Wikiposts
Search
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Merged: Senate Inquiry

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 29th Aug 2011, 09:26
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Sydney Australia
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
QANTAS- Finally the Truth on QANTAS is Coming Out!

QANTAS- Finally the truth is coming out!
This confirms what others have been saying for a while about how Qantas is subsidising Jetstar to its own detriment and to circumvent the Qantas Sale Act.

For those who haven't seen it, Senator Xenophon's speech of 23rd Aug is reproduced below.

Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) (19:37): I rise to speak tonight on an issue that is close to the hearts of many Australians, and that is the future of our national carrier, Qantas. At 90, Qantas is the world's oldest continuously running airline. It is an iconic Australian company. Its story is woven into the story of Australia and Australians have long taken pride in the service and safety standards provided by our national carrier. Who didn't feel a little proud when Dustin Hoffman uttered the immortal line in Rain Man, 'Qantas never crashed'?

While it is true that Qantas never crashes, the sad reality is that Qantas is being deliberately trashed by management in the pursuit of short-term profits and at the expense of its workers and passengers. For a long time, Qantas management has been pushing the line that Qantas international is losing money and that Jetstar is profitable. Tonight, it is imperative to expose those claims for the misinformation they are. The reality is that Qantas has long been used to subsidise Jetstar in order to make Jetstar look profitable and Qantas look like a burden. In a moment, I will provide detailed allegations of cost-shifting that I have sourced from within the Qantas Group, and when you know the facts you quickly see a pattern. When there is a cost to be paid, Qantas pays it, and when there is a profit to be made, Jetstar makes it.

But first we need to ask ourselves: why? Why would management want Qantas to look unprofitable? Why would they want to hide the cost of a competing brand within their group, namely Jetstar, in amongst the costs faced by Qantas?

To understand that, you need to go back to the days when Qantas was being privatised. When Qantas was privatised the Qantas Sale Act 1992 imposed a number of conditions, which in turn created a number of problems for any management group that wanted to flog off parts of the business. Basically, Qantas has to maintain its principal place of operations here in Australia, but that does not stop management selling any subsidiaries, which brings us to Jetstar.

Qantas has systematically built up the low-cost carrier at the expense of the parent company. I have been provided with a significant number of examples where costs which should have been billed back to Jetstar have in fact been paid for by Qantas. These are practices that I believe Qantas and Jetstar management need to explain. For example, when Jetstar took over the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore route, replacing Qantas flights, a deal was struck that required Qantas to provide Jetstar with $6 million a year in revenue. Why? Why would one part of the business give up a profitable route like that and then be asked to pay for the privilege? Then there are other subsidies when it comes to freight. On every sector Jetstar operates an A330, Qantas pays $6,200 to $6,400 for freight space regardless of actual uplift. When you do the calculations, this turns out to be a small fortune. Based on 82 departures a week, that is nearly half-a-million dollars a week or $25˝ million a year.

Then there are the arrangements within the airport gates. In Melbourne, for example, my information from inside the Qantas group is that Jetstar does not pay for any gates, but instead Qantas domestic is charged for the gates. My question for Qantas management is simple: are these arrangements replicated right around Australia and why is Qantas paying Jetstar's bills? Why does Qantas lease five check-in counters at Sydney Terminal 2, only to let Jetstar use one for free? It has been reported to me that there are other areas where Jetstar's costs magically become Qantas's costs. For example, Jetstar does not have a treasury department and has only one person in government affairs. I am told Qantas's legal department also does free work for Jetstar.

Then there is the area of disruption handling where flights are cancelled and people need to be rebooked. Here, insiders tell me, Qantas handles all rebookings and the traffic is all one way. It is extremely rare for a Qantas passenger to be rebooked on a Jetstar flight, but Jetstar passengers are regularly rebooked onto Qantas flights. I am informed that Jetstar never pays Qantas for the cost of those rebooked passengers and yet Jetstar gets to keep the revenue from the original bookings. This, I am told, is worth millions of dollars every year. So Jetstar gets the profit while Qantas bears the costs of carriage. It has also been reported to me that when Qantas provides an aircraft to Jetstar to cover an unserviceable plane, Jetstar does not pay for the use of this plane.

