Pilots of Australia - time to unite - Meeting Aug 23

[breakfastburrito]

Oxidant, my bad...

[shnee]

This I what the SIN T&C look like.

Hourly rate of pay = SGD$200 for Captains (60% for First Officers)
␣ Payment based on scheduled block hours for sectors flown
␣␣ Guaranteed minimum 150 block hours per quarter = Guaranteed annual base salary of SGD$120,000 for Captains (SGD$72,000 for First Officers)
• Bonus ␣␣ A 10% International Posting payment is available on gross earnings (excluding layover allowances
and bonus payments). This will be paid at the completion of each year of service
␣ Bonus will be payable to current JQ pilots relocating to Singapore from their existing role as a response to this EOI
• Annual Leave ␣ 5 weeks per annum (1 week = 7 calendar days including 2 days off) ␣␣ Annual leave = SGD $3,500 per week (SGD $2,100 for First Officers)
• Sick Leave ␣ < 14 days for non-hospitalisation ␣␣ < 60 days if hospitalisation ␣ Sick Leave pay built into base hourly rate
• Staff Travel ␣ Yes – same as for Jetstar Asia Pilots
A330 EOI – SIN 23.7.2010 0
A330 EOI – Proposed Terms & Conditions
• Loss of Licence Insurance
␣ Free of Charge USD$100K for Captains and USD$50K for First Officers (can be topped up at own cost)
␣ Captains currently in JQ relocating to SIN can claim up to SGD$2000 per annum where they opt to source their own insurance (SGD$1200 for First Officers)
▪ Death and Permanent Disability Cover ␣ Free of Charge benefit of 24 months pay @ base salary
• Relocation assistance ␣ Includes flights to Singapore for employee and travel companion plus excess baggage ␣ One (1) return flight to Australia from Singapore per annum for employee and travel companion
• In-Flight Crew Meals Provided ␣ Yes
• Days Off ␣ 8 days off in 28 days or the equivalent averaged over 12 calendar months
• Superannuation ␣ Provision has been included in the base rate and it will be up to each pilot to make their own
arrangements • Layover Allowance
␣ The Company will pay the greater of a set amount per night (determined on a port by port basis) or $5.00 per duty hour for all duty hours either side of an overnight.
A330 EOI – SIN 23.7.2010 1
A330 EOI – Proposed Terms & Conditions Anticipated Earnings Table ($SGD)
Annualised Block Hours 600 650 700 750 800 850 900 950
Captains($SGD) 151,250 162,250 173,250 184,250 195,250 206,250 217,250 228,250
First Officers ($SGD) 90,750 97,350 103,950 110,550 117,150 123,750 130,350
Includes ▪ Hourly Rate @ SGD$200 (SGD$120 for First Officers) ▪ 10% Bonus (based on Gross annual earnings excluding layover allowances and bonuses) ▪ 5 weeks annual leave @ SGD$3500 per week (SGD$2100 for First Officers)

[Oxidant]

Oxidant, my bad...

No problem!

[patienceboy]

So based on the above figures, and after subtracting 9% for super, a new FO (no bonus) would be on the equivalent of:

• $61 000 AUD including leave pay for 600 hrs/year (average 55 hrs/month)
• $88 000 AUD including leave pay for 900 hrs/year (average 83 hrs/month)

Is this for the A330??

[rmcdonal]

$61 000 AUD including leave pay for 600 hrs/year (average 55 hrs/month)

Haha that's what I make on a Dash8 on the same number of hours.

