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Qantas~ A Business in Decline

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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 19:52
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QANTAS boss Alan Joyce wants a moratorium on new international flights into Australia, claiming the flood of new airlines has crippled Qantas International.

Joyce told a Melbourne Press Club luncheon yesterday: "If we continue on our current path there will be a real question mark over the viability of Qantas International."


So it's ok to set up brands in other countries and undermine Australian working conditions by having foreign labour operate through australia,"to remain competitive," but cry fowl when the going gets tough. Take your bat and ball and go home AJ and BB.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 20:00
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The cannibilzation of Qantas by J* was something the arrogant management said would never happen. The gifting of routes services and infrastructure to the orange plague is proving to be the obvious implosion of Qantas. There has been some bad luck but its our direction and leadership void that is the problem. Thanks to Dixon the biggest single blunder, not buying 777s, then followed by the morale busting APA bid which has to go down in history as a corporate disgrace worthy of ACCC investigation. The continual transfer of costs out of J* and onto Qantas is obvious. Who will pay when the A330s start returning after being flogged to death with minimal maintenance? There are lots of people that for some reason hate Qantas and would love to see it fail or fall from grace. In spite of the idiotic management I will play my part to try and keep it alive. I despise the management's direction of our airline but love its history and the people I work with. When you constantly threaten people's livelihood with an infantile overbearing management culture why would the wankers at the top be surprised like they are. Because they have no idea. The board. chaiman and ceo must go.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 21:24
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Joyce the New Godfrey????

What seems to be becoming more and more obvious to the business commentators/community and possibly even the Qantas board is that Joyce has delivered nothing to the mainline brand to stop its decline. He has disengaged his staff and just looks completely out of his depth. One would say almost Godfrey like.
JB knows exactly the cost of everything Qantas. He knows their Achilles heal and he is setting up his chess board. It has been said before and I will say it again. The Q board picking Joyce over Borghetti will come back to haunt them. All the qantas staff who know and dealt with JB knew this. I think the board are starting to see it also.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 21:28
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Dixon & now Joyce constantly complain about QF's lack of competitive edge due to Australia being an end of the line destination. This may well be true but also true is the positive aspect of Australia's geography & financial stability.
Australia's geography means it has a large advantage due to the domestic market (which after 2001 they had the whole country on a platter & failed to capitalize). Also Australia's economy has been shielded like no other on the planet over the last 10 years.
Time for new CEO, chairman & a complete change of culture is required.
Can someone please give a sound financial reason why Jetstar is receiving the first 15 B787's. Average fleet age of 747's & 767's must be close to 20 years. No wonder premium passengers are leaving in droves.
Why is Qantas so Sydney centric? Isn't Melbourne's population meant to exceed Sydney's over the coming decade?
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 21:44
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Angry Sydney Centric

438 Are you "Sunfish's" love child ?
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 22:11
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It's unbelievable that AJ is now scratching his head about where Qantas is going!
Milking the brand, allowing the business to slide and now wondering whats going wrong is laughable.
But hang on, giving LG the job to find a miracle answer is positively hysterical!
The problem with Qantas is that Commercial have been running it for years. The company was built by Operations. The brand, reputation..everything and still they think the answer is more self check in kiosks.
AJ, save the money with LG and simply buy the right aircraft for the right route, get the staff on side and you'll have a good starting point. Good Lord, engaged staff would lift productivity by 20/30% easy. Numbers that AJ can't imagine.
You know, a simplistic post like this seems well...simple. However the monumental and basic mistakes this lot have made make any suggestion seem plausible.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 22:25
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Although I agree the long haul product to be well below the mark of many of the other foreign carriers
Surely all the doom and gloom has nothing at all to do with the long haul EA negotiations?
This will make the pilot group seem like a selfish bunch if they want any improvements in T&C!
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 22:40
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Roo Boy,

Maybe a company going well is under more pressure to share the wealth than one facing uncertain future.Ask any of the union reps here.

