Its Time Mr.Joyce
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Qantas A Better Business and Airline
Qantas used to have greater input from its employees.They were empowered and treated with respect.Then old scrotum face came along and the rot set in.
Employees are now kept at a distance.In particular pilots.
The problem with Qantas is that management has taken the corporation on a journey......they just havent taken the employees with them.
The management for the last ten years have had their noses in the trough.
One employee in particular tried to flog the business off and make himself $60 mil in the process.
So yes we are fortunate to be employed.Not because of management but rather in spite of them
So give that little cliche a rest
Many of us thought Joyce would be different.....he ain't!!
Clifford is the puppet master and after having met him let me say he is just a taller version of Dixon..ie a bigger prique
Employees are now kept at a distance.In particular pilots.
The problem with Qantas is that management has taken the corporation on a journey......they just havent taken the employees with them.
The management for the last ten years have had their noses in the trough.
One employee in particular tried to flog the business off and make himself $60 mil in the process.
So yes we are fortunate to be employed.Not because of management but rather in spite of them
So give that little cliche a rest
Many of us thought Joyce would be different.....he ain't!!
Clifford is the puppet master and after having met him let me say he is just a taller version of Dixon..ie a bigger prique
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There was a unanimous vote of no confidence in the J* CEO at that time.
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FGD135
I think you will find that those sentiments are actually one and the same, only the '80's mentality Management have yet to work that out!
Was the "no confidence" in looking after the pilot's best interests or in looking after the airline's best interests?
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Employees Are Smart
We have figured out that our future is tied to the future of the business.
If management takes it down we will go down with it.We dont want them to screw it up.They appear to be doing their best to do exactly that.
There are a lot better qualified people on the shop floor to run Qantas.
This myth that managment knows best is exactly that ....a myth.
The whole management structure is based on a mate's network...not on ability.
What does Clifford know about airlines?He knows where 2K is.Thats about it
Jocye is a number cruncher who is still surprised by his enormous good luck.
He still believes the crap he is fed by the middle ranking snouts.
A naive Irish number cruncher helping run an Australian Icon into the ground.
Its called CFIT
If management takes it down we will go down with it.We dont want them to screw it up.They appear to be doing their best to do exactly that.
There are a lot better qualified people on the shop floor to run Qantas.
This myth that managment knows best is exactly that ....a myth.
The whole management structure is based on a mate's network...not on ability.
What does Clifford know about airlines?He knows where 2K is.Thats about it
Jocye is a number cruncher who is still surprised by his enormous good luck.
He still believes the crap he is fed by the middle ranking snouts.
A naive Irish number cruncher helping run an Australian Icon into the ground.
Its called CFIT
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I don't believe the Airlines best interest has been a key factor in alot of decision making.
Other poor decisions would be:
1. APA private equity bid
2. Freight collusion on pricing
3. Denying travel agents commisions
4. Not buying fuel efficient aircraft earlier, when they had the chance (B777)
5. Setting up Australian Airlines only to shut it down
6. Paying tax on behalf of the former CEO
7. Segmenting the airline into individual business units only to amalgamate them again.
8. The confrontation with the engineers over reasonable pay increases.
9. Pay freezes for employees post September 11th & Sars, then backing up with record profits.
10. Not affording employees reasonable career progression to J*, read that take a command at J* & you have to resign from QF.
11. Pulling out of ports like Rome & Paris, telling staff if you can't go daily its not worth servicing the market. Then within 2 years setting up an airline with a fleet of new aircraft.
12. Forcing staff to take annual & long service leave & continue to recruit in a subsidiary.
These are just a few examples of the top of my head.
Admittedly, AJ has inherited alot of issues.
Staff engagement being one of them & they wonder why.
Other poor decisions would be:
1. APA private equity bid
2. Freight collusion on pricing
3. Denying travel agents commisions
4. Not buying fuel efficient aircraft earlier, when they had the chance (B777)
5. Setting up Australian Airlines only to shut it down
6. Paying tax on behalf of the former CEO
7. Segmenting the airline into individual business units only to amalgamate them again.
8. The confrontation with the engineers over reasonable pay increases.
9. Pay freezes for employees post September 11th & Sars, then backing up with record profits.
10. Not affording employees reasonable career progression to J*, read that take a command at J* & you have to resign from QF.
11. Pulling out of ports like Rome & Paris, telling staff if you can't go daily its not worth servicing the market. Then within 2 years setting up an airline with a fleet of new aircraft.
12. Forcing staff to take annual & long service leave & continue to recruit in a subsidiary.
These are just a few examples of the top of my head.
Admittedly, AJ has inherited alot of issues.
Staff engagement being one of them & they wonder why.
Qantas is still in business today - and you all still have your jobs with them - because of the actions of management.
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Yes Steve, I will elaborate. Let me take up just one of the issues.
You spun a good story on the 7pm Project saying that QantasLink Dash 8's had unsafe flightdeck doors which could be opened with a paddlepop stick.
