Virgin Blue A330 Jobs
Typical VB management. Let's hire externally (including mates) instead of training up own guys/gals first 
Any mention of $$$ or just the usual, see how much interest there is and how desperate they are and offer individual contracts...............
Any mention of $$$ or just the usual, see how much interest there is and how desperate they are and offer individual contracts...............
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Perhaps the commercial desire to kick the opposition in the guts by poaching crew over-rides other issues. A half decent package would cripple the Jetstar operation
You will surely benefit in the longer term.
You will surely benefit in the longer term.
no line positions, so I don't see this bringing about a "mass exodus" from EK. Even if every position was filled from Dubai, Emirates would barely notice.
if they can introduce 21 E Jets without employing any experienced E Jet drivers, how many external hires are needed to introduce a small A330 fleet?
if they can introduce 21 E Jets without employing any experienced E Jet drivers, how many external hires are needed to introduce a small A330 fleet?
Keith do you mean not applying to VB for the A330 so that the company is encouraged to look in house for experienced crew and to offer decent $$$$ or do you mean we should open the flood gates so anyone that is keen to get home, fly a bigger aircraft (insert self fullfilling desire here thus screwing over others in the industry) apply??
Same tactics that were employed with the 777 and Jetstar want to use for employing cheap overseas labour.
Unity is about reversing the trend of crap T&C's and ensuring jobs for Australian pilots here in Australia!
Same tactics that were employed with the 777 and Jetstar want to use for employing cheap overseas labour.
Unity is about reversing the trend of crap T&C's and ensuring jobs for Australian pilots here in Australia!
What else gets me, in the same "ad" VB is actively trying to recruit EXTERNALLY, direct entry Senior Base Pilots, where experience on 737NG, EMB190/170 and A330 is "highly regarded".
What ever happened to internal positions?
What ever happened to internal positions?
Last edited by Servo; 10th Sep 2010 at 07:12.
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My understanding is that 'it is intended' that most of the positions will be filled by Virgin Blue domestic pilots. Obviously any A330 trainers/checkers that can't be sourced from VB (the group?) will have to be externally recruited.
There is no indication that the A330 terms and conditions will be under the current VB EBA. Can VB hire A330 pilots under individual contracts whilst being employed by VB (ie have B737/Emb on EBA and A330 on individual contracts?)
There is no indication that the A330 terms and conditions will be under the current VB EBA. Can VB hire A330 pilots under individual contracts whilst being employed by VB (ie have B737/Emb on EBA and A330 on individual contracts?)
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The old saying, "If it looks too good to be true, it usually is". The jobs have also been advertised internally. Remains to be seen whether anyone from internal positions is willing to give it a go. I have spoken to several who are interested, both rated and non rated.
There is no widebody provision in the current EBA. So they can pretty much pay as they like. There has been no word on possible remuneration as yet. "Caveat Emptor"
There is no widebody provision in the current EBA. So they can pretty much pay as they like. There has been no word on possible remuneration as yet. "Caveat Emptor"
Exactly PM how do you "apply" for a position when you dont know exactly what your are applying for and conditions to be in place.
Hopefully the conditions will be in line with industry standards and internal applicants are successful. I understand that not ALL positions can/will be filled internally for various reasons, I just dont want that to be used as an excuse to offer poor conditions etc.
Hopefully the conditions will be in line with industry standards and internal applicants are successful. I understand that not ALL positions can/will be filled internally for various reasons, I just dont want that to be used as an excuse to offer poor conditions etc.
Dear Colleagues
There is a lot of truth to the opportunities at VB for 330 qualified checkers or trainers. This will be a one off opportunity to leave the sandpit and come home on about half the take home pay you get in the desert.
Make no mistake about it, there will not be a second bite at this. As was the case with VA, if you do not come in the first group of DEC's, there will not be another opportunity. After the initial start up phase, it seems likely that all future 330 pilots will be sourced internally, as was the case with the 777.
What I would like to impress upon anyone considering this opportunity is, don't make the same mistake the 777 drivers did. That mistake was not talking to the VB pilots, or more specifically the AFAP (the only union at the time) before accepting their contracts. The end result of that is the appalling contract VA 777 drivers now have.
It is widely accepted amongst the pilot group and the unions that DEC's are a necessity to introduce the 330, so there should be no animosity toward any DEC's who choose to have a crack at the positions. In fact, on the contrary, current pilots at both VB and VA have vested interest in doing whatever they can to ensure incoming DEC's get paid as much as possible. Any new benchmark salaries will probably have a flow on effect to VB and VA pilots.
