Qantas and Its Appalling Brand Management
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: new york
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
let's nationalise Qantas
You folks remember that QF senior mangagement always complained that other airline like SQ has so much advantage over QF because its government ownership, it's the same old crying song covering their being incompetent so they can squeeze the last dollar out off hard working people in Qantas.
Please join me and shout: why not renationalise Qantas then! Airline should be run like utility company, it is providing the most basic service for the nation: air transportation, it shoud be operated for safety not for private profit, it is people's lives we are talking about here!
Please join me and shout: why not renationalise Qantas then! Airline should be run like utility company, it is providing the most basic service for the nation: air transportation, it shoud be operated for safety not for private profit, it is people's lives we are talking about here!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by timer88
Please join me and shout: why not renationalise Qantas then!
In other words, the greatest asset strip in Australian corporate history. Just a theory.
Ring any alarm bells?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Timer88, I'm not having a go at you 
.
What I am trying to say, is the cry for nationalisation is exactly what they want. Nothing would make management happier than to loot all the good stuff for themselves in a private company, and re-nationalise the international operation. This is the whole point of the last 30 years (in general, not just airlines), it is the greatest asset strip & privatisation of public wealth by a few in history.
What you would like to see and what the exec's want are mutually exclusive, it is a zero sum game.
.What I am trying to say, is the cry for nationalisation is exactly what they want. Nothing would make management happier than to loot all the good stuff for themselves in a private company, and re-nationalise the international operation. This is the whole point of the last 30 years (in general, not just airlines), it is the greatest asset strip & privatisation of public wealth by a few in history.
What you would like to see and what the exec's want are mutually exclusive, it is a zero sum game.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If QF were going broke, the possibility of government taking over QF has become more slim after Virgin Blue became Virgin Australia.
Hang on a minute, bail out QF ? Not a bad idea, great way to create even further debt and while the government is at it - how about every pensioner/retiree household recieve a free kevlar mail box out front of the house/unit/retirement village, the next generation or a hundred can pay that debt off also....
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apology accepted.
Is it so crazy, am I the only one that thinks along these lines? Crazy and outside the box thinking is how the swindle is likely to be pulled off by the exec's.
Is it so crazy, am I the only one that thinks along these lines? Crazy and outside the box thinking is how the swindle is likely to be pulled off by the exec's.
Originally Posted by stalinsuglybrother
Whatever 6719,
The Qantas (executives) goal is to bypass the unions, offshore the business and line their own pockets with millions and retire to Rio ( or San Fran).
The Orangestar/Newstar scenario allows this to happen.
You are right the public and the government won't want to allow this to happen.
However, if Qantas mainline is made to look like such a basket case, the Government would be put in a position to save it, which will probably mean lifting foreign ownership as the Government will not financially save Qantas. The Government will however be open to suggestions with the quashing of the QF sales act being the first. Saving an Icon will be used as an excuse to lift these restrictions.
So who buys it? Well you can take it from there..................
The Qantas (executives) goal is to bypass the unions, offshore the business and line their own pockets with millions and retire to Rio ( or San Fran).
The Orangestar/Newstar scenario allows this to happen.
You are right the public and the government won't want to allow this to happen.
However, if Qantas mainline is made to look like such a basket case, the Government would be put in a position to save it, which will probably mean lifting foreign ownership as the Government will not financially save Qantas. The Government will however be open to suggestions with the quashing of the QF sales act being the first. Saving an Icon will be used as an excuse to lift these restrictions.
So who buys it? Well you can take it from there..................
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Exiled in the Ukraine
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Posted by Timer88
I'm pretty sure AN was called "Ansett Australia" when they went under. 
If QF were going broke, the possibility of government taking over QF has become more slim after Virgin Blue became Virgin Australia.
Right or wrong I don't think putting "Australia" on the virgin brand would help a government bailout of VA (I don't think they will ever need it anyway). Most Australian's seem to connect the Virgin brand as a plaything of a RB, and don't really see it as part of australian culture.