Well worn tactic of management (not just in the rat) to justify low/no increases and releasing this now may just be a lead up play.

Who knows with this lot as I have long given up trying to understand what they are doing.
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Old 3rd Feb 2011, 22:56
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From the Australian

Lesley Grant, who is spearheading the three-month review of the international division, made her name as a change agent with her work on cutting flight crew costs by better management while increasing staff numbers.
Isn't that just another way of describing Jetstar?

Geeeze, does AJ know he's upsetting people here by talking down Qantas? What a "Qantas basher"!!!!!
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 00:18
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Joyce: A cliche under Pressure

Joyce could be reading from a Dixon script.Same woe is me.Same lament about costs and geography and the lack of a level playing field.
EBAs on the way.
This is a man who promised so much and has delivered so little.The guy is under pressure.If he leaves QF with no runs on the board,where does he go?He has no idea how to generate profit or compete.He wants a moratorium on new entrants into Australia.C'mon on Al get with the programme.Be innovative.Be smarter than your competitors and re invigorate the brand.
What's that you say? You dont know how?
Oops! Old Chesty Bond wont be happy.This was supposed to be the dream run before retirement
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 00:32
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You have a board chairman and ceo who simply don't believe in what qantas is or can be. They have no answers or ideas in how to use hard working staff for the betterment of the company.
Their solution is an attempt to smash the corporate culture and terms and conditions of every front line staff member. Not so long ago, during the dixon reign, markets said what a great result the $1 billion dollar profit was. The two brand strategy was in its infancy. Progress through to present day, qantas competitiors are all suggesting a big rebound in corporate traffic, better yields and greatly improved profits. Look at cathays recent annnouncements as an example.
Compare this to qantas now. The two brand strategy has delivered a number of things. A reduction in international market share, an mainline fleet that is old and dysfunctional in types for markets, a dangerous heamorrhaging of higher yield passengers to true premium airlines, complete disinterest in providing a good product for families and the average punter, ie. economy passengers and overall a dramatic reduction in profits in comparison to other peer airlines in the region.
One has to wonder when corporate share holders will start asking bigger questions of the board and ceo's performance. Certainly the greater market has no real faith in the board performance if share price is any indication.
The next 6 months will probably be a watershed when it comes to the direction qantas corporate wants to go.
EBA negotiations with a number of professional bodies who have signalled their displeasure with the direction and views of those who lead, by delivering to them the worst engagement survey results in australian corporate history should make it interesting to say the least.
Messers Joyce and Clifford will no doubt roll out the 1960's industial rleations rhetoric in the up coming stoushes but this just shows how misaligned they are with the people who truly believe in where qantas should be at, at this time.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 01:24
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Plenty of feeback here, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce says airline needs to rebuild its brand and whilst plenty of QANTAS bashing, they might just be genuine flyers who have had a bad experience and can say what some of the issues are. Example, Neil Perry, FF and lack of seats, JetStar, the Board, Joyce etc.

Maybe he could save some money and just read some forums to understand what the issues are?
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 01:37
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Good post hotnhigh. Its time for the combinded Qantas unions to get together publicly and put out a motion of no confidence in the board and senior management, then follow that up with visits to the major share holders and explain to them that on the current trajectory there probably wont be much left for them in 5 years.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 01:58
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Plain PlaneTalking

