Virgin Blue A330 Jobs
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Be very very careful guys.
Let me pose a very real possibility to you.
Let me pose a very real possibility to you.
- You leave a well paid job to come home to fly the 330 in OZ
- VB's 330's are a stop gap until 787's are available which is rumoured to be the case
- The 330's are sent back and you find your self as an F/O on the Ejet on 100k per year
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Why would any sane person leave a secure job to join an organisation which may not be around in 2 years. The only upside it will probably be on better conditions than the woeful ones that the VA crews are enduring ( self induced mind you ). Do yourself a favour and block out any nostalgic thoughts of returning home.It isn't that good and definately not worth giving up a well paying long term job.
Last edited by Grey Nomad; 11th Sep 2010 at 09:44.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Servo, I agree, but that's what the VA guys did.......Listen to the sqealing now.
VBPCGUY, You don't advertise internally via The Australian.
Grey Nomad, Where do you get 2 years from?
VBPCGUY, You don't advertise internally via The Australian.
Grey Nomad, Where do you get 2 years from?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Just my best guess really. With VA bleeding the cash reserves and with no real prospect for a change in their circumstances,the bottom line doesn't look too good.VB have the might of QF, J* and Tiger continually gnawing away at their market share. Most of the remaining money in the bank will be consumed setting up the 330's and the introduction of the new brand. A new business class including uniforms,lounges,livery will not come cheap. The death knell will come when the Labor government approves SQ to fly across the pacific.VB may very well survive,although I believe in a much smaller version with PB style pay and conditions. Don't get me wrong I think JB had little choice than proceed
on his present path, unfortunately their are far too many forces acting which are beyond his control.
on his present path, unfortunately their are far too many forces acting which are beyond his control.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Does anybody else see any strange parallels between John Borghetti with Virgin Blue and another ex senior QF manager (Gary Toomey with Ansett) who missed out on the top job about 10 years ago?
Both seem to have walked out of QF and into complete disasters at the major competing carrier.
Certainly hope Borghetti and Virgin don't go the same way as Toomey and Ansett.....
Both seem to have walked out of QF and into complete disasters at the major competing carrier.
Certainly hope Borghetti and Virgin don't go the same way as Toomey and Ansett.....
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the clouds
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The rife negativity never ceases to amaze me here. When BG was at the helm VB wasn't going to last two years because of....yada, yada, yada. Two years passed and now JB is at the helm and it's not going to last two years...
The only parallels I see are the people on here making the same negative comments over and over again and being proven wrong. JB is not Toomey and VB is not Ansett, moreover 10yrs have come and gone inbetween and there is now a different aviation environment than there once was.
But of course the armchair experts here would know better than an airline manager how to run an airline.
I wonder why then they are armchair experts and not in fact in charge of an airline? 
The only parallels I see are the people on here making the same negative comments over and over again and being proven wrong. JB is not Toomey and VB is not Ansett, moreover 10yrs have come and gone inbetween and there is now a different aviation environment than there once was.
But of course the armchair experts here would know better than an airline manager how to run an airline.
I wonder why then they are armchair experts and not in fact in charge of an airline?
Did any of you ever expect anything better from the sort of company that has the culture to expect interview candidates continue their interview/sim and be at the top of their game while their wife has just gone into early labour?
Serious ameteurism, especially the "so called" ML Training Captain.
At least your HR had the balls to apologise for his actions, well after the incident in May....
Serious ameteurism, especially the "so called" ML Training Captain.
At least your HR had the balls to apologise for his actions, well after the incident in May....
Join Date: May 2008
Location: australia
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Ops Norm, sorry to hear that sort of thing happened. I don't always agree with the way things are run but I have always found them accommodating when it comes to personal issues / sick family etc. Back to the thread.... Outsiders, I would consult the V.B. unions prior to accepting anything. It would be a sad day to see the terms and conditions go the way of the 777 where triple 7 skippers are on less than the 73. Even if you are financially secure think of the industry as a whole and your future colleagues. By all means accept a job if it is offered but allow a decent pay scale to be negotiated first.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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"The world is standing at the precipice of a crippling pilot shortage (for qualified, experienced pilots)".
And so it has been for more than thirty years. I started flying back in the 70's, and that was the pitch being used then. I'm surprised that supposedly intelligent people are still falling for the line in 2010!!
