Jetstar Casual Cabin Crew

[Jack Ranga]

Well................If you're desperate and will do anything to enter the profession you get no empathy from me.

Time to read the safety card just a little more carefully

[digging the dirt]

Casuals

I'm in my early 30's and have been with Jetstar for 2 years. First of all I thinks 3 week's training is a joke, when I started the ground school went for 6 week's. Online the lack of experience and JQ training shows. You will see a casual standing in the back galley the interphone will go off and no reaction at all, Same for call bells. I feel sorry for the poor CM who will turn up at sign-on and realise they are flying with 3, 18-19yr olds who have just been checked to line. They pass the casuals, anyone for that matter because they are desperate. Pass rates of 90%+, well its not hard when the multiple choice answer is so obvious.

I must admit the casuals have a wealth of knowledge of basic ep's during breifing It's when **** hits the fan inflight that I think the real issues will arise, that is lack of work and life experience.

[avigirl]

umm, Digging the Dirt, there a lot of older casuals there as well, some have previously worked for companies like Virgin, Qantas, Easy Jet, American Airlines as c/c, so they aren't all young with no life experience. How much did you have when you joined anyway?

They pass the casuals, anyone for that matter because they are desperate. Pass rates of 90%+, well its not hard when the multiple choice answer is so obvious.

What rubbish,the casuals have to be even smarter and more switched on as they have to absorb a six week course in three and still meet the same standard as the course syllabus is CASA approved and cannot be circumvented.They are doing 12 to 14 hour days and still have to eat sleep and study.

Online the lack of experience and JQ training shows. You will see a casual standing in the back galley the interphone will go off and no reaction at all, Same for call bells. I feel sorry for the poor CM who will turn up at sign-on and realise they are flying with 3, 18-19yr olds who have just been checked to line.

So I suppose you were just the perfect flight attendant on your first couple of trips never a mistake always on the ball, what a hero.

I must admit the casuals have a wealth of knowledge of basic ep's during breifing It's when **** hits the fan inflight that I think the real issues will arise, that is lack of work and life experience.

Again what rubbish,you THINK the real issues will arise etc, you don't really know. You are drawing on your whole two years experience to make this very subjective judgment. I have seen some highly experienced c/c lose it when the pressure is on. It is all to do with personality and mental strength not lack of work or life experience.

[avigirl]

Well........Jack Ranga, if you are cabin crew, shouldn't empathy be one of your foremost qualities?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Have to fund yourself for the three weeks of training,

Isn't that a breach of the Fair Work Act? (Tidbinbilla, you probably know for sure).

From the Fair Work website...
"You should be paid for all hours you work, including trial shifts or probation periods, meetings, training and opening and closing the business."

If I get a chance I'll trawl through the Act and look for the actual section, but my understanding was that unpaid training was illegal except for voluntary organizations.

[Jack Ranga]

Avigirl,

I'm not in the habit of lecturing, I've made enough mistakes in life myself

I don't think people in Oz need to be desperate in regard to finding employment.

There's also a fair days pay for a fair days work.

I'd suggest that any of the casuals that have accepted these positions knew full well what the pay was going to be, what other f/a's in other airlines are earning etc and the hours of work.............

If the job is accepted knowing the above, well, suck it up, do the job or move on. Maybe then companies who engage in these practices may figure out it costs them more in the long run.

[Jethro Gibbs]

avigirl works for the third party labor hire recruiter for sure they all speak the same line of crap I would bet she ain,t on a casual agreement.

[avigirl]

Jack Ranga, none is suggesting they are not "sucking it up", obviously they are, however, some of you seem to be bagging them out and deeming them unsuitable for accepting and filling positions they have a passion for that have arisen and which may be the only way they can enter this area at this present time-it's not any fault of theirs various airlines have this shallow minded cost cutting idealogy. I'm sure there will be some awesome cabin crew come out of it as obviously they aren't doing it for the money or conditions.

[avigirl]

Jethro Gibbs, how about noooooooo, don't work for them

[Jethro Gibbs]

you sure are pushing them

[Worrals in the wilds]

...so, will they work for free? I'm starting up an airline that flies to Honiara...

...deeming them unsuitable for accepting and filling positions they have a passion for that have arisen and which may be the only way they can enter this area at this present time-it's not any fault of theirs various airlines have this shallow minded cost cutting idealogy.

Whether they are suitable or not is irrelevant if the training provided is unsatisfactory. Very few people can succeed at anything without being trained properly.

