Qantas~The Loss Of Invincibility
A simple visual inspection with a Mk.1 eyeball would have noticed that eccentric counterbore on the oil pipe.
A simple, "Go and No Go" gauge would have also detected it.
Exactly what are/were Rolls Royce thinking?
As there is a mating pipe, probably with O rings, and a clamp over the fitting according to the ATSB the whole assembly has to be under continuous asymmetric stress, not a good idea.
400 people almost dead and an aircraft almost written off because of a rotten counterbore?
I will make a tiny allowance for crappy surface finish if its Inconel, which is difficult to machine, but not for that much rotten geometry.
So next question; what else didn't RR get right?
...and since QF outsourced their engine maintenance, they had better be asking exactly the same question.
A simple, "Go and No Go" gauge would have also detected it.
Exactly what are/were Rolls Royce thinking?
As there is a mating pipe, probably with O rings, and a clamp over the fitting according to the ATSB the whole assembly has to be under continuous asymmetric stress, not a good idea.
400 people almost dead and an aircraft almost written off because of a rotten counterbore?
I will make a tiny allowance for crappy surface finish if its Inconel, which is difficult to machine, but not for that much rotten geometry.
So next question; what else didn't RR get right?
...and since QF outsourced their engine maintenance, they had better be asking exactly the same question.
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Now that the ATSB has given it's position, the real inquiry should begin.
Who knew or if AJ is to believed, who DID NOT know? & why?
Where is the 'responsible officer' who is listed on the AOC? and what was his part?
The other questions go to credability - including that the inspections were done by RR & Q - no independent verification - (another win for self regulation) - The tragic media and comms strategies also need to use the borescope.
Interesting twist is that both NSW & VIC OHS law makes provision for designers and manufacturers of plant. The Act(s) make specific the platform of knowledge of and the obligations arising from potential risk.
Qantas' positon articulated by AJ efectively lays the justification for both the NSW & VIC Authorities to initiate action against Qantas and Rolls Royce.
Got an email from a friend who copied it from advice given to some of the CC that have banded together with a no win/no fee legal firm to have a run at getting their own slice of compensation for lost income.
(wonder if they'll join Joe & the Sunstate engs'?)
AT
Who knew or if AJ is to believed, who DID NOT know? & why?
Where is the 'responsible officer' who is listed on the AOC? and what was his part?
The other questions go to credability - including that the inspections were done by RR & Q - no independent verification - (another win for self regulation) - The tragic media and comms strategies also need to use the borescope.
Interesting twist is that both NSW & VIC OHS law makes provision for designers and manufacturers of plant. The Act(s) make specific the platform of knowledge of and the obligations arising from potential risk.
Qantas' positon articulated by AJ efectively lays the justification for both the NSW & VIC Authorities to initiate action against Qantas and Rolls Royce.
Got an email from a friend who copied it from advice given to some of the CC that have banded together with a no win/no fee legal firm to have a run at getting their own slice of compensation for lost income.
(wonder if they'll join Joe & the Sunstate engs'?)
AT
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But as usual, this removal of regulation has been abused by management to excess.
Much like removal of regulation in the banking sector set them up for enrichment of management and a bail out by the suffering taxpayer.
Much like removal of regulation in the banking sector set them up for enrichment of management and a bail out by the suffering taxpayer.
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Would have to agree with most of your comments.
For me....It ranges from sadness.......bewilderment.......frustration and anger.
Probably the lowest point of my time at QF was the sickening APA bid. To read that 22 of the top Exco members would of pocketed millions of dollars and that they were urging ALL shareholders/staff to vote YES
The realising what the GFC would have done to the airline IF it got up.
They call Qantas the luckiest airline in the world.
I 100% agree...... when you think of the QF1 "incident", APA bid, QF72,QF87 and now the QF 32 !!!! ( I could name a few others here-but !
)
The common thread running through all of these "events" is that the operation continued on due to the skill,guts and dedication of Qantas people.
Sadly for the victims and families of the Pike River mine disaster- an enquiry is being dome AFTER this shocking event.
I reckon its time to have a full enquiry at Qantas ....NOW ....before its too late.
PLEASE
Who would make up the panel of enquiry ????
That is for another topic.
~ Stubby.
For me....It ranges from sadness.......bewilderment.......frustration and anger.
Probably the lowest point of my time at QF was the sickening APA bid. To read that 22 of the top Exco members would of pocketed millions of dollars and that they were urging ALL shareholders/staff to vote YES
The realising what the GFC would have done to the airline IF it got up.
