Qantas sick of the 380
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Qantas sick of the 380
Rumour has it that the illustrius leader of the Jetstar group (ie AJ) was front and centre for yet another 380 turnback out of London a few weeks ago. It has been suggested that enough is enough and the teething problems are just becoming too great. As such, 380 order is being stopped after 12 aircraft with the 744s to be replaced with a new order of 748s.
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As such, 380 order is being stopped after 12 aircraft with the 744s to be replaced with a new order of 748s.
It's the only reason why carriers consider Airbus products seriously, they factor in the increased revenue from penalty payments which accompany most products.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Boeing offer the 777 or even the 747 in plastic? I reckon it would cripple Airbus
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Boeing offer the 777 or even the 747 in plastic? I reckon it would cripple Airbus
This rumour has been around for weeks. The facts are that pax acceptance of the 380 is at an all time high. Sin Air are going to 2 a day Syd/Lon and 1 a day Mlb/Lon with the 380 and i suspect similar frequency for Emirates and in my opinion if QF dont match this straight away with their own 380s they would be decimated in the premium market to London. Although the 747-800 with a similar interior to the 380 would have the same pax appeal i doubt QF would see them for a minumum of 2/3 years. My conclusion, the 20 380s are coming and probably more after that.
Goblin i think the qf group are getting these payments for the plastic 787 already.
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It wasn't long ago, the Boeing marketing boys were joking about the delays with the A380 program, all well documented. Looking back on it, I think Airbus did get through all the problems and have come up with a pretty good product. By all accounts the A380 appears well accepted by the end users.
As for Boeing, I can't help thinking moving the head office from Seattle (its traditional manufacturing base) to Chicago at a time when the 748F & 787 projects were past the "go ahead stage" in development.. certainly did not help the cause at all, leading to a possible fragmented corporate communication breakdown.
Since the move, it appears the management of "outsourcing manufacturing components" went badly wrong.
Global Corporate Citizenship
Interesting name pops up here, Boeing: Anna (Anne) Eleanor Roosevelt Biography
really got me wondering...... two words came to mind.. aviation & outsourcing...
As for Boeing, I can't help thinking moving the head office from Seattle (its traditional manufacturing base) to Chicago at a time when the 748F & 787 projects were past the "go ahead stage" in development.. certainly did not help the cause at all, leading to a possible fragmented corporate communication breakdown.
Since the move, it appears the management of "outsourcing manufacturing components" went badly wrong.
Global Corporate Citizenship
Interesting name pops up here, Boeing: Anna (Anne) Eleanor Roosevelt Biography
really got me wondering...... two words came to mind.. aviation & outsourcing...
Last edited by TIMA9X; 4th Oct 2010 at 12:27.
Originally Posted by The Green Goblin
Wouldn't it be wonderful if Boeing offer the 777 or even the 747 in plastic? I reckon it would cripple Airbus
Last year Boeing took a US$1 billion charge for the delay on the 747-8 alone, with the additional delay just announced, that additional charges will be extended for the next 2 years of reporting. The latest delay in the 787 until Q1/Q2 2011 is also going to have significant financial impact.
Originally Posted by donpizmeov
Goblin i think the qf group are getting these payments for the plastic 787 already.
Its notable that all QF techies that have come from 747 land just cannot get enough of the aircraft and I'll be the first to say how much I love the 747.
They wouldn't be the ones who have struggled (under statement) through the course would they Mr Deux. I heard a certain ex fleet manager embarrassed himself badly after failing endorsement check ranting and raving.
Not too say that the 380 is the be all and end all. Somewhere between the bus and the boeing would be perfect. Yet it does the job, not always well but better than most.
Not too say that the 380 is the be all and end all. Somewhere between the bus and the boeing would be perfect. Yet it does the job, not always well but better than most.
The aircraft (or perhaps Airbus) seems to have a group of fanbois who are uncritical of anything, and cannot see any faults. And if you do, then you're simply a Boeing holdout. The Boeings are anything but perfect.
My theory is that they (Airbus) worked a 7 day week, but went to the pub on Friday at lunchtime, so everything done after that is rubbish. The software and manuals were written over the weekend, by people who didn't want to be there, so that explains their failings.
So, much of it is good, but there is a lot that isn't. Perhaps I expected too much, but, for instance, it really shouldn't have been too much to expect that FMC fix circles would actually be circles, and might not be in error by up to 30%.
My theory is that they (Airbus) worked a 7 day week, but went to the pub on Friday at lunchtime, so everything done after that is rubbish. The software and manuals were written over the weekend, by people who didn't want to be there, so that explains their failings.