Yet another example relates to the Qantas Club. Jetstar passengers can and do use the Qantas Club but Jetstar does not pay for the cost of any of this. So is Qantas really losing money? Or is it profitable but simply losing money on paper because it is carrying so many costs incurred by Jetstar? We have been told by Qantas management that the changes that will effectively gut Qantas are necessary because Qantas international is losing money but, given the inside information I have just detailed, I would argue those claims need to be reassessed.

Indeed, given these extensive allegations of hidden costs, it would be foolish to take management's word that Qantas international is losing money. So why would Qantas want to make it look like Qantas international is losing money? Remember the failed 2007 private equity bid by the Allco Finance Group. It was rejected by shareholders, and thank goodness it was, for I am told that what we are seeing now is effectively a strategy of private equity sell-off by stealth.

Here is how it works. You have to keep Qantas flying to avoid breaching the Qantas Sale Act but that does not stop you from moving assets out of Qantas and putting them into an airline that you own but that is not controlled by the Qantas Sale Act. Then you work the figures to make it appear as though the international arm of Qantas is losing money. You use this to justify the slashing of jobs, maintenance standards and employment of foreign crews and, ultimately, the creation of an entirely new airlines to be based in Asia and which will not be called Qantas. The end result? Technically Qantas would still exist but it would end up a shell of its former self and the Qantas Group would end up with all these subsidiaries it can base overseas using poorly paid foreign crews with engineering and safety standards that do not match Australian standards. In time, if the Qantas Group wants to make a buck, they can flog these subsidiaries off for a tidy profit. Qantas management could pay the National Boys Choir and the Australian Girls Choir to run to the desert and sing about still calling Australia home, but people would not buy it. It is not just about feeling good about our national carrier—in times of trouble our national carrier plays a key strategic role. In an international emergency, in a time of war, a national carrier is required to freight resources and people around the country and around the world. Qantas also operates Qantas Defence Services, which conducts work for the RAAF. If Qantas is allowed to wither, who will meet these strategic needs?

I pay tribute to the 35,000 employees of the Qantas Group. At the forefront of the fight against the strategy of Qantas management have been the Qantas pilots, to whom millions of Australians have literally entrusted their lives. The Australian and International Pilots Association sees Qantas management strategy as a race to the bottom when it comes to service and safety. On 8 November last year, QF32 experienced a serious malfunction with the explosion of an engine on an A380 aircraft. In the wrong hands, that plane could have crashed. But it did not, in large part because the Qantas flight crew had been trained to exemplary world-class standards and knew how to cope with such a terrifying reality. I am deeply concerned that what is being pursued may well cause training levels to fall and that as a result safety standards in the Qantas Group may fall as well. AIPA pilots and the licensed aircraft engineers are not fighting for themselves; they are fighting for the Australian public. That is why I am deeply concerned about any action Qantas management may be considering taking against pilots who speak out in the public interest.

A lot of claims have been made about the financial state of Qantas international but given the information I have presented tonight, which has come from within the Qantas Group, I believe these claims by management are crying out for further serious forensic investigation. Qantas should not be allowed to face death by a thousand cuts—job cuts, route cuts, quality cuts, engineering cuts, wage cuts. None of this is acceptable and it must all be resisted for the sake of the pilots, the crews, the passengers and ultimately the future of our national carrier.
Capt Colonial is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 14:58
  #1302 (permalink)  
JDI
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Email to Senator Nick Xenophon

Please consider sending your own emails of support??

Senate Inquiries and Amendments to the Qantas Sale Act are the big weapons that just might save this fiasco??