I clearly remember when people like the long departed Kaptin M, were advocating boycotting of Jetstar to get the salaries increased. Is that ******** living in a fantasy world? Is any pilot living in a fantasy world?? The sooner you get it through your apparently thick skulls that management would prefer to park aircraft than to pay pilots more, the sooner you will be living in the current industrial world.
Trying to put the frighteners into EK (and other companies') pilots so that they won't come here and take 'our' jobs is worse than sticking your heads in the sand; it's sticking your heads up your butts.
Airline managements have no qualms about trying to reduce pilots' incomes below that of base grade clerks. Get that, and don't forget it. If you want to continue flying, you either accept it or be continually discontented. You can try to change it, but more often than not you'll be disappointed and frustrated.
There is no shortage of wannabe pilots. The airlines just promote whoever they have available and so far they've got away with it. When they no longer get away with it, then, and only then, will they adopt a different strategy.
I wish you luck in your endeavours
And so it has been for more than thirty years. I started flying back in the 70's, and that was the pitch being used then. I'm surprised that supposedly intelligent people are still falling for the line in 2010!!
I clearly remember when people like the long departed Kaptin M, were advocating boycotting of Jetstar to get the salaries increased. Is that ******** living in a fantasy world? Is any pilot living in a fantasy world?? The sooner you get it through your apparently thick skulls that management would prefer to park aircraft than to pay pilots more, the sooner you will be living in the current industrial world.
Trying to put the frighteners into EK (and other companies') pilots so that they won't come here and take 'our' jobs is worse than sticking your heads in the sand; it's sticking your heads up your butts.
Airline managements have no qualms about trying to reduce pilots' incomes below that of base grade clerks. Get that, and don't forget it. If you want to continue flying, you either accept it or be continually discontented. You can try to change it, but more often than not you'll be disappointed and frustrated.
There is no shortage of wannabe pilots. The airlines just promote whoever they have available and so far they've got away with it. When they no longer get away with it, then, and only then, will they adopt a different strategy.
I wish you luck in your endeavours
Ops normal,
One of the failings of flight ops management is their lack of psychic ability.
If you don't tell the right people then they can't do anything about it, I do not believe that any of the vb managers, had they known the circumstances, would expect anyone to continue with the interview/sim.
One of the failings of flight ops management is their lack of psychic ability.
If you don't tell the right people then they can't do anything about it, I do not believe that any of the vb managers, had they known the circumstances, would expect anyone to continue with the interview/sim.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Airbornesoon..I agree with you regards the continual negativity expressed on this website and can't comment on the future of VB..BUT...I think the regard with which airline management are held in Australia is misplaced.
We as a group have chosen to pursue a career in aviation and I assume most of the posters here are employed by an airline, we have reached the top job in our chosen career. JB and BG and Darth chose management as their career, they have reached the top, but it doesn't make them right.The lack of 777 in QF colours stands out from my side, also the failed APA bid for QF.
BG did agreat job setting up his thing, but maybe he lost sight of the LCC model?? I don't know or wish to commebt, but to dismiss posters on this site because they are not airline managers is to devalue their opinions and input. Just as being a pilot is not rocket science, as with airline managing. Once again from a QF/JQ point of view, all you need to be able to do is cut costs, and seemingly pay no attention to increasing revenue.
Time for a revolution where nerds who hang out in offices as accountants and lawyers and run airlines were replaced with people that actually know what an airline is.I can still remembre when QF was run by a pilot!!
Godfrey Borghetti Joyce et al...they are not all knowing gods and I wish the public and press would wake up to the modern day scam that is management.
We as a group have chosen to pursue a career in aviation and I assume most of the posters here are employed by an airline, we have reached the top job in our chosen career. JB and BG and Darth chose management as their career, they have reached the top, but it doesn't make them right.The lack of 777 in QF colours stands out from my side, also the failed APA bid for QF.
BG did agreat job setting up his thing, but maybe he lost sight of the LCC model?? I don't know or wish to commebt, but to dismiss posters on this site because they are not airline managers is to devalue their opinions and input. Just as being a pilot is not rocket science, as with airline managing. Once again from a QF/JQ point of view, all you need to be able to do is cut costs, and seemingly pay no attention to increasing revenue.