They call Qantas the luckiest airline in the world.
I 100% agree...... when you think of the QF1 "incident", APA bid, QF72,QF87 and now the QF 32 !!!! ( I could name a few others here-but !
)The common thread running through all of these "events" is that the operation continued on due to the skill,guts and dedication of Qantas people.
Sadly for the victims and families of the Pike River mine disaster- an enquiry is being dome AFTER this shocking event.
I reckon its time to have a full enquiry at Qantas ....NOW ....before its too late.
PLEASE
Who would make up the panel of enquiry ????
That is for another topic.
~ Stubby.
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Arnold,
Jaba is referring to Rob Fyfe, boss at Air New Zealand. From what I remember the bloke does a day a month at the workface. He regularly does cabin service beside his flight attendants etc.
From what I also read he makes the tough decisions whilst engaging his staff. His staff respect him, he doesn't draw a massive, out of proportion wage for his services. If you think of where ANZ has come from in the last 10 years, remarkable!
Jaba is referring to Rob Fyfe, boss at Air New Zealand. From what I remember the bloke does a day a month at the workface. He regularly does cabin service beside his flight attendants etc.
From what I also read he makes the tough decisions whilst engaging his staff. His staff respect him, he doesn't draw a massive, out of proportion wage for his services. If you think of where ANZ has come from in the last 10 years, remarkable!
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Too late
Australian aviation reached a turning point a few years back. A turning point that none of us are going to like. This industry within our continent is lining itself up for a smoking hole. The seeds have been sewn and we are well and truly along the path into this journey.
Poor regulation, CEO greed, incompetence and a rapid decline in standards, systems and resources has set the wheels for a smoking hole well and truly in motion. The signs are there, the evidence is there and the escalation in incidents and occurences is there.
Tick tock.....
Poor regulation, CEO greed, incompetence and a rapid decline in standards, systems and resources has set the wheels for a smoking hole well and truly in motion. The signs are there, the evidence is there and the escalation in incidents and occurences is there.
Tick tock.....
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Arnold, I know who he is, he is my vintage. He is a very experienced pilot, with enormous experience. In fact a bloke who could fly the pants of most of us, right G?
You lot keep hanging **** on RR ad nauseum. Wonder what you will say when your GE packs up spectacularly. And get over this ferking QF icon thing will you. Vegemite is septic tank owned but you dont complain!
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The gobbledock is right on the money.
Every day now I expect to wake to hear the news that a QF Aircraft has bought the farm somewhere around the world.
The F'wits that manage the place dont care that a tragedy is not too far away, they will continue to chop the guts out of QF until the big one occurs and then they will collect their money and run for the hills.
Anyone who thinks that talking to AJ will convince him to hit the brakes and chuck the place into reverse needs their head red, come hell or high water we are going to find out just how far costs can be cut before tragedy occurs. It's not a case of if anymore but a case of when.
Every day now I expect to wake to hear the news that a QF Aircraft has bought the farm somewhere around the world.
The F'wits that manage the place dont care that a tragedy is not too far away, they will continue to chop the guts out of QF until the big one occurs and then they will collect their money and run for the hills.
Anyone who thinks that talking to AJ will convince him to hit the brakes and chuck the place into reverse needs their head red, come hell or high water we are going to find out just how far costs can be cut before tragedy occurs. It's not a case of if anymore but a case of when.
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i agree as a former Lame at Qantas,and one that has worked in Europe,in defense and general aviation,when i got to Qantas their standards where second to none,as time has past i have seen the standard drop to those of the Greek operators and beyond.There has now been too many major incidents and the propabilities of a hull loss i think are very close.the management have cooked the golden goose,once Heavy Maint started to be de centrelized out of Sydney that was the beginging of the end for Qantas,good luck to thoese qantas employees that are left you will need it.
Last edited by qf 1; 6th Dec 2010 at 18:06.
Frangatang:
Many years ago I had to sit through presentations by BAE about their wonderful 146 aircraft. I also had to sit with some of their engineers while they patiently explained the wonderful new maintenance features of this amazing aircraft to me - "features" that Boeing had applied at least Twenty years before. I got the distinct feeling I was being talked down to as an ignorant colonial.
Contrast that with the reception one used to get at Boeing - there was, almost an air of humility since we were the customer. Douglas of course was different. They told you in the first Thirty seconds that they had built the DC3 - every time, and therefore you could tell them nothing.
Years later I had to sit through more British smoke and mirrors BS regarding databases, again delivered in this cultivated Oxbridge accent.