[email protected]


To Senator Nick Xenephon,

Thank you so much for your efforts in attempting to break through the relentless lies blasted out from Qantas management. Without strong people like you one of this country's greatest icons will be dead forever. Their main game plan is unfortunately not so obvious to the majority of the Government and the Australian public in general (yet?) but thanks to people like you...."The truth must come out!!!"

I can only imagine the attempts of bribes to curb your honesty and direction and clearly you have not succumbed like just so many others have obviously done so, particularly many members of the media. (Cash for comment in Australia is obviously alive and well? - they couldn't possibly be that ignorant and lazy as to just keeping to regurgitate the Qantas management's propaganda and outright lies?)

Where to from here? How is the obvious "true game plan" of these crooks uncovered? Where is ASIC? Where is the Government? (sorry I feel for your frustrations there but that will obviously soon change!!) Nick, how can you force the ever so required Senate inquiries and crucial amendments to the Qantas Sale Act?

Please, please, please - Keep up your fantastic work!! This is desperate and there will be no coming back if their plans are left to unfold! 1,000 people unemployed is not even close to their final true game plan.....and I know you know what their REAL game plan is! (Simply unbelievable?)

You have just so many admirers who see you "making history here" (more than you could possibly realize!)

Kind regards
JDI is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 15:40
  #1303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That is without doubt, the finest speech I have ever heard or seen in print, from a politician, in the last 50 years. Well done, Senator Xenophon, let's put the corporate weasels to the torch, and see if they can stand up to serious forensic accounting scrutiny, as regards their fudged figures.

Anyone who has ever read a company quarterly or annual report, or who has been a witness to the scamming behaviour of company directors and CEO's as they try to pull the wool over shareholders and the publics eyes on a regular basis, knows full well, that truth is treated with disdain in the corporate boardrooms of this nation... and the QANTAS boardroom is no different in that respect. Just the memory of the previous, outrageous, private equity bid, is enough to make one puke.

I have been in on enough company directors and CEO's private discussions, to know how little regard they hold for morals, ethics, and the truth... particularly if a fast buck is to be made by conveniently "modifying" corporate accountancy figures, that are presented as the equivalent of tablets of stone, to unsuspecting shareholders, would-be investors, and Joe Public.

The employees of QANTAS, the pilots, the flight engineers, and Australians in general, deserve better than the current corporate spiel and weasel-words dished up by the current management of QANTAS.
Thank God for people like Nick Xenophon. The man is a Statesman, not a politician, and on a par with King O'Malley.
onetrack is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 16:32
  #1304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: FL290
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
The real issue is what was the response to Senator XENOPHON speech?

Many didnt even stir in fear of losing their Captain's Club membership. Great speech BUT what's the next move????????????
1a sound asleep is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 17:47
  #1305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Here. Over here.
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unfortunately, his credibility takes a hit when he states
While it is true that Qantas never crashes........
A little research into Qantas' history shows:
  • de Havilland DH-9C G-AUED 24 Mar 1927 - 3 died
  • de Havilland DH-86 VH-USG 15 Nov 1934 - 4 died
  • de Havilland DH-86 VH-USE 20 Feb 1942 - 9 died
  • Short S-23 (flying boat) VH-ADU 22 Apr 1943 - 13 died
  • Lockheed 18 Lodestar VH-CAB 26 Nov 1943 - 15 died
  • Short S-23 (flying boat) VH-ABB 11 Oct 1944 - 1 died
  • Lancastrian VH-EAS 07 April 1949 - 0 died
  • de Havilland Drover II VH-EBQ 16 Jul 1951 - 7 died
  • Lockheed L1049 VH-EAC 24 August 1960 - 0 died
  • Boeing B747 VH-OJH 22 September 1999 - 0 died
Hardly "never crashing".
Apart from that minor point though...
Desert Dingo is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 19:24
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Accurate description of Qantas losses. Nothing compared with the Company crash coming up. Xenephon is to be applauded.
4Greens is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 20:53
  #1307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: here and there
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
history or aircrashes does not need to be considered back to the avro days.
generally the start of the 'jet' age is the start of air safety records, say the
comet/707 era of the 60's.
else you are talking extraordinary times of warfare and ****e aircraft.
so, yes, qantas does have a perfect safety record.
good on the senator.
buttmonkey1 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 21:15
  #1308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,276
Received 37 Likes on 28 Posts
where is the 'hard' evidence for the SEnator's assertions. Statements from disgruntled employees don't count.