[jibba_jabba]

Hourly rate of pay = SGD$200 for Captains (60% for First Officers)
␣ Payment based on scheduled block hours for sectors flown
␣␣ Guaranteed minimum 150 block hours per quarter = Guaranteed annual base salary of SGD$120,000 for Captains (SGD$72,000 for First Officers)
• Bonus ␣␣ A 10% International Posting payment is available on gross earnings (excluding layover allowances
and bonus payments). This will be paid at the completion of each year of service
␣ Bonus will be payable to current JQ pilots relocating to Singapore from their existing role as a response to this EOI
• Annual Leave ␣ 5 weeks per annum (1 week = 7 calendar days including 2 days off) ␣␣ Annual leave = SGD $3,500 per week (SGD $2,100 for First Officers)
• Sick Leave ␣ < 14 days for non-hospitalisation ␣␣ < 60 days if hospitalisation ␣ Sick Leave pay built into base hourly rate
• Staff Travel ␣ Yes – same as for Jetstar Asia Pilots
A330 EOI – SIN 23.7.2010 0
A330 EOI – Proposed Terms & Conditions
• Loss of Licence Insurance
␣ Free of Charge USD$100K for Captains and USD$50K for First Officers (can be topped up at own cost)
␣ Captains currently in JQ relocating to SIN can claim up to SGD$2000 per annum where they opt to source their own insurance (SGD$1200 for First Officers)
▪ Death and Permanent Disability Cover ␣ Free of Charge benefit of 24 months pay @ base salary
• Relocation assistance ␣ Includes flights to Singapore for employee and travel companion plus excess baggage ␣ One (1) return flight to Australia from Singapore per annum for employee and travel companion
• In-Flight Crew Meals Provided ␣ Yes
• Days Off ␣ 8 days off in 28 days or the equivalent averaged over 12 calendar months
• Superannuation ␣ Provision has been included in the base rate and it will be up to each pilot to make their own
arrangements • Layover Allowance
␣ The Company will pay the greater of a set amount per night (determined on a port by port basis) or $5.00 per duty hour for all duty hours either side of an overnight.
A330 EOI – SIN 23.7.2010 1
A330 EOI – Proposed Terms & Conditions Anticipated Earnings Table ($SGD)
Annualised Block Hours 600 650 700 750 800 850 900 950
Captains($SGD) 151,250 162,250 173,250 184,250 195,250 206,250 217,250 228,250
First Officers ($SGD) 90,750 97,350 103,950 110,550 117,150 123,750 130,350
Includes ▪ Hourly Rate @ SGD$200 (SGD$120 for First Officers) ▪ 10% Bonus (based on Gross annual earnings excluding layover allowances and bonuses) ▪ 5 weeks annual leave @ SGD$3500 per week (SGD$2100 for First Officers)

Oh my, thats pretty bad....... that is not tempting me to do anything but reject the call.......

[Bo777]

$61000-88000 flying as an A330 FO based in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Wtf??? Who's going to do that? J* are kidding themselves if they think they're going to get experienced drivers. Safety will ultimately be sacrificed in order to maximise the ceo's bonuses. The public need to become aware of this total exploitation and lack of duty of care to it's cutomers. Unbelievable! Onya J*

[Tiburon peligroso]

Hey breakfastburrito
They look like brothers! Guess the sisters are serving cafe in the cabin!

Just love them smiles....

[Mr Pilot 2007]

I dont see any mention of an accomodation allowance.

So it appears its up to each pilot to sign a lease and pay for it out of their salary.

I understand there are quite a number of new Indian CPL holders that are unemployed as a result of this recession. Sending whats left of their income after rent & cost of living may be ok with their exchange rate.

Not so sure when you convert it to Aussie dollars though, unless of course saving for a mortgage for when you return to Australia isnt important to you.

Then again, with this appalling trend by j*, you may never be able to return to Aus for a pilots position, but rather only return upon your retirement.

[caneworm]

Good news for future cadets.

Sign up for the J* cadet programme & apply for HECS to cover your costs.
You will not be required to repay the HECS debt ‘cos you’ll never cross the income threshold.

[A. Le Rhone]

What in God's name are we allowing to be done to our profession?

[Counter-rotation]

mourgo - are you supplying suitable applicants with a TR if required?!

Don't worry about replying, on the off chance that your post is not a wind up...

CR

[DrPepz]

SQ Pilot Salary

I dug out this article from 2007. How does the SQ pay compare with Jetstar SIN base?