Your response to my previous post was that you said no untruths. Seeing you must be a man of impeccable integrity I can only assume that you don't know that the alleged flaws with the said Dash 8's has been fully investigated by a team of CASA airworthiness inspectors. This inspection found that there were no matters of concern, the doors are fully compliant with all safety/regulatory affairs. Would you please go back to the 7pm Project and set the record straight.
You spun a good story on the 7pm Project saying that QantasLink Dash 8's had unsafe flightdeck doors which could be opened with a paddlepop stick.
Your response to my previous post was that you said no untruths. Seeing you must be a man of impeccable integrity I can only assume that you don't know that the alleged flaws with the said Dash 8's has been fully investigated by a team of CASA airworthiness inspectors. This inspection found that there were no matters of concern, the doors are fully compliant with all safety/regulatory affairs. Would you please go back to the 7pm Project and set the record straight.
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Hey Beatup,
If the flight deck door is fully compliant, how come you can open it with a paddle pop stick?
Maybe those responsible for the doors compliance have treated it with the same philosophy used by RR with their IP Turbines.
You just don't get it do you.
- T.T 40 years maintenance experience, 29 years a LAME
If the flight deck door is fully compliant, how come you can open it with a paddle pop stick?
Maybe those responsible for the doors compliance have treated it with the same philosophy used by RR with their IP Turbines.
You just don't get it do you.
- T.T 40 years maintenance experience, 29 years a LAME
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Thick thumbs, you've missed the point. You CANT open the doors with a paddlepop stick. Neither with a Drumstick, Cornetto, Magnum... blah blah...
Lets just say that CASA took with them more than a paddlepop stick when they checked the doors - in response to these allegations - and the all clear was given.
Lets just say that CASA took with them more than a paddlepop stick when they checked the doors - in response to these allegations - and the all clear was given.
FGD135:
With respect it's you that don't get it. The management and employees get it absolutely, so do the shareholders.
The absolute function of management is to maximise the value of the corporation IN THE LONG TERM.
... For management that does NOT mean maximising the value of your annual bonus for the next Five years before you retire or resign, leaving a smoking wreckage of cost cutting and reduced capability behind you. That is the problem - managers have every incentive to do exactly that, and devil take the poor sod who has to clean up the mess.
....For employees, who may be starting what they hope will be a Forty year career with the same employer, what do you expect them to do when they see managers taking short sighted decisions that the employees know will compromise the very existence of the company in Five or Ten years time?
...For shareholders, what is the value of their shares after QF loses Two hulls in succession? Will they sell to Singapore when the bid is inevitably made after the accident? Don't expect senior management to give you good advice, senior management contracts these days have an automatic golden parachute attached to any "change of control" of a business. Don't expect the Board to tell you to do anything but sell your shares. As for the employees, you can expect the new owners to blame you for the accidents you tried so hard to avoid!
You saw this behaviour with Dixon and the privatisation bid, what makes you think that the same mindset is not at work right now? If QF is sold or taken over, these guys are fully protected and will be rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Why would they care about employees or shareholders, let alone the long suffering Australian public?
THEY DON"T CARE. THEY WIN NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
If any of the posters to this thread were running Qantas they would go broke within weeks.
Running a business REQUIRES, from time to time, aggressive cost cutting and other measures in order to stay competitive.
Qantas is still in business today - and you all still have your jobs with them - because of the actions of management.
The airline business is not what it was 20 years ago. When will you lot wake up to this reality?
Running a business REQUIRES, from time to time, aggressive cost cutting and other measures in order to stay competitive.
Qantas is still in business today - and you all still have your jobs with them - because of the actions of management.
The airline business is not what it was 20 years ago. When will you lot wake up to this reality?
The absolute function of management is to maximise the value of the corporation IN THE LONG TERM.
... For management that does NOT mean maximising the value of your annual bonus for the next Five years before you retire or resign, leaving a smoking wreckage of cost cutting and reduced capability behind you. That is the problem - managers have every incentive to do exactly that, and devil take the poor sod who has to clean up the mess.
....For employees, who may be starting what they hope will be a Forty year career with the same employer, what do you expect them to do when they see managers taking short sighted decisions that the employees know will compromise the very existence of the company in Five or Ten years time?
...For shareholders, what is the value of their shares after QF loses Two hulls in succession? Will they sell to Singapore when the bid is inevitably made after the accident? Don't expect senior management to give you good advice, senior management contracts these days have an automatic golden parachute attached to any "change of control" of a business. Don't expect the Board to tell you to do anything but sell your shares. As for the employees, you can expect the new owners to blame you for the accidents you tried so hard to avoid!
You saw this behaviour with Dixon and the privatisation bid, what makes you think that the same mindset is not at work right now? If QF is sold or taken over, these guys are fully protected and will be rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Why would they care about employees or shareholders, let alone the long suffering Australian public?
THEY DON"T CARE. THEY WIN NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.
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Thick thumbs, you've missed the point. You CANT open the doors with a paddlepop stick. Neither with a Drumstick, Cornetto, Magnum... blah blah...