As for the title, it's not as silly as it sounds. Before aviation, government and a few other activities my first career was in the entertainment industry. In the last twenty years it has been rogered by people with Passion and no sense of their own value, which is why many rewarding (if badly paid) showbiz career paths are now almost extinct in Australia.

For example, say you own a television company. Why hire scriptwriters and professional actors at award rates to produce a good series when a bunch of exhibitionist bogans will be locked in a donger and perform for free?
Why pay professional models when gullible teenagers with stars in their eyes will undercut any attempts to get reasonable pay because they Wanna Be A Supermodel and will work for free?
Why pay talented strippers by the hour when a bunch of drugged up ferals will work purely for tips?
Who cares if the product is inferior when people still buy it? People will buy all sorts of crap if you market it properly, just ask Maccas.

Of course, entertainment is not a 'serious' industry in that people don't get hurt by substandard employees. No-one got injured by bad reality shows, and no-one died because a lousy model fell over on the catwalk (well maybe the designer if he was one of those excitable campy types ).

Aviation is different. FAs have an important safety function, and once in a while people live or die by their decisions, training and ability. It is a safety dependent job that should demand a basic level of expertise, and CS skills, personality, 'passion' and general bonkability are secondary (if traditional) skills. To argue that 'passion' is all that matters in an FA is wrong. If people want to be FAs for free then that's their problem, but if the core training is rushed and inadequate (and it sounds that way) then there is a public safety risk.

I have seen some highly experienced c/c lose it when the pressure is on. It is all to do with personality and mental strength not lack of work or life experience.

No it isn't. Personality plays an important part but training, practice, confidence and familiarity are vital components of being cool under fire. That is why emergency services departments and the military spend so much time practising scenarios. The coolest person in the world will not often react well in an unfamiliar situation.

Of course there'll still be people willing to apply under Jetstar's conditions. There are people willing to work for free in disgusting conditions in fashionable industries. But don't expect applause and congratulations from the people in the aviation industry who still value substance over style, practice over passion and reasonable pay and conditions for keeping pax safe.
Avigirl, if you are wanting people to support low paid, badly trained, exploited aviation workers who still keep working for said exploiter in a country with 5% unemployment, then I believe you have come to the wrong IP address.

Also, have a readup on the Nuremburg Defence and why it doesn't work in court.

[whatever6719]

What a great post Worrals!!!
It is an unfortunate paradox that those who feel they want the job so badly and are so mesmorised by the idea of it end up destroying it for themselves and others over time.
Speaking from experience, the job looks pretty bloody good when looking at it from a pax perspective. Ignorance is bliss!! Once reality sets in and they really see the job warts and all, those rose coloured glasses fall off pretty quickly!!

I still love the job overall. Im fortunate that im on a decent contract. It is still
soul destroying seeing the profession being slowly devalued to a Mc job.

Ahhhh, globalisation!!!

[hollyrc]

casual cabin crew jetstar

Did anyonee go to the brisbane altara/jetstar casual cabin crew interveiw ?
if so who has heard back !!! its killing me waiting !!!!!

[hollyrc]

pleaseee anyone!!

[Dj Dave]

holly go to bunnings. buy some bricks. build a bridge and get over it

[avigirl]

Worrals in the Wilds, i just don't think you get what i'm trying to get through to you. I've been in the Aviation industry for 30 years. 20-30 years ago, cabin crew had a 20 minute interview one day and if they were successful, started training the next week. None of the crap that goes on today, and alot of them are still flying. The average age was 19-20 for the domestics and 21 for international. I don't know how you can generalise and say these JetStar casuals are any less capable than anyone else - Most take it quite seriously thank you and will make excellent cabin crew and any that don't, simply don't make it through. There are the same factors with the full timers, not all of them take it as seriously as they should either. Sure it isn't the perfect situation for them to be treated substandardly and paid a crap wage but if anything it would weed out the ones who weren't passionate about it as they could get paid more at Aldi packing shelves. If they don't do it, someone else will. I've come across a fair amount of questionable cabin crew in my time who are being paid a hell of a lot more, had the 6 weeks training, treat passengers as subhumans yet still manage to keep their jobs even though they're demeanor shows they are well and truely over the whole thing. Safety issues are of paramount importance of course however i don't think you should just assume these people would be any less efficent and capable as anyone else.

