QF17 to Argentina Turnback

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15th Nov 2010, 20:55

#41 (permalink)

RampDog

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Just backing up on KB's post, why is it that the media haven't made a major comment on the air return of SQ212 yesterday. I watched the SQ 744 taxi back to Bay 25 with 2 fire tenders following, and my first thought was "I bet this isn't mentioned in the news tonight". If it was a security issue and obviously not a blown donk or smoking cockpit, is that not newsworthy, given the paranoia that the media whips up over aviation security. In line with the current trend of reporting any issue with aircraft making returns, we should expect unbiased reporting (disregard accurate, that's not in the equation!) from our newspapers and elecronic media. Perhaps they should all set aside a daily round up of aviation breakdowns, schedule disruptions and even provide links to aviation websites, because there is obviously plenty of marketable public interest (i.e filling media space between the ads!). When they get bored with that they could include train, bus and motor vehicle accidents and incidents, there would be no space left for ads!
One other point, can any journalist reading this explain why the Emirates A340 tail strike incident in Melbourne in March 2009, doesn't ever get mentioned (it was bordering on catastrophic), while Qantas is always fair game? Is the media's agenda to topple another "tall poppy", we Aussie's have become experts at that!
End of rant

15th Nov 2010, 20:56

#42 (permalink)

wiggy

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Quote:

Ken's got a point about media selectivity. Brisbane had several overnight diversions the other day ......... The local media wrote it up as '200 Qantas passengers stranded in Brisbane' with nary a mention of the other carriers.

If I may butt as a pom: it's the same the world over. Even if the whole of LHR has gone to hell in a handcart (which it does every time it snows) the UK media will find and lead with the stranded BA passengers story. We/you are the local tall poppies I guess, so it goes with the territory (doesn't mean it's right though).

15th Nov 2010, 21:34

#43 (permalink)

noip

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Age of 747 fleet.

Oldest is 21
Most are over 15
Three are about 10-12
The ERs are 5-7 years old.

South American route. Correct - ETOPS is not an option.

For return EZE-SYD, fly down E coast of S America, over Cape Horn and keep going. For most of the flight, two closest diversions are either Cape Horn or Christchurch. Tahiti is over 2000nm to the North.

Even though Antarctica is only 150nm away (you fly over the ice pack for several hours), McMurdo is still 1400nm away.

It is very lonely.

n

15th Nov 2010, 23:06

#44 (permalink)

Capt Fathom

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Quote:

two closest diversions are either Cape Horn or Christchurch.
Tahiti is over 2000nm to the North.
Even though Antarctica is only 150nm away....McMurdo is still 1400nm away.

And this is world's best practice ?? How do you get approval to conduct a sector like that?

15th Nov 2010, 23:43

#45 (permalink)

kimir

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Qantas gets bashed in the media because the general expectation of the media and the travelling public, whether correct or not, is higher than the other carriers. Therefore when something happens, it has more shock factor. Many aviation experts/analysts come out in defence of the red rat at the same time "no,no, they are still the safest" etc, etc. The good with the bad i'm afraid.

15th Nov 2010, 23:57

#46 (permalink)

Fris B. Fairing

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Quote:

<<then we were met by all the fire engines and fire brigade, there were reams and reams of them>>

Isn't a ream 500?

Yes but they were only there on paper.

16th Nov 2010, 00:06

#47 (permalink)

Flt.Lt Zed

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NZ television suggest QF should swap the red kangaroo for a red boomerang.

16th Nov 2010, 00:25

#48 (permalink)

noip

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CF

Um, are you suggesting it is better to be 4hrs from an emergency standard airport in a 777 on one engine rather than 4.5 hrs from a proper one in a 747 on three?

I know which I prefer.

Have to run ....

16th Nov 2010, 05:58

#49 (permalink)

StallBoy

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"Kiltrash"
There are no alternative airports on this route.

