Merged: Senate Inquiry
RAT Committee Hansard
The transcript is yet to be released/processed, probably because most public servants have the weekend off. To check if/ when it has been released go to the Australian Parliament website home page:
Parliament of Australia: Home
Then click on Hansard in the centre of the page:
Parliament of Australia: Hansard
Then click on Senate under Committees in the index to the left of the page:
Hansard - Senate Committees
Then click on Rural Affairs and Transport:
Hansard Senate Committees
And magically you are there.......!!?
Parliament of Australia: Home
Then click on Hansard in the centre of the page:
Parliament of Australia: Hansard
Then click on Senate under Committees in the index to the left of the page:
Hansard - Senate Committees
Then click on Rural Affairs and Transport:
Hansard Senate Committees
And magically you are there.......!!?
Good to see the Fin Review (Andrew Cleary) has a grip on the situation. In today's rag, in a story about Senate questions on Qlink stick shakers, he writes:
Better than an engine spin, I suppose. 
A stick shaker is when the control column on an aircraft vibrates rapidly to warn the pilot of an imminent engine stall.
What hope have we got when some Journalists (loosley applied term) are incapable of even basic research before they commit to paper. I know aviation is not eveyone's field, and some of the terms can be confusing, but good God almighty! 
There, I feel better now.
There, I feel better now.
Ahhh, you use stick pushers to give you a jumpstart when you have a flat battery don't you?
C'mon journos, it's not hard to get it right
C'mon journos, it's not hard to get it right
Inquiry Presentation Date Changed
It appears the date the Senate Inquiry will be presented to the Senate has been extended yet again!!
See link below:
Rural Affairs and Transport...: 1 Mar 2011: Senate debates (OpenAustralia.org)
See link below:
Rural Affairs and Transport...: 1 Mar 2011: Senate debates (OpenAustralia.org)
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CASA is bleeding
Perhaps the issues are not so much with the airlines but with the regulator ?
My sources tell me that CASA staff are bailing in droves. Not the pilots or engineers but the safety system people. One high level melbourne safety system person has gone to jetstar melbourne, one low level melbourne safety system person has also gone to jetstar melbourne. Another brisbane based program leader who was working on the CASA 787 program has also bailed and started with jetstar melbourne as their 787 implementation leader.One low level brisbane safety system person has gone to virgin blue brisbane, one high level safety system peron in sydney has been removed from doing work with virgin blue due to a conflict of interest and replaced with a high level brisbane safety system person who is in negotiation with virgin blue. My question is why all the safety system inspectors ? I hear they earn around $140 000 to $160 000 per year so are the airlines paying them that much or more ? I also heard that a stack of junior staff are bailing as well due to ongoing HR harrassment and have launched civil proceedings against CASA.
Seems that there are major issues at the regulator losing all that safety system capacity, a worrying trend and a sign of internal management and HR issues. My concern is with the loss of so many safety sensitive inspectors that safety standards will tumble. The airlines do not want the old inspectors from engineering or flying operations but are pinching the relatively new saftey (past 5 years) inspectors suddenly ? I also hear that senior management have lost the plot and are destroying projects and blowing millions in the process and mismanaging entire departments to the point that staff are leaving or suing. This is not a good look at all and it seems that Albanese is failing the travelling public.
My sources tell me that CASA staff are bailing in droves. Not the pilots or engineers but the safety system people. One high level melbourne safety system person has gone to jetstar melbourne, one low level melbourne safety system person has also gone to jetstar melbourne. Another brisbane based program leader who was working on the CASA 787 program has also bailed and started with jetstar melbourne as their 787 implementation leader.One low level brisbane safety system person has gone to virgin blue brisbane, one high level safety system peron in sydney has been removed from doing work with virgin blue due to a conflict of interest and replaced with a high level brisbane safety system person who is in negotiation with virgin blue. My question is why all the safety system inspectors ? I hear they earn around $140 000 to $160 000 per year so are the airlines paying them that much or more ? I also heard that a stack of junior staff are bailing as well due to ongoing HR harrassment and have launched civil proceedings against CASA.
Seems that there are major issues at the regulator losing all that safety system capacity, a worrying trend and a sign of internal management and HR issues. My concern is with the loss of so many safety sensitive inspectors that safety standards will tumble. The airlines do not want the old inspectors from engineering or flying operations but are pinching the relatively new saftey (past 5 years) inspectors suddenly ? I also hear that senior management have lost the plot and are destroying projects and blowing millions in the process and mismanaging entire departments to the point that staff are leaving or suing. This is not a good look at all and it seems that Albanese is failing the travelling public.
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If Joyce is called back to the Senate enquiry, maybe he could expand on his "People Agenda".