VA pilots are currently in EBA talks, and VB pilots will be commencing EBA talks in the coming 12 months, so the A330 conditions are of utmost relevance.
At present, the likely strategy the company will employ is to try and get 330 DEC's to accept conditions similar to the VA 777 pilots. If they can do this, they will then use that as a benchmark to attack VB pilots conditions at the next EBA, and VA pilots will be able to kiss any improved conditions good bye.
All of the ex EK 777 pilots are members of VIPA, and there are probably many familiar names amongst the AFAP members. Do yourselves and all other pilots a favour and get in touch with someone in either of the unions before you accept any offers.
I cannot overstate how crucial this will be. Anyone who accepts conditions that are less than current VB conditions will most likely be loudly and publicly condemned, and is destined to have a fairly miserable time at work.
Anyone who does the harder thing and gets in contact with current VB or VA pilots and does their bit to ensure the conditions here are not further eroded will be welcomed into the fold.
In closing, I would not expect anyone to fall on their sword and throw away the opportunity to return to Oz, just on principle. The message i am trying to convey is that there is a good bunch of blokes back here who understand that we need the experience to kick off the A330, but we want to do whatever can be done to ensure that DEC's are not used as a weapon to further erode conditions in OZ.
Welcome to VIPA
Australian Federation of Air Pilots
There is a lot of truth to the opportunities at VB for 330 qualified checkers or trainers. This will be a one off opportunity to leave the sandpit and come home on about half the take home pay you get in the desert.
Make no mistake about it, there will not be a second bite at this. As was the case with VA, if you do not come in the first group of DEC's, there will not be another opportunity. After the initial start up phase, it seems likely that all future 330 pilots will be sourced internally, as was the case with the 777.
What I would like to impress upon anyone considering this opportunity is, don't make the same mistake the 777 drivers did. That mistake was not talking to the VB pilots, or more specifically the AFAP (the only union at the time) before accepting their contracts. The end result of that is the appalling contract VA 777 drivers now have.
It is widely accepted amongst the pilot group and the unions that DEC's are a necessity to introduce the 330, so there should be no animosity toward any DEC's who choose to have a crack at the positions. In fact, on the contrary, current pilots at both VB and VA have vested interest in doing whatever they can to ensure incoming DEC's get paid as much as possible. Any new benchmark salaries will probably have a flow on effect to VB and VA pilots.
VA pilots are currently in EBA talks, and VB pilots will be commencing EBA talks in the coming 12 months, so the A330 conditions are of utmost relevance.
At present, the likely strategy the company will employ is to try and get 330 DEC's to accept conditions similar to the VA 777 pilots. If they can do this, they will then use that as a benchmark to attack VB pilots conditions at the next EBA, and VA pilots will be able to kiss any improved conditions good bye.
All of the ex EK 777 pilots are members of VIPA, and there are probably many familiar names amongst the AFAP members. Do yourselves and all other pilots a favour and get in touch with someone in either of the unions before you accept any offers.
I cannot overstate how crucial this will be. Anyone who accepts conditions that are less than current VB conditions will most likely be loudly and publicly condemned, and is destined to have a fairly miserable time at work.
Anyone who does the harder thing and gets in contact with current VB or VA pilots and does their bit to ensure the conditions here are not further eroded will be welcomed into the fold.
In closing, I would not expect anyone to fall on their sword and throw away the opportunity to return to Oz, just on principle. The message i am trying to convey is that there is a good bunch of blokes back here who understand that we need the experience to kick off the A330, but we want to do whatever can be done to ensure that DEC's are not used as a weapon to further erode conditions in OZ.
Welcome to VIPA
Australian Federation of Air Pilots
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Bad time to cheese 600 73 drivers off. Might find a few problems at EBA time.
Recommend employing internally on a commensurate seat to dollars package to avoid an absolute disaster at EBA/new brand launch time.
Don't fall into the silly Swift Godfrey act of offering the lowest conditions in the world and filling 98% of positions with externals.
Recommend employing internally on a commensurate seat to dollars package to avoid an absolute disaster at EBA/new brand launch time.
Don't fall into the silly Swift Godfrey act of offering the lowest conditions in the world and filling 98% of positions with externals.
