VA EBA ???
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: AUS
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I think I am going to get my head chopped off when I say the following;
I respect the knowledge, skill and the huge responsibility of say a B777 captain and I recognise that the pay is somewhat less than other Australian airlines, but I still can't help think - well how much is enough pay?
I remember reading that one's happiness does not improve past $100 000. When I see a figure around $200 000 I seriously think - does anyone really need that much money? There are so many that have so little, in my little brain it just sort of seems a bit crazy Yes we live in a society where, that is the main way we reward people's skill - but is anyone really "worth" that much? Maybe no one would do the job if the didn't get this sort of pay.
Don't freak out by my comments, it's just food for thought.........
I respect the knowledge, skill and the huge responsibility of say a B777 captain and I recognise that the pay is somewhat less than other Australian airlines, but I still can't help think - well how much is enough pay?
I remember reading that one's happiness does not improve past $100 000. When I see a figure around $200 000 I seriously think - does anyone really need that much money? There are so many that have so little, in my little brain it just sort of seems a bit crazy Yes we live in a society where, that is the main way we reward people's skill - but is anyone really "worth" that much? Maybe no one would do the job if the didn't get this sort of pay.
Don't freak out by my comments, it's just food for thought.........
There are so many that have so little
That aside, those salaries published are higher than most of their US competitors for a 777. Be careful they don't turnaround and start a US base...unlikely but a possibility if the wage keeps going up. United have >1000 pilots on furlough.
.....Zimbabwe is a case in point they had so much but just pi$$d it up against the wall......
Regarding EBA's etc., unfortunately, we have to accept the big end of town have got their hands on the transport sector on a huge scale. Private equity players don't get excited or passionate about great service, long established brands or customer satisfaction. They don't aspire to skill upgrades or advancing their technical expertise. ITS A VEHICLE FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY - WITH YOU DRIVING!
Play the same game as best you can. If you really wish/ need to stay in transport, you have to develop other revenue streams.
What I think is definitely up for debate though is the bond. If the job is no longer as valuable (i.e continues to earn a lower remuneration) why should I pay so much for the training, either in dollar terms or by way of a bond???
Any comments?
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
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Started writing a reply and just concluded that I'm completely out of touch and possibly upsetting/offending people.
I've gone one better and deleted my posts as they are really way off the mark when comparing it with some of the stuff written here.
Mr. Hat self banning from a thread due to his way out ideological differences....
I've gone one better and deleted my posts as they are really way off the mark when comparing it with some of the stuff written here.
Mr. Hat self banning from a thread due to his way out ideological differences....
Don't do that, ruins the excitement of looking at PPRune! Look i think everyone is getting abit carried away with this, I am in no way a company rep
But in bargaining the company has to go low, however most of the crew beleive they went too low
. No one in their right mind would vote for such a 
deal. So lets see how it all pans out. But if it drags out i think there may be trouble down the line
But in bargaining the company has to go low, however most of the crew beleive they went too low. No one in their right mind would vote for such a deal. So lets see how it all pans out. But if it drags out i think there may be trouble down the line
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Qantas mainline is the standard, go from there!
777 @ QF744 pay, it is much bigger than A330.
777 @ QF744 pay, it is much bigger than A330.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Hey Bogdan, go read Sully's book, and them come back and tell me what YOU think is fair compensation. We don't get paid for the every day operation. We get paid on what we're supposed to do when things turn to ****. Bet if you're on a plane where things turn to **** you'd up your value, if you thought it would help you get there in one piece.
Join Date: May 2001
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Airborne soon,
There are more QF pilots than any other airlines' in Australia so why are they NOT the standard?
Also - I am not "wishing" for QF pay [already get it]
QF doesn't want to offer our conditions either, we have to fight for them,
next year perhaps fight pretty hard!
There are more QF pilots than any other airlines' in Australia so why are they NOT the standard?
Also - I am not "wishing" for QF pay [already get it]
QF doesn't want to offer our conditions either, we have to fight for them,
next year perhaps fight pretty hard!
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Well you go and put up the good fight then. But just claiming it should be the standard will not induce other airlines to offer those same conditions. Whilst ever someone, somewhere is willing to work for less, why should they? Business these days works on the principle of viable alternatives....