-----


Boeing 777 captains get higher pay than SIA vice-presidents
Karamjit Kaur, Aviation Correspondent
665 words
24 April 2007
Straits Times
English
(c) 2007 Singapore Press Holdings Limited
Details of airline's salary structure revealed on first day of hearing to settle pay dispute with pilots' union


A SINGAPORE Airlines Boeing 777 captain at the mid-point of his salary bracket makes more than $270,000 a year.


This makes him a bigger earner than a vice-president of the company, who makes $233,270.


SIA has 935 B777 captains and just 36 vice-presidents.


Details of the airline's pay structure for pilots and other staff came to light yesterday, Day 1 of the Industrial Arbitration Court (IAC) hearing to settle a dispute with its pilots' union over salary and benefits.


The pilots have been pushing for higher wages to be paid to those who will be in the cockpit of the Airbus 380 superjumbo, which enters into service later this year.


The High Court hearing follows more than a year of wrangling, during which the two sides met 16 times.


For over two hours yesterday, SIA divisional vice-president for industrial relations Loh Oun Hean, and Captain Robert Ting, vice-president of the Flight Operations Division and chief pilot for the A380, told the court why pilots should not be paid more to fly the A380.


The airline is proposing that A380 and B777 pilots get the same pay; it intends eventually to pay all pilots a common basic salary, regardless of the aircraft type they fly.


The Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore (Alpa-S) argues that A380 pilots should be paid more than those who fly the Boeing 747 jumbo because the new plane is bigger.


Each of SIA's A380s will seat around 480 passengers, about 100 more than the Boeing 747 jumbo now in service.


The airline, in presenting its case to the three-member IAC panel led by IAC president, Justice Tan Lee Meng, said that between 55 and 60 per cent of a pilot's basic pay now depends on the type of aircraft he handles.


For all other payments, including bonuses and productivity allowances, the distinction is between captains and first officers - not type of plane flown.
For instance, a captain makes $55 an hour for the first 70 hours, and a first officer, $36.


Turning to the technical specifications of the A380 and comparing it with other planes in SIA's present and future fleet, Capt Ting told the courtroom packed with more than 60 staff and union members that the truth was that the A380 was really not that difficult to fly.


A pilot for 36 years who test-flew the A380 when it visited Singapore last year, he said the side stick controllers were light and easy to operate.
'I just flew it with my finger tips,' he said.


Although the A380 is heavier, has a taller tail and longer wingspan compared to other jets, technology and automation erased the impact of this added bulk on piloting.


Capt Ting said the plane's operational scope was 'no more complex than the current and future fleets of SIA'.


Because modern aircraft have similar instrument layouts - especially those built by the same manufacturer - an Airbus 345 pilot, for example, would feel 'instantly at home' in an A380 cockpit.


Capt Ting declared that, with the exception of the B747 jet designed more than 30 years ago, there was really no big difference between flying the A380 and any other modern jet.


He noted that the A380, with its four engines, should also be less stressful to fly than, say, a twin-engined B777, which would lose up to half its thrust during take-off if one engine failed.


He also stressed that a pilot's responsibility did not change with the aircraft type he flew: A captain flying a small single-aisle plane still had to go through the same pre-flight and systems checks.


The hearing continues with Alpa-S presenting its case today.

[Mr Pilot 2007]

I believe SQ mainline are paid other allowances on top of their salary. Eg: rent allowance.

[DrPepz]

Yes those figures were presumably for SQ local pilots. I believe expat pilots are paid a rent allowance and and educational allowance for kids. The number of expat pilots at SIA seem to be dwindling though, it's been ages since I got one on my SIA flights.

[KABOY]

The expat contract was effectively withdrawn.

If you were an expat at SQ and remained there, your terms and conditions were renegotiated in line with their local pilots.

[DrPepz]

I know the SIA pilots' union fought for the expat bases in London, Perth, Sydney etc to be shut. However I believe the expat T&Cs are still around.

However if SQ claimed back in 2007 that local B777 FOs were getting S$270k per annum all up, how does this compare to JQ's A330 base in SIN for 2011?