On the other hand Qantas, whether you like it or not, is seen as "owned" by all australians, part of the culture. Its seen as our national airline, and therefore a bit of a political football. Would the government buy it out if it goes belly up? Who knows with this mob. Maybe they better start thinking about it, because on the inside things aren't looking real flash at the moment.
On the other hand Qantas, whether you like it or not, is seen as "owned" by all australians, part of the culture. Its seen as our national airline, and therefore a bit of a political football. Would the government buy it out if it goes belly up? Who knows with this mob. Maybe they better start thinking about it, because on the inside things aren't looking real flash at the moment.
Qantas - airline of choice
Have just experienced the joys of QF business class.
The total quality of service in economy class in any of EK, SIA, Cathay etc is better than QF business class - and this is without the 'special' cabin staff attitude that seems so particular to QF when you ask for appear in the galley to ask for a drink, or have forgotten what was on the menu.
The total quality of service in economy class in any of EK, SIA, Cathay etc is better than QF business class - and this is without the 'special' cabin staff attitude that seems so particular to QF when you ask for appear in the galley to ask for a drink, or have forgotten what was on the menu.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apart from VB now being Virgin Australia, I haven't seen them really do much in the times of need like Qantas does time and time again.
When the sh1t hits the fan and you are stuck overseas with a ticket on other airlines and not Qantas, then at times like these Qantas does make you feel a little proud. Even when they became a private company they continued this.
For all the crap that QF management have caused this iconic company this is one thing they have all continued to do.
Just because Borghetti put Australia in his airlines name doesn't give it overnight kudos in trying times.
Also if QF fell over tomorrow I don't think VB would have the ability to pick up the slack in a short amount of time.
Having said all this, it would be great to have QF management that cared more about what they had and could have again rather than short changing every passenger and staff member for the sake of a few greedy shareholders.
When the sh1t hits the fan and you are stuck overseas with a ticket on other airlines and not Qantas, then at times like these Qantas does make you feel a little proud. Even when they became a private company they continued this.
For all the crap that QF management have caused this iconic company this is one thing they have all continued to do.
Just because Borghetti put Australia in his airlines name doesn't give it overnight kudos in trying times.
Also if QF fell over tomorrow I don't think VB would have the ability to pick up the slack in a short amount of time.
Having said all this, it would be great to have QF management that cared more about what they had and could have again rather than short changing every passenger and staff member for the sake of a few greedy shareholders.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Ramble on!
Ihave also unfortunately experienced it (for the last time I add), just disgraceful/ no idea / cranky grandmas and ladyboys. the catering crap, poor aircraft interior and IFE and the tickets well overpriced! Sorry I maybe shooting from the hip but I am a full fair paying punter and it should matter!
Ihave also unfortunately experienced it (for the last time I add), just disgraceful/ no idea / cranky grandmas and ladyboys. the catering crap, poor aircraft interior and IFE and the tickets well overpriced! Sorry I maybe shooting from the hip but I am a full fair paying punter and it should matter!
It is a bit rough now days I agree. I caught a 76 last week (economy) and the crew were bordering on surly. Definately not cheeful and helpful. When I asked for a drink the response was juuuuust inside downright rude. The crew I was near were a couple of blokes in late forties, couple of women in late forties or early fifties and I couldn't help thinking to myself " If this is all a bit too tiring for you, bugger off and get another job 'cause you're making my day slightly worse"
The flight was fine but the clapped out IFE screen at an 80 degree angle from my seat about two meters away was a dissapointment. Definately not worth the money.
The flight was fine but the clapped out IFE screen at an 80 degree angle from my seat about two meters away was a dissapointment. Definately not worth the money.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brisbane
Age: 49
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't forget, clapped out old aircraft without decent IFE is the fault of staff. That's right, it has nothing to do with the failure of management to invest in the fleet or to innovate their product.... couldn't do that.... like virgin.
I'm totally with you on that. I even think that the attitudes of the cabin crew can be traced back to management style......to a degree. I understand that they may be annoyed with some of their conditions etc, but I also think that the individuals are responsible for creating the atmosphere on board and that it takes professionalism to hide away their frustrations and create that atmosphere.....or at least not create the opposite. If it's got to the stage where they are so angry that they are incapable of doing that, then I will fly with a different airline where things have not reached that stage. Not having a go at the crew, just how I see it. Sad really.
