PERTH: It's All Going To Happen...
There was I would guess at least a decade there with NO QF international sectors departing Perth.
Qantas: Farewell Perth, thanks for the loyalty ? opinion | Australian Aviation
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I guess that depends on your definition of 'medium term'. I understand PAC is desperate to get moving on the new pier at the eastern end of T1, to be followed by the development of a new terminal for QF next to T1. Their 'plan' is to have that completed by 2025. I suspect that PAC believes their business case for making that happen will be undermined if they allow QF to keep pushing their international services across to T3/T4. That would then slow down PAC's plans to consolidate all the terminals within the Central Precinct.
Qantas would be insane to NOT make the move to the expanded T1combined precinct if it provided them with better facilities than what they currently have access to at T3/ T4. The reality is that those facilities do not currently exist at T1 and it’s ludicrous for PAC to expect QF to accept a sub standard outcome for the next 6 years. Things like taking an hour to get the aeroplane between the terminals (in addition to the normal transit issues) is enough to kill a business case.
Access out through Dunreath is a piece of cake; in fact, you can even get back onto Brearly if you really want to.
Previously all traffic was out onto the Gt Eastern Hwy, either by way of Brearly or Fauntleroy.
Now you can get out onto either Gt Eastern Hwy or Tonkin and you can turn either way on Tonkin to get into town.
I can guarantee you that I would not be trapped by an organised blockage (what is that anyway).
Luckily, us 'locals' do know about 'Fauntleroy'....is it still open?
You need to go via a couple of roundabouts. Connects down where the Midland Tech Annexe and the Winjeel used to be, at the other end of Dunreath.
Thanks Dick...........Cheeerrrsss...
Grogan and Horrie Miller and the T1 / T2 extension from Leach Hwy.
Until about two maybe three years ago there were NO QF international destinations from Perth
As for T1, the '2 flights of stairs' on departure is the same setup it was when I was 10 years old... which was in the 90s. It literally hasn't changed structurally since, just new carpet (that still smells)
A least for departures they upped their game with the ramps but boarding is very slow especially with a full A380 going back to DXB
or feel it’s necessary to berate QF for wanting a world standard transfer from Domestic to International for their pax. I see we are comparing bus transfers to SYD and BNE while the reality is we should be comparing it to SIN, HKG and DXB where you don’t go leaving the terminal area.
Can see by 2025 QF services out of Perth will have been wound up by then when they get a frame capable of going SYD and MEL to Europe direct !
Keg said:
Like I said, it depends on your definition; I'd call it 'medium term', given the airport's 20 year planning horizon. So your comment that PAC has no plans to remedy the T1 problem "in the short or medium term" is, by your own admission, not correct. That said, there is clearly a conflict between Qantas' short term plans/dreams and the longer term development of the airport. What's the solution? Should PAC pander to Qantas and potentially screw up its own plans, or is there a compromise that suits both parties? Why can't Qantas process its domestic passengers through T1, as it did when JNB flights operated through PER in the past?
I’d call that solidly medium term and getting close to ‘long term’.
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I was at a presentation the other day that showed some of the international routes they are considering for PER. More to PER than the 9/10 to LHR. Of course it needs to be a decent connection for both pax and aircraft utilisation.
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The point many seem to be missing is that the business case for international services ex PER to places like JNB, LHR (and other places that are on the drawing board) can be quite heavily dependent on a number of little things all coming together to make the case. Things like connections from regional or perhaps interstate ports such as ADL, DRW, BNE, etc. Make these connections difficult and it's tick in the cons column for the business case. Adding at least a 30 min connection for pax transferring terminals (probably closer to 45) or more than an hour if needing to changing an aeroplane can be enough to influence people's choice along the lines of what angryrat has pointed out. Club facilities in T4 are good enough to cope with the expanded services with virtually nil additional cost. The club facilities at T1 would require additional staff and resources. Another tick in the cons box.
I always thought the aim of an airport was to get as many pax through the doors as possible. It seems that's not PAC's aim.
So we can argue about semantics about medium term or long term. The reality is that PAC has no coherent plan for the the short term or medium term that will address what Qantas wants to try and achieve in the short to medium term. 2025 is off in the never- never in aviation terms.
They just want it to be as seamless as possible
Need that 240mins first though eh......
Need that 240mins first though eh......