[Mr. Hat]

Not sure if its been posted but..
Inexperienced cadets in Jetstar pilots' seats - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com

Inexperienced cadets in Jetstar pilots' seats
Wednesday, 1 September 2010



Jetstar Airbus A321-200

Jetstar's new cadetship training program has been condemned by pilots, the airline accused of putting profits before safety.
At a meeting last week, almost 400 pilots met to discuss Jetstar's planned employment changes, and said that under Jetstar's pilot training program cadets with "substantially less" experience will be in charge of powerful aircraft, the ABC reported.
Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) President Barry Jackson told the news site airlines are putting savings ahead of passenger safety.
"Young pilots have to pay a substantial amount of money to enter the industry and then work on a reduced salary for the first few years so therefore it is a saving for the airline," he said.
"Airline fares have dropped a lot and therefore the airline companies have to find ways of saving money."
According to AIPA, under traditional standards, pilots require a minimum flying experience of 1,000 to 1,500 hours before they are permitted into the pilot's seat.
However, Jetstar's cadetship program would put cadets with just 200 hours of flying experience in charge of commercial planes, a trend that is likely to take off across the globe, Mr Jackson said.
"We're introducing a lower level of experienced pilot in an aircraft," he told the ABC.
"Cadets have a lot less hours...and with the expansion that is likely to go on around the Asia-Pacific region, we will see a lot less experienced pilots entering flight decks.
"To put a fairly inexperienced pilot in the right-hand seat of a jet or a high-speed turbine puts a lot of pressure on the pilot in the left-hand seat.
"We want to ensure proper training is carried out throughout all the industry so that our standards are kept up to the very high levels we've come to expect in Australia."
A Jetstar spokesman rejected APIA's safety concerns, telling the ABC, that the airline "conducts its business to the highest safety standards".
"This is about providing the opportunity for highly skilled individuals to take a streamlined approach to entry into a major domestic and international airline with a world-class quality provider," he said.
"Further, they will participate in a funding arrangement where candidates avoid the significant up-front fees should this be done by them individually."
The Jetstar Group website offers prospective pilots, "a new and exciting career pathway to become a First Officer flying on modern Airbus A3320...aircraft" under a program which sees would-be pilots pay an upfront fee to Jetstar while the remainder of their training fees is taken from their future pay packets.

and


Jetstar boss doesn't fly with pilots - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com

Jetstar boss doesn't fly with pilots
Tuesday, 24 August 2010
Almost 400 pilots have issued a “no confidence” vote in Jetstar Group boss Bruce Buchanan following Jetstar’s proposed planned employment changes.
Just weeks after Mr Buchanan was promoted to Group Chief Executive in line with the company’s strategy to expand its Asia region operations, about 400 disgruntled pilots packed Sydney's Wolli Creek Rowers Club in protest, the Sydney Morning Herald reported.
Angry that Jetstar’s expansion into Asia would see Singapore and Vietnam-based pilots transferred to Australia and paid only award rates, the pilots passed a unanimous motion declaring the move “an offensive attempt by Jetstar management...to pit pilots against each other to secure their careers", the newspaper reported.
Pilots also declared that they "no longer have confidence Bruce Buchanan as the Group Chief Executive Officer of the Jetstar group".
The meeting saw predominantly Jetstar and Qantas pilots encouraged to "not to do the airline any favours" during September.
According to the newspaper’s source Australian and International Pilots Association officials advised pilots against illegal industrial action, but to "do what they could within the law", including refusing to show up early for pre-flight planning, likely to result in flight delays.
Further action considered would see pilots refusing to work outside scheduled hours and not taking on more than a minimum load of fuel, meaning flight diversions should in-flight delays occur.
"We don't want to do anything that will cause delays to passengers," a Jetstar pilot told the newspaper.
"But we do want Jetstar and Qantas to stop undermining our wages and conditions and opportunities to progress through the company by putting pilots into shelf companies where our Enterprise Bargaining Agreement doesn't apply."
Jetstar's head of corporate relations, Simon Westaway told the Sydney Morning Herald rumours of a go-slow by Jetstar pilots have been in circulation for some time, but the airline's on-time performance figures did not reflect pilot action on this front.
"We've got a good, tight airline that is committed to the best service delivery to customers," Mr Westaway said.

the word is spreading...