Qantas, Joyce and the bleeding obvious
It is astonishing and disappointing to read this morning’s reports of Alan Joyce’s pre-half yearly results softening up speech in Melbourne yesterday.
After two years of very hard and earnest work as CEO of Qantas Joyce is still talking about working parties to work out how to fix the airline’s long haul business and rebuild its brand and the evils of open competition with wicked foreign carriers stealing its lunch, to paraphrase.
Surely it isn’t necessary to have a working party to fix the airline’s image or product. Properly cleaning the cabins of the sort of filth that filled the gap between the floor and wall of the last Qantas 767 I flew in would be a start. People do look at the muck under their feet.
And they would like to fly in something that isn’t approaching a moment when it is either flown to the Qantas Museum in Longreach or a scrap yard. The assumption that if a Qantas service isn’t available Jetstar is an acceptable alternative is surely an error. Jetstar is probably the major source of new business for Virgin Blue.
The evidence that Jetstar might be about to move upmarket, by feeding the occasional interlined backpacker, is a mixed signal, but on balance, probably a positive.
One is entitled to hope that Joyce has some good news concerning the airline’s fleet renewal strategies at the half yearly results conference on February 17. Another nine years or so of its once wonderful but now dysfunctional 747-400 fleet is just not on, and the removal of the old 767s and 737-400s is even more pressing.
The recent and apparently soon to be reversed jamming of tiny seven across seats in its A330 domestic business class cabins (and for the second time) is as clear a sign as any that somewhere near the top of Qantas there is product planning with a deep contempt for quality, or a belief that the brand can blind. The rationale for the change was that the jets would be interchangeable with Jetstar in terms of configuration, which is a damning admission.
But the weirdest message to come out of yesterday’s preliminary softening up exercise was the implication that Australia should curb competition so that Qantas could catch up with a whole series of initiatives taken by its evil competitors.
Qantas doesn’t even fly non-stop to Dubai or Abu Dhabi, the centres of darkness yet also the only hub airports in the world growing as fast as those of China. In the very near future there will, on current trends, be more premium passengers passing through the upper level of the Emirates terminal in Dubai than there are passengers flying Qantas in aggregate. If Qantas isn’t prepared to see and recognise the major new markets, and the convenience they bring to flying to secondary cities in Europe and the growth centres of China, what exactly is the Qantas message?
Apparently it wants to stop competitors running in a race it isn’t prepared to enter.
But what is good for Qantas is not good for Australia. The country needs non-stop flights to ‘minor’ Chinese cities that are larger than Sydney and Melbourne, and sometimes both combined, and it needs one stop Middle East connections to North Africa, Russia and the eastern European nations that do not involve absurd connections in London on British Airways flights.
The old thinking that grips the Qantas corporate mind continues to frustrate and baffle those who fly.
The new non-stop services to Dallas Fort Worth are very promising. But they come with the sacrifice of what were full flights to San Francisco in the process, which were claimed to be carrying insufficient business passengers. Really. Try multiplying 300 economy fares to San Francisco and putting them beside 50 premium fares and the maths seem to suggest that it doesn’t matter because the main cabin is cross subsidising the business class seats anyhow.
To suggest to business travellers going to Silicon Valley that they should now change planes in Los Angeles for the thrill of a second encounter with US airport security, and spend an extra three or four hours getting to their destination is really insulting. Most of them will be lost to Qantas and gained by United, Hawaiian, Delta, V Australia and Air New Zealand. How can this possibly be of benefit to Qantas?
The Qantas departure from San Francisco is the perfect opportunity for Singapore Airlines to offer a daily 777-300ER non-stop from Sydney or Melbourne, to fill the gap, and also restore some credibility to Australian government policy that in effect, reneged on an agreement to let the Singaporeans fly the non-stop Australia-US routes.
If Qantas is waiting for a non-stop capable 787 to operate to San Francisco under the Jetstar brand we are all going to be much older when it happens. There may be 787s by the end of 2013, please God that’s only five years later than promised, but there is no sign they will be capable of the performance required for 313 passengers non-stop each way and ETOPS 180 ready by then.
There are alarming signs that Qantas actually believed the marketing and did not inquire as to the reality of the 787. And as far as being unhappy with Rolls-Royce over the non-disclosure of what was or wasn’t happening to those engines on the wings of Qantas A380s, what did it expect from signing away the necessary levels of control over these engines in a forget-everything-and-buy-power-by-the-hour deal?
Surely the answer to Qantas problems isn’t bleating about more successful competitors, or the misfortunes of geography, but investing in the right equipment and the right people.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 02:24
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As a consequence, Qantas International’s market share had fallen from 35 per cent to 20 per cent.
Just heard on ABC News that apparently Jetstar is doing 9%, therefore, total market share for the Qantas "group" is 29% including Jetstar.