Unfortunately, it doesnt appear to be a job for life anymore as airlines want to get what they can out of everyone and spit them out before they are eligible for such things as long service etc etc. Look at the SQ c/crews, they are lucky to make it past 30 and are subject to humiliating weight checks etc.

Aren't the consulting companies who are hired by the airlines to outsource run by former cabin crew and airline management people? Your beef should be with them and the attitude of the cost cutting mentality of the airlines concerned, not the poor buggers trying to get into an industry they love. It is more expensive to park at the airport than to buy a dam ticket somewhere today yet there are not the potential life threatening situations for a car parked in a car park as there are for getting on a plane to go somewhere.

Maybe you all need to get together as a "team", support each other and address the matter constructively with the airlines concerned.

[standard unit]

The average age was 19-20 for the domestics and 21 for international.

What utter rubbish.

20 to 30 years ago those employed by QF in the role of a flight attendant came from a varied range of backgrounds.

The common thread amongst them being that they came with practical skills developed outside the industry and/or life experience.

Tradesmen, teachers, fire fighters, nurses, accountants, police etc still feature heavily in our ranks.

The job came with good conditions and pay and was highly sought after with thousands often applying for a handful of positions.

QF had the ability to choose the best and did so.

Now it's a McJob and QF have resorted to using face-book to advertise for positions vacant.

[avigirl]

Still highly sort after with thousands applying for a handful of positions and same still applies, varied backgrounds and ages with a variety of life experiences - a few of them might be on the young side but have you seen any of the airlines careers websites? states you have to be over 18, so if they really want mid twenties/thirties with heaps of life experience etc, why don't they just put that and stop wasting peoples time (not saying that everyone in that older age/life experience background is mature and not wrong for the job too though). You shouldn't generalise about these people, i've seen some pretty immature and apaulling cabin service from some of the so called pick of the bunch over the years.

And everyone is using social networking sites to advertise for positions nowadays. I've seen some pretty unprofessional photos of airline crews, on their f/book accounts, with some being in full uniform . Unless these new recruits know someone on the inside, how would they know this training is usually done over a six week period and that the pay hasn't always been that bad? They probably think it is how is always was. As far as they're concerned, they're probably just excited to get into a job they want to do, just like you were once upon a time (your good fortune to have been paid twice, or more, as much and not treated like some sort of inadequate subspecies though). Try not to discriminate against these people, it's not their fault. Management are the selfish, greedy bastards in this situation. Would you feel better if they were trained over the six weeks and given better conditions? I'm sure they would relish it too. Take it up with companies concerned and do your best to rectify the situation.

[domaus]

Yes thousands still apply... but those applying are no longer the experienced type - most are youngsters due to the conditions. You would rarely find anyone wanting to drop pay to be a casual unless they were living at home/flat mating and don't earn much more than offered. Back in the day the ones applying were experienced in life for a start. Most airlines now don't offer much service so neither do the applicants. The quality has dimished heavily. And its all airlines. But yes, its the airlines' fault. Basically if you want the job - apply. If you don't, don't. But in my opinion these casual conditions/cheaper contracts appeal to those who cannot offer much and never have. Pay peanuts get monkeys. Simple! And soon, possibly, the industry could be all monkeys! At least in the USA for example the money isn't good but seniority is a benefit (lifestyle). No new contract or airline offers that, or even bidding in the lower cost airlines/casuals. And day trips for the low cost airlines is not the picture some newbies have in mind!
So after a few months of flying four sector days, if no say over lifestyle doesn't appeal, money doesn't appeal, lack of overnights in some low cost airlines, the appeal of being a flight attendant dimishes quickly and has a shelf life for most of a year or two.
In ten years time I reckon a high percentage of the population (!) would be able to say 'oh yeah, I was a flight attendant once!' Nearly everyone I know outside the industry knows a flight attendant or ex flight attendant already!

[cody24]

Well

Seems to be A LOT of new Jetstar crew who are getting Casual Cabin Crew positions. All seem to be young people. Guys - you seriously need to think about this. Jetstar will prob only offer you minimal hours, as long as they have a high number of staffing levels it gives them maximum flexibility in terms of crewing. I just don't see how you can survive with such few hours - and being on call for the rest. Sure, it may work for middle aged mothers and various other situations, but not for all. Don't think you can transfer into a full time role after a few months - that is simply not the way Jetstar operates. At this rate Jetstar won't offer anymore fulltime positions if hundreds of people are desperate for a cabin crew role and settle for casual.