Cabin crew "management" have recently stated that customer satisfaction with inflight service is higher than at any other time in the airline's history.
FACT.
A quick read of Orangputi's posting history demonstrates definite misogynist, chauvinistic, racist and homophobic tendencies.
Not to mention anti QF cabin crew bias.
What this "gentleman" seems not to understand is that exhibiting these tendencies [as I'm sure he can't help but do] is not going to lend oneself to receiving good service on any airline save those who's staff grovel subserviently.
No doubt anything less than fawning obsequiousness would be considered substandard by this individual.
Best that we take what our resident "Les Patterson" says with regard to cabin service with a grain of salt.
FACT.
A quick read of Orangputi's posting history demonstrates definite misogynist, chauvinistic, racist and homophobic tendencies.
Not to mention anti QF cabin crew bias.
What this "gentleman" seems not to understand is that exhibiting these tendencies [as I'm sure he can't help but do] is not going to lend oneself to receiving good service on any airline save those who's staff grovel subserviently.
No doubt anything less than fawning obsequiousness would be considered substandard by this individual.
Best that we take what our resident "Les Patterson" says with regard to cabin service with a grain of salt.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Name of the Game:Joyce Trashes The Brand
The latest on-again, off-again industrial action threatened by unions at Qantas will leave the airline's brand battered even if every flight ends up taking off as scheduled this week and next.
The licensed aircraft engineers union today called off plans to strike tomorrow, prompting Qantas to reinstate flights it had planned to cancel during peak travel times. Some 2,500 passengers on 31 canceled flights are presumably being contacted a second time today to be told to turn up at airports as initially intended.
At this stage, the engineers are sticking to their plans to stop work or limit operations next Monday and Tuesday, so the reprieve may be short-lived.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Either way, Alan Joyce’s decision to stare down the demands of unions and staff in the face of industrial action threatens to cost the company dearly at a time when its rival Virgin Australia is ramping up its business offering after one of the most highly regarded executives at Qantas, John Borghetti, was appointed last year to run the group.
Pilots are waiting in the wings, as it were, to join the engineers' action.
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) said today it had "drawn a line in the sand" because Qantas management was not negotiating seriously.
It said if Qantas did not signal a change of intent by close of business on Thursday next week, the union would take the first steps towards protected industrial action.
It comes as another union in negotiations with Qantas, the Transport Workers Union, also warned of possible industrial action.
With so much negativity, the company's shares were marginally lower in afternoon trade at $2.13, after earlier touching $2.10, close to its $2 issue price when it listed more than 15 years ago. This price makes it one of the most disappointing privatisations on the ASX.
Battles
Qantas is battling rising oil prices, low staff morale a string of midair emergencies last year and a downgrade of the Qantas brand as it seeks to cut costs and promote its cheaper Jetstar brand.
There is a groundswell of anger inside Qantas at the treatment of staff and lack of consultation. It will be hard to find a solution without Joyce looking like he has lost control.
On the one hand, Qantas is facing stiffer competition and falling yields, and on the other hand, Qantas pilots want a career structure and are concerned at the promotion of Jetstar at the expense of Qantas.
As one pilot said yesterday: “Pilots will give a three-year wage freeze worth approximately $100 million for the three years plus other offsets for an integrated career structure in the Qantas group. But Joyce won’t talk.”
In a report by Merrill Lynch last week, the conclusion was that Qantas was one of the most expensive airlines in the region.
Qantas pilots and engineers currently have wage claims but are offering no productivity gains. Qantas says this translates into a 25 per cent rise in pilot costs over three years and 36 per cent for engineers.
However, it could be argued that the lack of productivity by Qantas pilots is due to Qantas having the wrong aircraft and too many different types, many of which are old. And there's a surplus of pilots due to work being given to Jetstar. Thirdly, there's the company’s refusal to offer any incentive for pilots to take leave with some benefits or redundancies.