If you don't like Qantas then have the courage to vote with your feet and leave...my relation, the great Lester Brain did and was first GM for TAA....
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 21:29
  #1309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,091
Received 164 Likes on 36 Posts
General comment - not directed at anyone in particular.

Please take the time to find out how to spell the good Senator's name properly! (Xenophon) I reckon 50% of the posts have got a misspelt surname.

Not saying I'm perfect, and there's probably a typo in this which I'm sure someone will pick up, but a thank you letter is somewhat diluted by the fact his name is wrong!

Minor detail but small things like this should still matter in polite society, especially when you're writing to praise someone.

Alan Joyce on the other hand, spell his name anyway you like.
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 23:00
  #1310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 796
Received 23 Likes on 14 Posts
There's a C in there somewhere, isn't there?
Going Nowhere is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2011, 06:01
  #1311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Godzone
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's a C in there somewhere, isn't there?
Where is the "icon" for "rolling on the floor laughing"?
Oxidant is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2011, 08:59
  #1312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ditto!

TBM, if the government wants to start another airline right now I will come across and work for them!
Tankengine is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2011, 04:57
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...wikileaks.html

I would like to know why the above thread was closed? Very relevant material in relation to Fort Fumbles abilities. The info is nothing new. The date should have read '2009' instead of 2019, and it is all very true, the FAA were considering the downgrade.
Has Fort Fumble and it's team of legal eagles acted to shut this thread? If so, why hide the true facts? To me it is just another reason for the Senator to rip open this can of worms.
Are you readig all this Senator, are you asking the big qustions? Keep digging away, you are inching ever closer.
gobbledock is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2011, 07:44
  #1314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Are you being served?
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wikileaks and CASA

Yes a little premature closure there. It's in the mainstream media anyway. There is write up in the SMH by a knob called Dylan Welch. Seems he can't distinguish the difference between CASA and airlines.

CASA was doing observations on all QF Check captains 12 months ago so CASA could comply with the FAA directive. All went well I believe and now CASA is in FAA's good books.
Captain Peacock is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2011, 09:41
  #1315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CASA was doing observations on all QF Check captains 12 months ago so CASA could comply with the FAA directive. All went well I believe and now CASA is in FAA's good books.
Maybe so, but what were the issues (all of the issues) that lead to the FAA's concerns? I will tread cautiously here, but perhaps the Senator can delve a little deeper by using his parliamentary priveledges? Suffice to say there are plenty of questions worth asking of this mob.
gobbledock is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2011, 09:47
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe one of the greatest concerns was the fact that so many delegations were issued to the industry, as opposed to having true and proper examiners of airmen.......testing airmen.
Shed Dog Tosser is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2011, 09:57
  #1317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regulation witha capital 'S' for sh#t

I believe one of the greatest concerns was the fact that so many delegations were issued to the industry, as opposed to having true and proper examiners of airmen.......testing airmen.
Aagh yes, that old chestnut. Perhaps the issue is more like 'there were no control measures in place oversighting and tracking industry delegates'? If the Senator digs into this he will find out exactly what the issue was and why it became so out of hand, it's all there, he just needs to look. And they croon about 'worlds best practise' and being a 'robust' regulator? Spare me, incompetence is their middle name.
So many industry delegates? And why is that? Who is responsible for the farce that existed for decades? Wait for it, those same 'powers to be' and a#sclowns are still part of CASA's group of 'faceless men' decades later. Unless Xenaphon brings out a mighty big fuc#ing broom with a tonne of support behind him he is wasting his time and energy.
gobbledock is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2011, 11:49
  #1318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Chop Chop