The reality is that PAC has no coherent plan for the the short term or medium term that will address what Qantas wants to try and achieve in the short to medium term. 2025 is off in the never- never in aviation terms.
the reality is that PAC has no coherent plan for the the short term or medium term that will address what Qantas wants to try and achieve in the short to medium term.
The issue is not privatisation per se it is the fact that all these airports have been gifted monopolies. If someone came along and build a competing airport on the outskirts of Perth I'm sure that you will start seeing things change at YPPH
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That's all well and good, but the airport doesn't exist solely for the benefit of Qantas. PAC needs to consider the short, medium and long term interests of the airport and ALL its users. If allowing Qantas to become firmly entrenched on the western side conflicts with PAC's medium to long term plans, then surely they are within their rights to act accordingly. That might mean short term pain for Qantas, but a better long term outcome once all operations are consolidated in the central precinct.
Again, if what PAC was offering Qantas was better to what they currently have QF would be insane not to move. Heck, even equal to what QF currently have would at least be an argument worth having. The reality is that PAC can’t come up with a solution that meets QF’s needs and as a result wil miss out on putting more people through the airport. IE they are willingly foregoing revenue- and potentially quite a bit of it.
So yeah, PAC need to manage it for short, medium, long term. How’s their short term looking for their biggest client? Stuffed. How’s the medium term looking for their biggest client? Stuffed. How’s the long term looking? Well, who would really know given that PAC are yet to turn soil on the second runway or the combined facility.
Great job PAC.
Agreed Keg. I think the famous quote from Tony the mad monk Abbott about Syria is apt for this situation. This is not about good guys and bad guys, this is about bad guys and bad guys. I think QF and Perth Airport are both behaving badly and trying to leverage their position. The state government got conned in the middle as well.
This is NOT a MEL- PER- JNB service- or SYD or BNE.
If QF offered a flight to JNB tomorrow from T1, and it was cheaper than SAA, it would be patronised by people from WA and the east coast (who would have had to change terminals anyway and expected nothing else) because, as is lamented on many, many threads here, people buy on price (see Bloggs #224). The facilities at T1 would not sway them if it was cheaper. QF are either planning to be not much, if at all, cheaper ( note: plan is to operate seasonally so can charge highest fares), or this is part of a longer end game. I reckon the latter is why PA is nervous.
Joyce's business case is how do I get myself out of the cluster f#%k decision I made to partner with EK? It's all about the rows at the front. QF couldn't give a rats about the great unwashed down the back. Ask internally about how much QF pay EK for lounge access in DXB.
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 7th May 2018 at 04:39.
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That still doesn’t solve the issue of the aeroplane doing BNE- PER as a domestic service and then needing to transfer terminals.
MEL- PER- LHR works because it’s how people are getting from MEL to LHR. Anecdotal evidence suggests 20-30 seats only are for domestic pax- 10- 15%. BNE- PER- JNB won’t work because that’s not really how BNE or MEL people get to Jo’burg. Depending on the day, the aeroplane for JNB may come from MEL or SYD or BNE as well so that further complicates the issue.
Of course the WA government and QF having built these fantastic facilities in T4 for international services, PAC don’t want to see them used at times of the day when they’re not otherwise being utilised? That makes a lot of sense doesn’t it.
So lots of naysayers saying to QF ‘suck it up’, no one putting much thought into how to utilise the existing facilities in a way that is win/ win for both airline and PAC. How typically Australian.
MEL- PER- LHR works because it’s how people are getting from MEL to LHR. Anecdotal evidence suggests 20-30 seats only are for domestic pax- 10- 15%. BNE- PER- JNB won’t work because that’s not really how BNE or MEL people get to Jo’burg. Depending on the day, the aeroplane for JNB may come from MEL or SYD or BNE as well so that further complicates the issue.
Of course the WA government and QF having built these fantastic facilities in T4 for international services, PAC don’t want to see them used at times of the day when they’re not otherwise being utilised? That makes a lot of sense doesn’t it.
So lots of naysayers saying to QF ‘suck it up’, no one putting much thought into how to utilise the existing facilities in a way that is win/ win for both airline and PAC. How typically Australian.
That still doesn’t solve the issue of the aeroplane doing BNE- PER as a domestic service and then needing to transfer terminals.
It's a pity the WA govt didn't see the need to chip in and build "fantastic facilities" in the other terminal for all the rest of their taxpayers international travel needs.