Industrial action will be tough for customers to swallow - should it eventually take place - given the company’s decision to run down the brand, both domestically and internationally. Throwing strikes into the mix will only add to the diminishing perception of Qantas.
[email protected]
The licensed aircraft engineers union today called off plans to strike tomorrow, prompting Qantas to reinstate flights it had planned to cancel during peak travel times. Some 2,500 passengers on 31 canceled flights are presumably being contacted a second time today to be told to turn up at airports as initially intended.
At this stage, the engineers are sticking to their plans to stop work or limit operations next Monday and Tuesday, so the reprieve may be short-lived.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Either way, Alan Joyce’s decision to stare down the demands of unions and staff in the face of industrial action threatens to cost the company dearly at a time when its rival Virgin Australia is ramping up its business offering after one of the most highly regarded executives at Qantas, John Borghetti, was appointed last year to run the group.
Pilots are waiting in the wings, as it were, to join the engineers' action.
The Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) said today it had "drawn a line in the sand" because Qantas management was not negotiating seriously.
It said if Qantas did not signal a change of intent by close of business on Thursday next week, the union would take the first steps towards protected industrial action.
It comes as another union in negotiations with Qantas, the Transport Workers Union, also warned of possible industrial action.
With so much negativity, the company's shares were marginally lower in afternoon trade at $2.13, after earlier touching $2.10, close to its $2 issue price when it listed more than 15 years ago. This price makes it one of the most disappointing privatisations on the ASX.
Battles
Qantas is battling rising oil prices, low staff morale a string of midair emergencies last year and a downgrade of the Qantas brand as it seeks to cut costs and promote its cheaper Jetstar brand.
There is a groundswell of anger inside Qantas at the treatment of staff and lack of consultation. It will be hard to find a solution without Joyce looking like he has lost control.
On the one hand, Qantas is facing stiffer competition and falling yields, and on the other hand, Qantas pilots want a career structure and are concerned at the promotion of Jetstar at the expense of Qantas.
As one pilot said yesterday: “Pilots will give a three-year wage freeze worth approximately $100 million for the three years plus other offsets for an integrated career structure in the Qantas group. But Joyce won’t talk.”
In a report by Merrill Lynch last week, the conclusion was that Qantas was one of the most expensive airlines in the region.
Qantas pilots and engineers currently have wage claims but are offering no productivity gains. Qantas says this translates into a 25 per cent rise in pilot costs over three years and 36 per cent for engineers.
However, it could be argued that the lack of productivity by Qantas pilots is due to Qantas having the wrong aircraft and too many different types, many of which are old. And there's a surplus of pilots due to work being given to Jetstar. Thirdly, there's the company’s refusal to offer any incentive for pilots to take leave with some benefits or redundancies.
Industrial action will be tough for customers to swallow - should it eventually take place - given the company’s decision to run down the brand, both domestically and internationally. Throwing strikes into the mix will only add to the diminishing perception of Qantas.
[email protected]
I'm a bit confused here...
ramble on rambles on about the 'special' [QF] cabin staff attitude that seems so particular to QF when:
Perhaps it was the number of 'pre galley-sortie' drinks that RO had consumed that made him/her forget what was on the menu...I don't know. Who gives a sh1t? Ever think that you were annoying the hell out of the crew by behaving as you did ramble on? 
Oragputi has a rant about also having:
Shooting from the lip more accurately summarises Orangputi's complaint about his/her unfortunate experience. Glad to know that you won't be on the same flights as me in future Orangputi, now that you've crossed-off QF from your Christmas card list. That is a BIG relief (for QF CC too). 
Don't let the door bang you on the arse on your way out!
Framer voices opinion about QF, and that:
Wow.........serious customer service stuff there (NOT) by the sounds of things. Come on, admit it Framer, you ended up being ill-tempered yourself as a result of your self-confessed QF 'bad hair event', didn't you?
Did you lodge a complaint with QF Framer? You can, you know! See Qantas Customer Charter
Framer continues at post#102:
Yes, subjective, pernickity, pedantic generalisations such as those expressed above are bloody sad! Get a bloody life for God's sake.