When asked by Andrew Dyer, a senior partner and managing director of The Boston Consulting Group about how he managed the balance between long term perspectives & shorter term urgencies of reduced demand & rising oil prices.
Embedded in AJ's response:
"........as President Barack Obama’s chief of staff said, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” It gives you an opportunity to make significant changes in the business. The crisis was a great opportunity for us to accelerate our people agenda, our change agenda, and several important strategic issues."
The full interview is available at:
Future of Leadership - Alan Joyce
When asked by Andrew Dyer, a senior partner and managing director of The Boston Consulting Group about how he managed the balance between long term perspectives & shorter term urgencies of reduced demand & rising oil prices.
Embedded in AJ's response:
"........as President Barack Obama’s chief of staff said, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” It gives you an opportunity to make significant changes in the business. The crisis was a great opportunity for us to accelerate our people agenda, our change agenda, and several important strategic issues."
The full interview is available at:
Future of Leadership - Alan Joyce
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Anyone a subscriber to Crikey.com to get the full story??
Pilot training, air safety inquiry to recall industry heavyweights
by Ben Sandilands
After the shocks that emerged in a Senate committee hearing last Friday concerning pilot training and airline safety in Australia, the inquiry has been extended to May 4.
It is understood the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, will recall the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, the Jetstar Group CEO, Bruce Buchanan, the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport […]
by Ben Sandilands
After the shocks that emerged in a Senate committee hearing last Friday concerning pilot training and airline safety in Australia, the inquiry has been extended to May 4.
It is understood the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, will recall the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, the Jetstar Group CEO, Bruce Buchanan, the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport […]
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Here 'tis
Pilot training, air safety inquiry to recall industry heavyweights
Ben Sandilands, aviation reporter and Plane Talking blogger, writes:
AVIATION, AVIATION SAFETY, BILL HEFFERNAN, SENATE INQUIRY
After the shocks that emerged in a Senate committee hearing last Friday concerning pilot training and airline safety in Australia, the inquiry has been extended to May 4.
It is understood the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, will recall the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, the Jetstar Group CEO, Bruce Buchanan, the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, Martin Dolan and the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, John McCormick, and seek the attendance of Virgin Blue CEO, John Borghetti, who did not attend last week’s hearings at which his airline offended some of the committee with the dismissive brevity of its written submission.
It is further understood that some of the those the inquiry wishes to question further are keen to be recalled, after a hearing that was crammed with fresh information and gave rise to dozens of additional questions on notice including to representatives of a range of private pilot training organisations.
During that hearing Senator Heffernan raised an incident involving a near wheels-up landing by an Australian registered A330. Heffernan’s disclosure caused confusion at the witness table for the Qantas entourage in which Joyce said there was no incident, and Buchanan said he thought it was a Jetstar A330 at Singapore Airport. (Which it was, and which is being investigated by CASA.)
There was similar disarray when Senator Nick Xenophon, who had instigated the inquiry, ambushed Joyce over the existence of a letter from CASA demanding an explanation of a series of 15 "stick-shaker" incidents involving Qantaslink Dash 8 turbo props in which the airliners, which operate many of the flights politicians use to complete their trips to Canberra, were put in imminent danger of stalling.
Only one of those incidents had been previously disclosed to the travelling public through a report in Crikey blog Plane Talking, and that involved a first officer disobeying the instructions of a captain to abandon an unstable approach to Sydney Airport and go around.
Instead, the junior pilot persisted with the dangerous approach, causing two "stick-shaker" warnings within 10 seconds while it was dropping towards the airport from the direction of Botany Bay.
This incident was of major safety concern yet air-brushed in the ATSB report into a short document that escaped general media attention, after being released too late in the day to make any of the papers.
The senators are also understood to have unfinished business in relation to their reference to examine the near crash of Jetstar A320 during a missed approach to Melbourne’s main airport on July 21, 2007.
Critiques of the differences between the Qantas/Jetstar submission to the Senate inquiry over this incident and the testimony of the ATSB and CASA, have been published by Plane Talking.
Ben Sandilands, aviation reporter and Plane Talking blogger, writes:
AVIATION, AVIATION SAFETY, BILL HEFFERNAN, SENATE INQUIRY
After the shocks that emerged in a Senate committee hearing last Friday concerning pilot training and airline safety in Australia, the inquiry has been extended to May 4.
It is understood the inquiry, chaired by Senator Bill Heffernan, will recall the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, the Jetstar Group CEO, Bruce Buchanan, the chief commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, Martin Dolan and the CEO of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, John McCormick, and seek the attendance of Virgin Blue CEO, John Borghetti, who did not attend last week’s hearings at which his airline offended some of the committee with the dismissive brevity of its written submission.