The word from Canberra is that CASA had a bowel movement today and purged itself of an executive manager?
Anybody know the full details? My sources tell me that there has been joyous celebrations and a near orgy like frenzy of excitement since The Skull made the announcement! Talk around the streets of Spamberra is that the top tier are falling apart at the seams and that the beast is turning inward on itself. It's becoming a fight to the death, a battle of who can sacrifice who in order to reign supreme within the halls of 'Incompetence Inc' and draw the fattest tax payer funded salary for the longest!
Perhaps the gravy train is slowly winding to a stop at 'Game Over Station'? Certainly the internal disharmony at the top layer has been boiling for some time, so maybe the excellent work that Senator X is undertaking is starting to come to fruition? Either way, the departure of the Spamberra exec, or should I say the 'necessary sacrifice' should be seen as just the beginning not the end. There is still a need to remove a lot more 'scummy dross' from the bowels of
CASA so my advice to the Senator is keep working your mojo.
gobbledock is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2011, 14:22
  #1319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"The Mills of the Gods,
"The Mills of the Gods, Grind exceedingly slow, But grind exceedingly fine."
Attributed to Greek philosopher Sextus Empiricus.

September 7, 2011. One calendar month from today you will have one, and probably a one only chance to beat the "Culture of Fear" which grips this benighted industry by the throat.

If everyone who fears retribution, lets it be known that 'you' are afraid, for daring to speak the truth; then the people who hold power will know (at least) that you are afraid of speaking out and needful of protection. It's the 'thin soup' tail end of democracy, but it's a beginning.

If everyone who has a just, honest claim against the 'authority' submits a "confidential", under parliamentary privilege, statement of fact, without rancour, mendacity or even a small 'gilding of the Lily' it will be heard. Perhaps, it may not alter things one iota, but at least we tried and it's on the record.

Like one

Who having into truth, by telling of it,

Made such a sinner of his memory,

To credit his own lie.

The Tempest. ACT I Scene 2.


Albanese should resign; today, there are no more excuses.

The rot starts at the top and flows down hill, a corporate psycho and minions will only follow the 'big dogs' bark. Enough, for pities sake; enough.

A very ancient and fish-like smell.

The Tempest. ACT II Scene 2.


Submit your story to the Rural Affairs etc. Estimates Committee, DO NOT publish it at all, anywhere, but; if you must, not until you are 'protected' (get an acknowledgement). Privilege is not applicable until your comments are receipted – check the Senate web site. This is a democracy, you do have rights, please use them.

This above all: to thine ownself be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!"

--Lord Polonius, Hamlet Act I, Scene 3

Perhaps our erstwhile 'Authority' and their handlers would do well to reflect on the 11the century poet Omar Khayyam; (#545 Rubaiyat).

The moving finger writes; and having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancell half a line,
Nor all thy tears wash out a word of it


Sorry (but not too much) about the oblique (cryptic) references; but, as the man said "if you can't see your Willy in the blender".

Selah.
Kharon is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2011, 07:11
  #1320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I understand that the Director issued the following announcemnt:

Today I have set in place revised operating arrangements . . .
The effect of this revised arrangement is that Gary Harbor will be finishing up with CASA today.

The problem is of course that this comes several years too late. Harbor was always incompetent - and worse - and it is a pity that neither the Director, nor the Board, nor Messrs Aleck and Farquarson did anything about it for all these years even though they knew about his incompetence (and worse). He should have been sacked as soon as Byron left - instead the new Director promoted him and even put him on the Ethics Committee (shock- he wouldn't know how to spell the word let alone know what it means) - despite warnings and evidence to the contrary. Clearly the Board failed miserably in its oversight role by allowing that to occur. So it's good news - but too late and does no credit on the Director, the Board or the current Deputies.
Boratous is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.