Meaning they have given away 9% to Jetstar and only lost 6%.

They have given away 25% of their international flying to Jetstar !
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 02:36
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Qantas~ The Flying Circus

Dixon and Joyce have succeeded in turning Qantas into a circus.If this wasnt so serious it would be entertaining
Maybe we should give Monty Python a shot at running Qantas.He certainly couldnt do any worse than this lot and he would probably be a lot cheaper and morale would improve instantly
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 02:45
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Defcon,

Agree but that depends on pending and exit bonus payments and we all know the rats history on that score for the elite group.

Maybe by stepping up scrutiny now, those negotiations if and when they occur can be held with a similar background to what this lot are trying to do now with eba.

Guess I am dreaming again and need to step up my medication.
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 03:56
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i don't need to comment on this thread. I spelled it out before. Qantas alienated everyone not living in Sydney, then screwed its brand further by inventing Jetstar, then alienated everyone further by outsourcing maintenance overseas with the normal consequences. Then compounded that by acting as if the part of the brand that built its reputation is a "legacy airline". Then tried to take the company private in the most stupid way possible. Then it did everything possible to find cheaper foreign staff and sever its connections with an Australian workforce.

And now complains that life is tough? Please explain why protecting an airline that is contemptuous of its Australian roots and never met a cheap foreign worker it didn't like is in Australias interest?
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 04:02
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Hang On!!! Nobody has even mentioned the disastrous A380 purchase. This is the biggest single factor in my opinion that has led to the demise of this once great airline. Half full , half reliable, half of what was promised !!!
There is No great world airline traffic recovery forecast that will substantiate the continued use of the A380 in my book. The longer these are held by the company the more they will suffer financially. Sell 'em & buy 777 sized twins , & preferably , get back to "Going Boeing" .
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Old 4th Feb 2011, 04:14
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Dragon man, I agree with the idea of a combined employee group stategy to deliver the message to institutional shareholders but they also need to be aware of alternatives.
What alternatives? Well, simply they either want qantas in the future or they want it dead. The replacement of course is jetstar. Unfortunately for the board, their plans to make jetstar australia, big enough to simply bring the red paint out after a period and call everthing the remodelled qantas, has struck a few major roadblocks over the last 18 months. This in turn has forced the change in position to overseas basings, and as a result, a reduction in long term growth factors for aussie based jetstar crews.
This now leaves their game plan for remodelling qantas up the creek, because they no longer have the vehicle to use in australia due to few changes to the fair work choices legislation and also the qantas sales act.
As a result, the destruction of the qantas international product/yield/morale of staff and all else that qantas employees are fully aware of, has been exaserbated by the lack of conviction to work with the current operation to evolve, invest and improve.
The idea of a no confidence vote may create a headline for one day but the board and ceo will simply dismiss it with their usual arrogance and contempt for front line qantas employees.
Sadly I think we are looking into the precipice of something really nasty. Qantas is in a very bad position at the moment and the ceo and board don't have the answers.
Message to the ceo, get over the fact that an A380 costs "x" dollars compared to a jetstar 320. You are either in the business of long haul or you are not. Come to grips with the fact that the lack of investment since the geoff dixon reign, has all but destroyed your premium market. Passengers are pissed off with the crap aircraft, poor schedules and the excuses. The higher yielding punters in qantas, in all classes don't believe in the jetstar revolution. That is why they are now leaving in droves. And finall your state of the art bag check in does nothing more than provide an insight into the whole corporate startegy. The passenger does everything. There are limited staff to assist. Where is the customer service in that?
And finally, there must be something extremely wrong with your surveys because you keep trumpeting on about customer satisfaction ratings and yet you preside over a train wreck when it comes to falling premium traffic.

Rant over. Saturday is another tattslotto draw. Please, oh please.
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