Every time I fly back to Sydney on QF18 I hope the headwinds arn't to bad as sometimes the plane gets down to below 450mph and the pilots keep heading south to find less headwind. I believe that if anything happened in the middle of the flight like loss of an engine the only diversion would be Christchurch or Auckland if you were lucky and some flights do land in Auckland on the way back to take on extra fuel.
It s definately one of the most dangerous flights in the world but if the winds are against you the flight over Antarctica is definately worth the risk in the best 747-400's ever built.

Last edited by StallBoy; 17th Nov 2010 at 01:15.

16th Nov 2010, 09:25

#50 (permalink)

kimir

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With a non contained cabin fire it doesn't really matter how many engines you have!

Loss of engine wouldn't be the worst of your worries.

16th Nov 2010, 09:51

#51 (permalink)

noip

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kimir,

Out of control cabin fire - doesn't matter where you are, result is the same. I seem to remember a DC-9 in Nth America - close to a stack of airports and by the time they landed the aircraft was pretty well destroyed.

By that logic, we stay within 100nm of an airport.

n

16th Nov 2010, 10:54

#52 (permalink)

Bankstown

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Quote:

RR have come out of this looking very shabby........

So We'll order a few hundred more for the 787.......

Yet another incompetent decision from Qf management.

Credit where credit is due.....QF has selected the GEnX engine for the 787s:
About Qantas - Our Company - Fleet Developments - Boeing787

16th Nov 2010, 10:55

#53 (permalink)

kimir

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120 nm would be better! not very practical though. I'm just illustrating that it doesn't matter how many engines you have 2,3 or 4. Very reliable and powerful these days. Other things worry me more than a straight flame out.

16th Nov 2010, 17:07

#54 (permalink)

qfguy

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Quote:

NZ television suggest QF should swap the red kangaroo for a red boomerang

Last time i checked the skippy on the tail was white....

16th Nov 2010, 18:17

#55 (permalink)

givemewings

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Quote:

Possibly because a couple of slides blowing and a bird strike that required an engine change are on a slightly different scale to flap tracks fairings falling into some back yard,

You know that, and *I* know that, but my point was, for a media who usually love to sensationalise everything that goes wrong on flights, they were surprisingly quiet on these (even the nosewheel incident got very light coverage compared to some happenings at QF that were of comparable severity)

Although they did mention the Jetstar turnback, I suspect it was only because they're a Qantas subsidiary

My point about the media 'agenda' is that they clearly see a wounded animal and kick it when it's down. If they cared to actually do some research they'd have seen some far worthier stories in the charter airline segment over the last few years... but as usual, if it's not a big jet that just missed a school... it doesn't sell papers!

17th Nov 2010, 05:56

#56 (permalink)

7378FE

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The same aircraft having had the "smoke from the instrument panel" problem solved, made it to over to JNB, however didn't make it back to SYD, currently on the deck in JNB after a bird strike on take off.

Ok, these things happen, and the crews do an excellent job in returning the aircraft, but when you are paying top dollar on your way way to a crucial meeting to seal a deal, i'm sorry but I can't rely on QANTAS to deliver the goods any more.

......and this will affect QANTAS more than Mr & Mrs Smith from bogan town out on their once in a lifetime trip to somewhere overseas.

17th Nov 2010, 06:23

#57 (permalink)

MrWooby

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7378FE: Probably the most stupid thing passengers say is " that's the last time I fly QF, from now on I will fly with XXX". You know what, you go and fly Emirate's, Singapore or Cathy and you will get the same thing happening there also. Delays, turnbacks etc happen to all airlines. Its part of flying. If you really want to get somewhere for a critical meeting you need to allow a few extra days in case your flight gets delayed. I've been flying for 30 years and I would not rely on ANY airline to arrive as scheduled, there is just so much that can go wrong. Most passengers read the papers and see the ridiculous reporting about Qantas, they assume wrongly that other airlines always depart on time, and never breakdown. Do some research before you change airlines, Think about the Emirates 340 that came ever so close to being Australia's worst aviation accident, or the one out of Joburg that nearly failed to get airborne. Also think about the Singapore tailscrape out of auckand, or the Singapore 747 that took off from a notamed closed runway, hit earthmoving equipment and killed about 80 pax.