So, much of it is good, but there is a lot that isn't. Perhaps I expected too much, but, for instance, it really shouldn't have been too much to expect that FMC fix circles would actually be circles, and might not be in error by up to 30%.
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A mate of mine's summary is "A great idea poorly executed!"
The aircraft is a delight but the manuals are a disgrace. Elsewhere, it's alleged they're being completely re-written.
G'day
The aircraft is a delight but the manuals are a disgrace. Elsewhere, it's alleged they're being completely re-written.
G'day
The only rumour I have heard is that the announced reconfig of the A380 from No.13 onwards (I think?) to have no first class is being reconsidered.
Word is Airbus will not alter the config without huge penalty payments.
Word is Airbus will not alter the config without huge penalty payments.
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FMC fix circles would actually be circles, and might not be in error by up to 30%.
Rings home true though, that old saying... "it's the airline tech crews who develop/refine the new product" after it's delivered.
Some things never change, no matter who gets the development outsourcing contract back at the concept stage..
Well, as someone working for the mob who has ordered 90 of the things, I can assure you that on the right route the A380 is a profitable aircraft-
BUT.....
ONLY if you can fill it with a decent yield, as it's operating costs do not stack up against a large twin-
and ONLY
Because we are getting them VERY cheap- word is we pay around 2/3rds as much for an A380 as we do for a 777- all thanks to the Eurozone taxpayer.
Charlie Fly Away,
Lets have a look at some of your:-
First point-
Both Emirates and Singapore have been publically critical of the Aircrafts dispatch reliability.
It has MUCH lower fuel efficiency on a per pax basis than the 777. It cruises M.02 faster, which equates to a few minutes on a typical sector. And "Half the Noise"? Sorry, half the noise of what? You represent yourself as making "Factual" statements, then make an unsupportable, open ended statement like that one.
Yes it is quieter than a 747-400 designed in the mid 80s- how about comparing it to a contemporary aircraft!
NO-IT-DOESN'T, NOT-EVEN-CLOSE!!
EXCEPT delivery date, dispatch reliability and it's initial fuel predictions (It was billed as a 10T/hr aircraft, it aint!!)
Yep- 33 aircraft in 3 years, on a project that is 2 1/2 years late- Boeing produced 100 747s in its FIRST YEAR of construction.
And lastly:-
Yes, factual, but the inference is that this is somehow a good thing. Almost half those orders are from 1 customer, and without its recent top up, orders laguished at 200 odd for almost three years. Apart from Emirates, the Aircraft has had virtually no new orders since it's first flight.
Break-even was originally quoted at 260, before the delays and compensation payments- now it's not even talked about.
On the backs of European taxpayers, we have a pretty good people mover (though you then have to send a 777 in to pick up the frieght!!) that will be profitable on some routes for some operators. If it doesn't pick up any more customers, there will be around 1/4 as many A380s flying as 747s, with the 747-8- a derivative of a 40 year old design- already having 2/3rds as many sales.
The A380 is not a bad aircraft.
it is NOT some kind of revolution!!
BUT.....
ONLY if you can fill it with a decent yield, as it's operating costs do not stack up against a large twin-
and ONLY
Because we are getting them VERY cheap- word is we pay around 2/3rds as much for an A380 as we do for a 777- all thanks to the Eurozone taxpayer.
Charlie Fly Away,
Lets have a look at some of your:-
comprehensive and factual piece about a terrific aircraft.
All A380 operators have publicly reported a very smooth service entry
The A380 has outstanding fuel efficiency, superior performance, and half the noise…
Yes it is quieter than a 747-400 designed in the mid 80s- how about comparing it to a contemporary aircraft!
With the lowest fuel burn per seat,
To conclude, Importantly, as its early operators have said, the A380 delivers, on every single commitment.
33 aircraft since October 15 2007.
And lastly:-
The A380 program has attracted 234 firm orders from 17 customers.
Break-even was originally quoted at 260, before the delays and compensation payments- now it's not even talked about.
On the backs of European taxpayers, we have a pretty good people mover (though you then have to send a 777 in to pick up the frieght!!) that will be profitable on some routes for some operators. If it doesn't pick up any more customers, there will be around 1/4 as many A380s flying as 747s, with the 747-8- a derivative of a 40 year old design- already having 2/3rds as many sales.
The A380 is not a bad aircraft.
it is NOT some kind of revolution!!
Last edited by Wizofoz; 5th Oct 2010 at 04:34.