If RR are true to form, their sales and customer relations people will still be spouting beautiful BS delivered in that lovely accent, and probably referring to their great and glorious history "we built the Merlin you know".
As far as I'm concerned, you are as good as your last gig, and RR aren't doing that well.
You lot keep hanging **** on RR ad nauseum. Wonder what you will say when your GE packs up spectacularly. And get over this ferking QF icon thing will you. Vegemite is septic tank owned but you dont complain!
Many years ago I had to sit through presentations by BAE about their wonderful 146 aircraft. I also had to sit with some of their engineers while they patiently explained the wonderful new maintenance features of this amazing aircraft to me - "features" that Boeing had applied at least Twenty years before. I got the distinct feeling I was being talked down to as an ignorant colonial.
Contrast that with the reception one used to get at Boeing - there was, almost an air of humility since we were the customer. Douglas of course was different. They told you in the first Thirty seconds that they had built the DC3 - every time, and therefore you could tell them nothing.
Years later I had to sit through more British smoke and mirrors BS regarding databases, again delivered in this cultivated Oxbridge accent.
If RR are true to form, their sales and customer relations people will still be spouting beautiful BS delivered in that lovely accent, and probably referring to their great and glorious history "we built the Merlin you know".
As far as I'm concerned, you are as good as your last gig, and RR aren't doing that well.
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Mistake
The Biggest Mistake the board has ever made was to listen to Marget Jackson & Geoff Dixon & giving the CEO job to Joyce, he has no idea how to run a major airline, just a cheap crap low cost bus service....
Borgetthi should have been the CEO, things would have been so different even now...
As for that stupid PR girl, send her back to where ever she came from, she has no idea a total goose...
Borgetthi should have been the CEO, things would have been so different even now...
As for that stupid PR girl, send her back to where ever she came from, she has no idea a total goose...
Re 'astroboy'
So, this opens up a new discussion.
Who could they get? If left to the board do they go after Fyfe at Air NZ or ask an Aussie to return home like James Hogan at Etihad?
Offer a public apology to John Borghetti and beg him to come back? Not much chance of that happening though, is there?
Are there any senior operational guys floating around the likes of Cathay, Emirates, etc who started out at QANTAS and would like to come home?
What about internally? Anyone know of or believe that there is someone there?
ive heard from multiple sources, both inside and outside QF, that Joyce will not be having his contract renewed next year. Apparently the board, even Clifford, are not impressed with his constant focus on Jetstar at the expense of mainline, and his neglecting of the 'premium' product. The inside mutterings i dismissed instantly, but the talk from independent external sources stuck with me, due to their close business associations with QF........
Who could they get? If left to the board do they go after Fyfe at Air NZ or ask an Aussie to return home like James Hogan at Etihad?
Offer a public apology to John Borghetti and beg him to come back? Not much chance of that happening though, is there?
Are there any senior operational guys floating around the likes of Cathay, Emirates, etc who started out at QANTAS and would like to come home?
What about internally? Anyone know of or believe that there is someone there?
I wouldn't wish managers from Cathay Pacific on anybody; even QANTAS!
Examples (the euphemisms say it all) : the Screaming Skull (current CASA CEO), the Ayatollah (a previous CASA CEO), Red Oddington (Ansett no longer even exists), David Downturn (associated with the APA bid for QANTAS)...see the Fragrant Harbour forum for even more competent and engaging potential CEO's!
Examples (the euphemisms say it all) : the Screaming Skull (current CASA CEO), the Ayatollah (a previous CASA CEO), Red Oddington (Ansett no longer even exists), David Downturn (associated with the APA bid for QANTAS)...see the Fragrant Harbour forum for even more competent and engaging potential CEO's!
Last edited by Captain Dart; 8th Dec 2010 at 20:43.
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So, this opens up a new discussion.
Who could they get? If left to the board do they go after Fyfe at Air NZ or ask an Aussie to return home like James Hogan at Etihad?
Are there any senior operational guys floating around the likes of Cathay, Emirates, etc who started out at QANTAS and would like to come home?
What about internally? Anyone know of or believe that there is someone there?
Who could they get? If left to the board do they go after Fyfe at Air NZ or ask an Aussie to return home like James Hogan at Etihad?
Are there any senior operational guys floating around the likes of Cathay, Emirates, etc who started out at QANTAS and would like to come home?
What about internally? Anyone know of or believe that there is someone there?
Otherwise Ken Borough tends to boast about his credentials and 'executive manager friends' so maybe he has the necessary fortitude and skill to sit in the big chair ?