It is further understood that some of the those the inquiry wishes to question further are keen to be recalled, after a hearing that was crammed with fresh information and gave rise to dozens of additional questions on notice including to representatives of a range of private pilot training organisations.
During that hearing Senator Heffernan raised an incident involving a near wheels-up landing by an Australian registered A330. Heffernan’s disclosure caused confusion at the witness table for the Qantas entourage in which Joyce said there was no incident, and Buchanan said he thought it was a Jetstar A330 at Singapore Airport. (Which it was, and which is being investigated by CASA.)
There was similar disarray when Senator Nick Xenophon, who had instigated the inquiry, ambushed Joyce over the existence of a letter from CASA demanding an explanation of a series of 15 "stick-shaker" incidents involving Qantaslink Dash 8 turbo props in which the airliners, which operate many of the flights politicians use to complete their trips to Canberra, were put in imminent danger of stalling.
Only one of those incidents had been previously disclosed to the travelling public through a report in Crikey blog Plane Talking, and that involved a first officer disobeying the instructions of a captain to abandon an unstable approach to Sydney Airport and go around.
Instead, the junior pilot persisted with the dangerous approach, causing two "stick-shaker" warnings within 10 seconds while it was dropping towards the airport from the direction of Botany Bay.
This incident was of major safety concern yet air-brushed in the ATSB report into a short document that escaped general media attention, after being released too late in the day to make any of the papers.
The senators are also understood to have unfinished business in relation to their reference to examine the near crash of Jetstar A320 during a missed approach to Melbourne’s main airport on July 21, 2007.
Critiques of the differences between the Qantas/Jetstar submission to the Senate inquiry over this incident and the testimony of the ATSB and CASA, have been published by Plane Talking.
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The Captain of the Dash 8 called for a Go-Around and the F/O disobeyed his orders.
Where is the problem? Except for the F/O disregarding the explicit instructions of the Captain of the flight. This clown should be hung out to dry! I am an F/O, and for all you clowns out there who just don`t get it, IT is not a Democracy on the flight deck!
But lets try and link this into Terms and conditions and the Jet* Cadetships and how the world is about to end.
Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees!
When you guys can see the bigger picture, we might actually be able to have a serious debate and get things moving in the right direction.
The guy from Swinborne might actaully be right and we all need to do a Multi-crew training course.
Where is the problem? Except for the F/O disregarding the explicit instructions of the Captain of the flight. This clown should be hung out to dry! I am an F/O, and for all you clowns out there who just don`t get it, IT is not a Democracy on the flight deck!
But lets try and link this into Terms and conditions and the Jet* Cadetships and how the world is about to end.
Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees!
When you guys can see the bigger picture, we might actually be able to have a serious debate and get things moving in the right direction.
The guy from Swinborne might actaully be right and we all need to do a Multi-crew training course.
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Metro Smoker
If you think that a 3 week multi crew course is the answer then you are sadly mistaken in my opinion. I am not saying that I do not think that this course is a positive step, but I do not think that it is the answer.
This recommendation was made by Anthony Petteford from Oxford Aviation, a man who sells aviation training courses for a living. The QLink Traineeship is approx $20kAUD for what is essentially a multi crew course combined with a Jet Orientation Course carried out in the fixed base piston simulators at Moorabbin.
Would it surprise you to know that this course carried out in either a CRJ Sim or a full motion 737 Frasca Sim in Oxford UK costs 4,490GBP (based on their 2011 price list) which equates to $7,205AUD? A difference of almost $13,000AUD
In Oxford Aviation Academy, Kidlington U.K. the course is taught by qualified, experienced (some retired) airline pilots but in Moorabbin the sims are conducted by relatively speaking inexperienced instructors compared to the UK whom I understand have been applying for the Qlink Traineeship themselves!!
Oxford are ripping everyone off, not just in monetary terms but probably also in the product they are providing!!!
As for the 'money back guarantee' he was peddling to the Senators last week - One has to wonder how this 'insurance' is funded? Well let me tell you - hardly anyone qualifies for a refund under the skills guarantee because it is so heavily conditioned and it is designed that way. If anyone sees this as an advantage ask for the terms and Conditions - you will soon see it is a scam. As to how it is funded; the answer is by all your classmates through charging well above the market rates for the 'course' in the first place and the $300 'assessment fee' that was charged to the other who knows how many thousand wannabees.
As for Swinburne, it seems that after potential cadets pay a massive price for the cadetship they go any make claims for Comonwealth funding etc. on your behalf without you knowing and pocket it - extra profit for them.