Lets just say that CASA took with them more than a paddlepop stick when they checked the doors - in response to these allegations - and the all clear was given.
Lets just say that CASA took with them more than a paddlepop stick when they checked the doors - in response to these allegations - and the all clear was given.
I'll get up to the shops and grab some stuff for dinner. Cook it up and respond in full later tonight.
Steve P
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Other poor decisions would be:
1. APA private equity bid
2. Freight collusion on pricing
3. Denying travel agents commisions
4. Not buying fuel efficient aircraft earlier, when they had the chance (B777)
5. Setting up Australian Airlines only to shut it down
6. Paying tax on behalf of the former CEO
7. Segmenting the airline into individual business units only to amalgamate them again.
8. The confrontation with the engineers over reasonable pay increases.
9. Pay freezes for employees post September 11th & Sars, then backing up with record profits.
10. Not affording employees reasonable career progression to J*, read that take a command at J* & you have to resign from QF.
11. Pulling out of ports like Rome & Paris, telling staff if you can't go daily its not worth servicing the market. Then within 2 years setting up an airline with a fleet of new aircraft.
12. Forcing staff to take annual & long service leave & continue to recruit in a subsidiary.
1. APA private equity bid
2. Freight collusion on pricing
3. Denying travel agents commisions
4. Not buying fuel efficient aircraft earlier, when they had the chance (B777)
5. Setting up Australian Airlines only to shut it down
6. Paying tax on behalf of the former CEO
7. Segmenting the airline into individual business units only to amalgamate them again.
8. The confrontation with the engineers over reasonable pay increases.
9. Pay freezes for employees post September 11th & Sars, then backing up with record profits.
10. Not affording employees reasonable career progression to J*, read that take a command at J* & you have to resign from QF.
11. Pulling out of ports like Rome & Paris, telling staff if you can't go daily its not worth servicing the market. Then within 2 years setting up an airline with a fleet of new aircraft.
12. Forcing staff to take annual & long service leave & continue to recruit in a subsidiary.
I would love to see the figures QF would have saved if they had got 777's when they were introduced, my meagre brain would reckon a few billion at least!
These incidents are regretable but it does just highlight how pathetic all the management are when it comes to operational things, and I beleive it is a good time for the unions to highlight crap decisions made by these fools. Everyone you speak to are praising front line staff but basically dismissing the minions in the management areas, its great to see!
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I don't get it
How is it everytime QF has an engine fail they trot out the same line being 'its not a safety issue'
Joyce has been quoted twice in the past few days insinuating that losing an engine is no big deal - statements along the line that 'these things happen', ' its happened before'....
IMO until the top dog starts saying things like 'its unacceptable' and 'we will move to end this series of failures' - I won't be flying QF.
Joyce has been quoted twice in the past few days insinuating that losing an engine is no big deal - statements along the line that 'these things happen', ' its happened before'....
IMO until the top dog starts saying things like 'its unacceptable' and 'we will move to end this series of failures' - I won't be flying QF.
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For all it's wirth
Is Olivia Wirth a blood relative of Darth ?
Same cold emotionless stare, same ice like attitude, they even flick and prune their hair in the same fashion !!
Swiss cheese for dinner ??? Look forward to your response Steve. Keep up the good work mate...
Same cold emotionless stare, same ice like attitude, they even flick and prune their hair in the same fashion !!
I'll get up to the shops and grab some stuff for dinner. Cook it up and respond in full later tonight.
Steve P
Steve P
Steve, I have never asked you a question. I've only ever stated facts!
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AN1944, you have obviously been there and seen it, before- concur 'Absolutely'. As a counterpoint, where have the last two CEO's of QAN shared a common employer???
Sunfish- you've got it in one. The minute there is partial equity for the 'supposed' engagement of a 'particular employee' as opposed to 'accountable' equity (or onus of equity vis S28-BE of the Act) under the Civil Aviation Act, you have trouble as far as the said 'Employee' and the balance point between absolute responsibility & action/judgement to the building of/security of an AOC/Company Aeronautical Integrity vrs personal maximisation of reward....
And if we look back, we have seen it before in the recent (post 2000) new start Aviation Enterprises and their struggles with the Low Cost Model and Compliance & Business Stability/Integrity issues they've faced.
Well said both of you.
Rgs
S28- BE
Sunfish- you've got it in one. The minute there is partial equity for the 'supposed' engagement of a 'particular employee' as opposed to 'accountable' equity (or onus of equity vis S28-BE of the Act) under the Civil Aviation Act, you have trouble as far as the said 'Employee' and the balance point between absolute responsibility & action/judgement to the building of/security of an AOC/Company Aeronautical Integrity vrs personal maximisation of reward....
And if we look back, we have seen it before in the recent (post 2000) new start Aviation Enterprises and their struggles with the Low Cost Model and Compliance & Business Stability/Integrity issues they've faced.
Well said both of you.
Rgs
S28- BE