And (disbelief here):
Huh? 
Liar liar pants on fire.
You DID have a go at the crew Framer, in a very offensive manner too:
From the sounds of things Framer, I'd say the crew were thinking exactly the same sentiments about you. 
All I can conclude is that ramble on, Orangputi and Framer must be travelling on a completely different QF than I am as a full fare-paying punter, because I've yet to encounter the cabin crew conduct that is adversely implied by those three posters.
What standard unit said! If you don't like QF ramble on, Oranputi or Framer then there's a pretty easy solution, and that's for you to choose an alternative means of transport!'
As Sunfish says in post#813 at http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...-begin-41.html, the QF product can be judged as '...stale and overpriced'. Maybe so, but it remains my choice for the places that I need to go, when I need to go to them, and it's a hell of a lot better than its bastard offshoot Jet*.
Try travelling with that outfit ramble on, Orangputi and Framer, if you haven't already done so. That'll REALLY give you something to complain about.
Rant over.
ramble on rambles on about the 'special' [QF] cabin staff attitude that seems so particular to QF when:
'...you ask for appear in the galley to ask for a drink, or have forgotten what was on the menu.'
Oragputi has a rant about also having:
'...unfortunately experienced it (for the last time I add), just disgraceful/ no idea / cranky grandmas and ladyboys. the catering crap, poor aircraft interior and IFE and the tickets well overpriced! Sorry I maybe shooting from the hip but I am a full fair paying punter and it should matter! [sic]'
Don't let the door bang you on the arse on your way out!
Framer voices opinion about QF, and that:
'...It is a bit rough now days I agree. I caught a 76 last week (economy) and the crew were bordering on surly. Definately not cheeful and helpful [sic]. When I asked for a drink the response was juuuuust inside downright rude. The crew I was near were a couple of blokes in late forties, couple of women in late forties or early fifties and I couldn't help thinking to myself " If this is all a bit too tiring for you, bugger off and get another job 'cause you're making my day slightly worse"
The flight was fine but the clapped out IFE screen at an 80 degree angle from my seat about two meters away was a dissapointment. Definately not worth the money.[sic]'
The flight was fine but the clapped out IFE screen at an 80 degree angle from my seat about two meters away was a dissapointment. Definately not worth the money.[sic]'
Did you lodge a complaint with QF Framer? You can, you know! See Qantas Customer Charter
Framer continues at post#102:
'...I even think that the attitudes of the cabin crew can be traced back to management style......to a degree. I understand that they may be annoyed with some of their conditions etc, but I also think that the individuals are responsible for creating the atmosphere on board and that it takes professionalism to hide away their frustrations and create that atmosphere.....or at least not create the opposite. If it's got to the stage where they are so angry that they are incapable of doing that, then I will fly with a different airline where things have not reached that stage. Not having a go at the crew, just how I see it. Sad really.'
And (disbelief here):
'Not having a go at the crew, just how I see it.'
Liar liar pants on fire.You DID have a go at the crew Framer, in a very offensive manner too:
'The crew I was near were a couple of blokes in late forties, couple of women in late forties or early fifties and I couldn't help thinking to myself " If this is all a bit too tiring for you, bugger off and get another job 'cause you're making my day slightly worse" [sic]
All I can conclude is that ramble on, Orangputi and Framer must be travelling on a completely different QF than I am as a full fare-paying punter, because I've yet to encounter the cabin crew conduct that is adversely implied by those three posters.
What standard unit said! If you don't like QF ramble on, Oranputi or Framer then there's a pretty easy solution, and that's for you to choose an alternative means of transport!'
As Sunfish says in post#813 at http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...-begin-41.html, the QF product can be judged as '...stale and overpriced'. Maybe so, but it remains my choice for the places that I need to go, when I need to go to them, and it's a hell of a lot better than its bastard offshoot Jet*.
Try travelling with that outfit ramble on, Orangputi and Framer, if you haven't already done so. That'll REALLY give you something to complain about.
Rant over.
Last edited by SIUYA; 12th May 2011 at 09:15.