[The Green Goblin]

200 Chinese pilots 'falsified resumes' | News.com.au

Another reason why we don't want these chaps flying airliners into Australia

CHINESE authorities are investigating the qualifications of the nation's commercial pilots after revelations that more than 200 of them had falsified their resumes.

The probe comes after 42 people died on August 24 when a Brazilian-made regional jet flown by Henan Airlines crashed at a small airport in northeastern China's Heilongjiang province.

Fifty-four passengers and crew survived the crash, in which the plane missed the runway, sparking speculation that pilot error was to blame.

The investigation was launched by the Civil Aviation Administration of China, the country's aviation regulator, the central government's news website said.

The resumes of more than 200 Chinese commercial pilots were found to have been falsified, the report said, with some of them embellishing their flight histories.

At least half of the pilots in question worked for Shenzhen Airlines, which owns Henan Airlines, the government report said.





Investigators were looking into the possibility of pilot error in the Henan Airlines crash, it added.

The crash was China's first major air disaster in nearly six years.

Authorities have already ordered safety checks of the country's fast-growing civil aviation fleet of 1300 planes in the wake of the disaster.

Last week, the aviation administration said it was looking for crash clues related to the plane's manufacturer, operator, crew, maintenance record, and with air traffic management and the airport authorities.

Authorities in central Henan province have also ordered the airline to change its name to prevent the crash from tarnishing the province's image. The company had previously been known as Kunpeng Airlines.

The accident occurred after the plane missed the runway and crashed into a field next to the airport, cracking the cabin and triggering an explosion and subsequent fire, state media reported earlier, citing an initial probe.

[Mr. Hat]

The CEO's of these low cost carriers are really a danger to the industry and the travelling public. Buchanan wants 200 hr foreign trained pilots to take over the jobs of Australian trained and experienced pilots. O'Leary wants an FA instead of a first officer.

I know its unlikely to happen but its the dangerous attitude of these individuals that is the real concern.

Is it time for a psychiatric assessment to be put in place for these "staff members"?

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary Criticised For Plan To Replace Co-Pilots With Air Stewardesses | UK News | Sky News

5:37pm UK, Saturday September 04, 2010
Sarah Gordon, Sky News Online
Airline pilots have accused Ryanair's Michael O'Leary of endangering passengers' safety after he called for co-pilots to be replaced with air stewardesses



Dismissing the vital role of second pilots, Mr O'Leary suggested money could be saved by getting rid of them all together.
If the pilot were to run into problems he suggested an air stewardess, trained to land the plane, could step in.
However, his flippant comments have led to outcry among pilots, who claim the decision would put passengers' lives at risk.
The British Airline Pilots' Association said the move would be "unwise and unsafe" with one senior pilot going as far as to say it would be a "recipe for business disaster."
His suggestion is unwise, unsafe and the public will be horrified.
BALPA spokesperson
The Ryanair boss, who has headed the airline for 17 years, made the comments in an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek magazine.
"Really, you only need one pilot. Let's take out the second pilot. Let the bloody computer fly it," he said.
"If the pilot has an emergency, he rings the bell, he calls her in, she could take over."
A BALPA spokesman condemned the comments, saying: "Are there no lengths to which he will not go to get publicity?
"His suggestion is unwise, unsafe and the public will be horrified."
A senior pilot, who wished to remain anonymous, also criticised the move, saying: "The public have no wish to be flown at cheap rate into their graves."
He said that although Mr O'Leary may think "he will be laughing all the way to the bank", he would in fact see a worried public "desert him".
"In reality, it would be a recipe for business disaster, with the public deserting the airline in droves."
This is not the first time the Ryanair boss has landed himself in hot water with controversial comments, deigned to create maximum publicity for the airline.
Mr O'Leary has already suggested the airline reduce the number of toilets on board and make them coin operated to bring in more money.
He also put forward plans for stand-up space on flights, an idea that was rubbished by the European Aviation Safety Agency.