Time for a revolution where nerds who hang out in offices as accountants and lawyers and run airlines were replaced with people that actually know what an airline is.I can still remembre when QF was run by a pilot!!
Godfrey Borghetti Joyce et al...they are not all knowing gods and I wish the public and press would wake up to the modern day scam that is management.
Join Date: May 2007
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I know I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember reading that the reason VB got away with paying the E-170/190 drivers less than the B737 drivers in the current EBA, was because they agreed to paying more for a larger type.
If so, does that mean that there is already provision for more pay for the A330? Unless that was specifically for the B777 & by using another type (A330) they get around that provision, just as they got around it with the B777 by forming a new company.
If so, does that mean that there is already provision for more pay for the A330? Unless that was specifically for the B777 & by using another type (A330) they get around that provision, just as they got around it with the B777 by forming a new company.
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Current EBA only has B737 and Embraer, adding another type will require a change.
There no need to hire any external pilots full time at all. Look at the Ejet, all done in house with the help of Embraer pilots and done on time with no safety issues. Look at QF when they introduced the A330, done in house with the help of Airbus, some goes for the A380. There are heaps of internal pilots who could fill any of the advertised positions. If DJ approached Airbus, I'm sure they would provide pilots (at a cost) for the start up period.
Have a look at Rishworth, PARC etc they are always adverting for trainers and checkies on short term contracts (ie 3 months) to help airlines around the world when they introduce a new type. If DJ can't get help from Airbus then they should look at using one of these contract companies, that way, once the start phase is over the jobs go to current DJ pilots.
This issue of employing direct entry positions may have been avoided if the pilot group stuck together 10 months ago when the company employed the 2 DEC onto the Ejet. Every single FO, both Ejet and 737 should have lodged a Grievance against the company, however in the end only about 40 did and then after one or two phone calls from managment, most withdrew and only 6 pilots were willing to stick with it and take the company to court (case still pending).
So here we are 10 months done the track and the company is pushing the issue again and they know that the pilot group is not strong enough to put up a fight
There no need to hire any external pilots full time at all. Look at the Ejet, all done in house with the help of Embraer pilots and done on time with no safety issues. Look at QF when they introduced the A330, done in house with the help of Airbus, some goes for the A380. There are heaps of internal pilots who could fill any of the advertised positions. If DJ approached Airbus, I'm sure they would provide pilots (at a cost) for the start up period.
Have a look at Rishworth, PARC etc they are always adverting for trainers and checkies on short term contracts (ie 3 months) to help airlines around the world when they introduce a new type. If DJ can't get help from Airbus then they should look at using one of these contract companies, that way, once the start phase is over the jobs go to current DJ pilots.
This issue of employing direct entry positions may have been avoided if the pilot group stuck together 10 months ago when the company employed the 2 DEC onto the Ejet. Every single FO, both Ejet and 737 should have lodged a Grievance against the company, however in the end only about 40 did and then after one or two phone calls from managment, most withdrew and only 6 pilots were willing to stick with it and take the company to court (case still pending).
So here we are 10 months done the track and the company is pushing the issue again and they know that the pilot group is not strong enough to put up a fight
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Kerry Packer had a favourite expression. It was:
He who has the gold makes the rules.
That's something we, as employees, should never forget. I'm not suggesting that the boss is always, or even often, right, but he's the one who has risked capital to build a business.
When the pilots' association has sufficient funds to buy a couple of aircraft and offer jobs at great pay rates, then you have an alternative. Until then you can do whatever you want to improve conditions, but frequently you will be disillusioned.
You cannot rely on pilots from other companies, overseas, or the moon, to boycott in an attempt to improve conditions.
I'm sorry that I,nearing retirement, have to be the one to give a reality check. I've been through the mill, and know that this is the new order in industrial relations.......... unfortunately.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
That's something we, as employees, should never forget. I'm not suggesting that the boss is always, or even often, right, but he's the one who has risked capital to build a business.
When the pilots' association has sufficient funds to buy a couple of aircraft and offer jobs at great pay rates, then you have an alternative. Until then you can do whatever you want to improve conditions, but frequently you will be disillusioned.
You cannot rely on pilots from other companies, overseas, or the moon, to boycott in an attempt to improve conditions.
I'm sorry that I,nearing retirement, have to be the one to give a reality check. I've been through the mill, and know that this is the new order in industrial relations.......... unfortunately.