taken for an expensive ride and aren't smart enough to realise it.
First aim for prospective consultants is to win work from a large organisation.
Once hired their aim is to convince the organisation of their importance and recieve on going work or be put on a full time retainer.
If negotiations are over quickly, consultants do not seem as necessary and do not receive the vast sums of money they desire.
They drag these negotiations out as long as they can. They aim to create as much friction between management and employees as possible.
Qantas management are being taken for an expensive ride and aren't smart enough to realise it.
First aim for prospective consultants is to win work from a large organisation.
Once hired their aim is to convince the organisation of their importance and recieve on going work or be put on a full time retainer.
If negotiations are over quickly, consultants do not seem as necessary and do not receive the vast sums of money they desire.
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Bain will do nothing more than continue the current venomous agenda and prop up the ailing Exec M'ment with a swag of reports to say they are doing a good job.
Of course for the ailing Exec M'ment, Bain will in time be another "RR pass the parcel of blame" when it all crashes and burns.
Every corner of the business (even the outsourced cleaners) are totally dismayed - even at the height of Rupert's handiwork with the British newspapers there was not this level of disengagement and distrust.
There are millions that can be saved and put on the bottom line by 30 June - all it takes is a little empowerment and a management that shows some genuine respect for the skills, experience and passion that the majority of employees have.
But like most, I am not going to go the extra mile today if all it will do is prop up the wallets of Joyce Worthless and Co., who have no passion for the airline other than their own self applause.
AT
Wonder if Bain will suggest giving the likes of Oldmeadow and the other hangers on the boot in order to save a few $............ probably not.
Of course for the ailing Exec M'ment, Bain will in time be another "RR pass the parcel of blame" when it all crashes and burns.
Every corner of the business (even the outsourced cleaners) are totally dismayed - even at the height of Rupert's handiwork with the British newspapers there was not this level of disengagement and distrust.
There are millions that can be saved and put on the bottom line by 30 June - all it takes is a little empowerment and a management that shows some genuine respect for the skills, experience and passion that the majority of employees have.
But like most, I am not going to go the extra mile today if all it will do is prop up the wallets of Joyce Worthless and Co., who have no passion for the airline other than their own self applause.
AT
Wonder if Bain will suggest giving the likes of Oldmeadow and the other hangers on the boot in order to save a few $............ probably not.