1. Once there are no viable alternatives (within Oz or most of the world) for highly paid QF pilots then the rapid erosion of your conditions will ensue. Your bargaining with the company will be based on well it's still better than all the other jobs out there, leave if you want but we don't think you will.
2. Couple that situation with an overall reduction in the fleet, by consolidating QF brand onto a few key premium routes and J* everywhere else and you've got the perfect conditions for redundancy and so who wants to keep their job?
Other airlines are not about to step up and provide a viable alternative for QF pilots.
Whilst ever someone, somewhere is willing to work for less, why should they? Business these days works on the principle of viable alternatives....1. Once there are no viable alternatives (within Oz or most of the world) for highly paid QF pilots then the rapid erosion of your conditions will ensue. Your bargaining with the company will be based on well it's still better than all the other jobs out there, leave if you want but we don't think you will.
2. Couple that situation with an overall reduction in the fleet, by consolidating QF brand onto a few key premium routes and J* everywhere else and you've got the perfect conditions for redundancy and so who wants to keep their job?
Other airlines are not about to step up and provide a viable alternative for QF pilots.
Last edited by AirborneSoon; 4th Nov 2010 at 22:42.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Also what Bastard said; trouble today is from plumbers to those that move money and instruments around screens in high rises, most are paid more than the FOs at airlines. Something wrong here.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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$60K p.a. is a paycut for most GA/Turboprop pilots
$90K p.a. is a paycut for most F/Os with 2000 hrs jet >40T (or whatever the SFO requirement is)
$160K p.a. is a massive pay cut for anyone with jet command >40T
Go forth you VIPA and AIPA members with strong heart and soul because if it all turns to custard, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the pacific, the hospitality of 300+ ppl are on your shoulders alone, plus their families and the livelihood/reputation of your fellow employees and company.
$90K p.a. is a paycut for most F/Os with 2000 hrs jet >40T (or whatever the SFO requirement is)
$160K p.a. is a massive pay cut for anyone with jet command >40T
Go forth you VIPA and AIPA members with strong heart and soul because if it all turns to custard, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the pacific, the hospitality of 300+ ppl are on your shoulders alone, plus their families and the livelihood/reputation of your fellow employees and company.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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While everyones' mouths are dropping at the figures put on the table, what I'm astonished at is the fact that when HR were queried on what the company's expectations were for productivity/hours worked by the pilot group in return for these figures, their response was "38 hour week."
In other words, the people representing HR and the company in these negotiations simply have no concept of the working hours and environment of a professional pilot. If we're going to go down that path, does this mean we should now be pushing for time-and-a-half pay for weekends? How about double-time for public holidays too? Or are we now going to close down over Christmas and Easter?!?
Up to this point I've been very impressed with our new fearless leader, and there's no question he is a much needed breath of fresh air after God Bretfrey. However, I can't help but ask myself right now if he is aware just what kind of people are representing his company in these negotiations? And if so, what is he doing about it? Because if this is the calibre of people he has endorsed to conduct negotiations for and on behalf of the airline, it seriously undermines his reputation as a highly respected airline executive. No-one should know better than JB that this is anything BUT a Monday-Friday, 9-to-5 industry, but clearly no-one has yet informed his HR people.
In other words, the people representing HR and the company in these negotiations simply have no concept of the working hours and environment of a professional pilot. If we're going to go down that path, does this mean we should now be pushing for time-and-a-half pay for weekends? How about double-time for public holidays too? Or are we now going to close down over Christmas and Easter?!?
Up to this point I've been very impressed with our new fearless leader, and there's no question he is a much needed breath of fresh air after God Bretfrey. However, I can't help but ask myself right now if he is aware just what kind of people are representing his company in these negotiations? And if so, what is he doing about it? Because if this is the calibre of people he has endorsed to conduct negotiations for and on behalf of the airline, it seriously undermines his reputation as a highly respected airline executive. No-one should know better than JB that this is anything BUT a Monday-Friday, 9-to-5 industry, but clearly no-one has yet informed his HR people.
Last edited by The Bunglerat; 24th Jan 2011 at 12:55.