Flight Crew - Domestic | A330 Technical Pilots - SEP10
Expertise
SKILLS, EXPERIENCE & QUALIFICATIONS
Must Have:
*
A tertiary qualification in a technical discipline
*
A330/A340 Type Rating
*
Command M/E Instrument Rating
*
The ability to "think outside the square"
*
A working knowledge of the MS Office suite of applications
*
The ability to successfully work as part of a team in a high pressure, time critical environment
*
Jet Experience in High Capacity RPT Operation
*
International RPT/Charter or Ferry Operations
*
The ability to write manuals of a policy and technical nature
*
Knowledge of and experience in the Australian regulatory environment
*
Experience with the approval of MEL/CDLs, AFMs and aircraft certification generally
Great to Have:
* Tertiary qualifications in Management disciplines
* Knowledge of Boeing systems, documentation and software
* Simulator Evaluation Qualification
* Knowledge of and experience in the New Zealand regulatory environment
* Previous flight operations management experience
* Experience with the qualification of Full Flight Simulators
Expertise
SKILLS, EXPERIENCE & QUALIFICATIONS
Must Have:
*
A tertiary qualification in a technical discipline
*
A330/A340 Type Rating
*
Command M/E Instrument Rating
*
The ability to "think outside the square"
*
A working knowledge of the MS Office suite of applications
*
The ability to successfully work as part of a team in a high pressure, time critical environment
*
Jet Experience in High Capacity RPT Operation
*
International RPT/Charter or Ferry Operations
*
The ability to write manuals of a policy and technical nature
*
Knowledge of and experience in the Australian regulatory environment
*
Experience with the approval of MEL/CDLs, AFMs and aircraft certification generally
Great to Have:
* Tertiary qualifications in Management disciplines
* Knowledge of Boeing systems, documentation and software
* Simulator Evaluation Qualification
* Knowledge of and experience in the New Zealand regulatory environment
* Previous flight operations management experience
* Experience with the qualification of Full Flight Simulators
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There are numerous ex EK A330/340 drivers (with Jetstar and Tiger) already in OZ who may look at this - but I'd be a bit concerned as to the T & C's until someone comes up with actual dollar numbers.
Originally Posted by Servo
Exactly PM how do you "apply" for a position when you dont know exactly what your are applying for and conditions to be in place.
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Typical VB management. Let's hire externally (including mates) instead of training up own guys/gals first 
This ad rings alarm bells of caution.
Unknown Terms and Conditions?
The world is standing at the precipice of a crippling pilot shortage (for qualified, experienced pilots).
The next year, two years will inevitably see many more jobs such as these.
VB alone will expand considerably - more than internal crewing can allow. JQ are getting what, 15 plus 787's etc? - so they will need to better the deal for current pilots and to employ experienced Australian-trained/licenced pilots. Tiger will really have to get its act together if it plans to survive. Overseas airlines are desperate. EK alone needs 750 pilots in 18m just for new orders, not even to replace pilots leaving for greener pastures. Then there's Ethihad, Qatar, Korean, Air China and many new freight airlines desperate for rated/non-rated guys and this is the tip of the iceberg - it has soaked-up what was a pool of qualified pilots.
Already in Oz there are better alternatives for A330 pilots (e: o/s airline basing in Australia, A$15k/m+ after tax, 16-18 days/m off).
In the initial stages of the V Australia 777 operation Captains were to get $215k (pre tax) but when flooded with applicants this dropped to I think $175k/yr - for a Boeing 777 Captain
because they could.
This ad implies exactly the same thing will happen - my advice would be proceed with real caution.
At last the worm is turning for professional pilots, there is increasingly no need to accept second best.
Unknown Terms and Conditions?
The world is standing at the precipice of a crippling pilot shortage (for qualified, experienced pilots).
The next year, two years will inevitably see many more jobs such as these.
VB alone will expand considerably - more than internal crewing can allow. JQ are getting what, 15 plus 787's etc? - so they will need to better the deal for current pilots and to employ experienced Australian-trained/licenced pilots. Tiger will really have to get its act together if it plans to survive. Overseas airlines are desperate. EK alone needs 750 pilots in 18m just for new orders, not even to replace pilots leaving for greener pastures. Then there's Ethihad, Qatar, Korean, Air China and many new freight airlines desperate for rated/non-rated guys and this is the tip of the iceberg - it has soaked-up what was a pool of qualified pilots.
Already in Oz there are better alternatives for A330 pilots (e: o/s airline basing in Australia, A$15k/m+ after tax, 16-18 days/m off).
In the initial stages of the V Australia 777 operation Captains were to get $215k (pre tax) but when flooded with applicants this dropped to I think $175k/yr - for a Boeing 777 Captain
because they could.This ad implies exactly the same thing will happen - my advice would be proceed with real caution.
At last the worm is turning for professional pilots, there is increasingly no need to accept second best.