The only reason that Oxford need Swinburne is access to FEE HELP which Oxford cannot get in their own right.
So, after a cadet claiming their lifetime FEE HELP limit and it being paid to Oxford for flight training the cadet then leaves the country and works for Jetstar New Zealand away for the prying eyes of the Australian ATO and therefore potentially never to be seen again, apart from the fact they live and fly in an around Australia every day! Tax is paid to the NZ Government so cadet is not earning as far as the Australian ATO is concerned. Congratuations Australian Government you have just funded the training of a pilot for them to work and contribute to the economy of another country!!! Jetstar know this!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
If you think that a 3 week multi crew course is the answer then you are sadly mistaken in my opinion. I am not saying that I do not think that this course is a positive step, but I do not think that it is the answer.
This recommendation was made by Anthony Petteford from Oxford Aviation, a man who sells aviation training courses for a living. The QLink Traineeship is approx $20kAUD for what is essentially a multi crew course combined with a Jet Orientation Course carried out in the fixed base piston simulators at Moorabbin.
Would it surprise you to know that this course carried out in either a CRJ Sim or a full motion 737 Frasca Sim in Oxford UK costs 4,490GBP (based on their 2011 price list) which equates to $7,205AUD? A difference of almost $13,000AUD
In Oxford Aviation Academy, Kidlington U.K. the course is taught by qualified, experienced (some retired) airline pilots but in Moorabbin the sims are conducted by relatively speaking inexperienced instructors compared to the UK whom I understand have been applying for the Qlink Traineeship themselves!!
Oxford are ripping everyone off, not just in monetary terms but probably also in the product they are providing!!!
As for the 'money back guarantee' he was peddling to the Senators last week - One has to wonder how this 'insurance' is funded? Well let me tell you - hardly anyone qualifies for a refund under the skills guarantee because it is so heavily conditioned and it is designed that way. If anyone sees this as an advantage ask for the terms and Conditions - you will soon see it is a scam. As to how it is funded; the answer is by all your classmates through charging well above the market rates for the 'course' in the first place and the $300 'assessment fee' that was charged to the other who knows how many thousand wannabees.
As for Swinburne, it seems that after potential cadets pay a massive price for the cadetship they go any make claims for Comonwealth funding etc. on your behalf without you knowing and pocket it - extra profit for them.
The only reason that Oxford need Swinburne is access to FEE HELP which Oxford cannot get in their own right.
So, after a cadet claiming their lifetime FEE HELP limit and it being paid to Oxford for flight training the cadet then leaves the country and works for Jetstar New Zealand away for the prying eyes of the Australian ATO and therefore potentially never to be seen again, apart from the fact they live and fly in an around Australia every day! Tax is paid to the NZ Government so cadet is not earning as far as the Australian ATO is concerned. Congratuations Australian Government you have just funded the training of a pilot for them to work and contribute to the economy of another country!!! Jetstar know this!!
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Last edited by The Kelpie; 3rd Mar 2011 at 06:21.
Man! I've said it before, this thing has more legs than a centipede.
I get the impression that Heffernan and Co may have gone away after last Monday's proceedings and possibly thought ..."these blokes (Joyce & Buchanan) are having a lend of us!.." It'll be interesting to see who takes the fall for all the dishonesty.
My money's on the Qantas head of safety.
I get the impression that Heffernan and Co may have gone away after last Monday's proceedings and possibly thought ..."these blokes (Joyce & Buchanan) are having a lend of us!.." It'll be interesting to see who takes the fall for all the dishonesty.
My money's on the Qantas head of safety.
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[x] Airline - Cheap Indentured labour with zero outlay
[x] Training provider - extortionate profit.
[x] University - fee paying students, profit.
[ ] Pilot - Career paying above minimum wage.
[ ] Taxpayer - Return of loan.
Yep Kelpie, that's one slick business model.
[x] Training provider - extortionate profit.
[x] University - fee paying students, profit.
[ ] Pilot - Career paying above minimum wage.
[ ] Taxpayer - Return of loan.
Yep Kelpie, that's one slick business model.
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Burrito
You have forgotten that jetstar only pay Oxford 45k of the 87k the cadets have to repay so it's a 'nice little earner' for jetstar too on top of providing them with cheap indentured labour.
Three companys turning a profit. Someone has to pay!!
You have forgotten that jetstar only pay Oxford 45k of the 87k the cadets have to repay so it's a 'nice little earner' for jetstar too on top of providing them with cheap indentured labour.
Three companys turning a profit. Someone has to pay!!
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Is MR, the CP of Jetstar a 'fit and proper person' to hold this office. Strikes me as someone who has not got the spine to stand up to AJ and BB. Same goes for The safety guy!!