jetstar moving Aussie jobs offshore?

[Normasars]

Any kind of grading except for "competent", "competent with training" and "not competent" is too subjective.

We are all very much aware of the disconnects between various "Checkies".

What one guy sees as a 4, another may see as a 2+ and so on. Not to mention if there is a personality clash between the "checkie" and the candidate. Too much room for the "boys' club" with gradings of 1-5 or A-E IMHO.
The competency based evaluation is by nature of the assessment non-biased. One is either good enough, good enough with training input ie a repeat, or not good enough.

[waren9]

You're all on the wrong track. Promotions will be awarded according to:
1. Who takes the least sick leave
2. Who accepts the most late changes from crewing.
3. Who comes in off leave or days off to work the most.
4. Who files the least number of OSCARs or fatigue or other sfatey reports.
5. Who doesnt bid for leave but accepts company assigned leave.
6. Who accepts leave without pay over the quiet months with no notice
7. You get the idea.

Company IT can easily capture stats and rank 200 F/O's on the above.

[Keg]

Bombay, thanks for making my point with a very selective example. So let's extrapolate that example a little. How do you rank that former Captain against the F/O who has been in the company for the previous three years, has ticked all the boxes and was previously a turbo prop Captain. What about an ex-military A330 driver? What about an ex EK F/O who has been in J* for a bunch of years? What about the F/O who has never held a command previously but has been in J* for five years and is (subjectively) considered to be an excellent command prospect? If you can rank all those it would be appreciated.

[Mstr Caution]

Waren9

This ones a give away:

1b: Sick leave does not (coincidently) fall on the same date as the DOB registered thru staff travel for other family members.

[Bombay HF]

Keg....Very easy. 1. Ex EK FO (Most FOs in Jetstar probably don't have the minimum requirements to even apply to Emirates). 2. Ex Military A330 (Assuming FO, if not then swap 1. with 2.). 3. Jetstar FO with 5 years experience). 4. Jetstar FO ex Turbo Prop Capt ( light twin). Jetstar is in it's infancy and expanding rapidly and needs the flexibility to pick and choose. 5 years from now when all has settled down and most people joining are more closely matched in age and experience then promotion on "seniority" may be more practicable.

[404 Titan]

Bombay HF

Most FOs in Jetstar probably don't have the minimum requirements to even apply to Emirates

Doubtful. Most JQ DEFO applicants in the past have come from the regionals. Same for DJ. Since there hasn’t been much recruitment or promotion at either of these airlines since the GFC started, even if someone joined in 2007 with the bare minimum requirements they would probably exceed or be close to exceeding EK’s requirements by now.

Emirates DEFO requirements.

• A minimum of 4000 hours total flying time.
• A minimum of 2000 hours multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft.

or

• A minimum of 2500 hours total flying time on a modern commercial multi-engine, multi-crew jet aircraft.

and

• Must hold a valid ICAO ATPL.
• English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension); ICAO English level (4 or above).
• Experience commensurate with age.
• Type rated would be advantageous

Jetstar Australia DEFO requirements.

• Hold an Australian ATPL;
• Have passes in all Australian ATPL subjects or equivalent;
• Hold, or be eligible to hold, an Australian Class 1 Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating;
• Current Class 1 Medical Certificate;
• ICAO Level 6 English Language Proficiency;
• Hold, or be eligible to hold, relevant Australian Permanent Residency status or an unrestricted right to work in Australia (or the equivalent for New Zealand if applying for Jetstar operations in New Zealand);
• Be eligible to hold and maintain, an Australian Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC);
• A person will not be appointed unless Jetstar is satisfied that the person's employment with Jetstar will at all times be subject only to those industrial instruments which bind Jetstar at the time it considers the person's application.

And:

• Minimum 1500 hours total aeronautical experience of which 500 hours may be helicopter time;
• 500 hours Pilot in Command or First Officer on Multi Engine Aircraft; and
• 250 hours Pilot in Command of fixed-wing aircraft of which 150 may be ICUS.

Note

• Glass cockpit and multi-crew experience preferred
• In exceptional circumstances the Appointments and Promotions Committee may determine that a pilot is sufficiently qualified and experienced for recruitment with less than the qualifications and experience specified above.

[magicbox]

Race to the Bottom

There is always one......

Jetstar to send 2 A330 to Singapore
Crew from entire J* family given opportunity to fly A330 on attractive terms & conditions
Crew from entire J* family given opportunity to transfer to Australia and work NOT on J* Aust conditions but J* GROUP conditions

Great news for those at Jetstar.....
Now you will have:

1. A bypassed Seniority System for any future progression
2. Terms & conditions to fly A330 comparable to any other high flying third world airline in the region.
3. The opportunity to go, fly something cheaper than everyone else, only to come back to Aust and get paid even less than when you left
4. Opened the door to J* Asia, NZ, Vietnam pilots to operate in your own backyard cheaper than you so when it comes to EBA time another group can be used as bargaining chips against you.
5. The chance to stagnate in your current role unless you want point 3.
6. Set a new bar for everyone else in Australia that can be again used as bargaining power.
7. Probably fly the 787 or box kite (whichever is cheaper) at a bargain basement price from any destination you like as long as its not Australia.
8. Cadets which will more than likely take any available FO slots as they will still be cheaper than a new "GROUP J*" employee.
9. Zero chance at getting any sort of group cohesion as there will be 800+ pilots all on different contracts trying to stab each other in the back as management offer all manner of deals come J* Aust EBA time.

Comments? Anyone.............

[t_cas]

I know this will sound callous, but the reality is that with the safety record that has been maintained throughout Australia, we have essentially become a comfortably regulated, risk managed group, that has become so safe people are falling over themselves trying to make money out of that hard earned fact.

I have one term for this entire display of what essentially is poor airmanship, LATENT FAILURE.

Accountants have no place in this industry apart from the accounts department. Please let us know what you think about the numbers, but let a manager of Airline operations make the the decisions on the most sensible and SAFE way forward.

The constant undermining that is taking place will end in a spectacularly public display of denial that would be at home on prime slot of big brother.

I think that although I long for the days of old, that there is a place for that old adage of bringing romance back to air travel. It is not an inherently safe place to be in an aircraft at 41000 feet travelling at mach .85!

[The The]

Accountants have no place in this industry apart from the accounts department. Please let us know what you think about the numbers, but let a manager of Airline operations make the the decisions on the most sensible and SAFE way forward.

Ummm. Didn't somebody mention it is a former management pilot who is setting up this new crewing venture?

[Private Patjarr]

Calling all Team Jetstar Pilots

magicbox

That sums it up perfectly. Surely all the FOs are watching their career paths come to an abrupt holt.

If any Jetstar pilot isn't in a union yet then join up IMMEDIATELY.

You are going to need it very shortly.

[Van Gough]

If any Jetstar pilot isn't in a union yet then join up IMMEDIATELY.

TWU.

Good enough for bus drivers. You don't see bus drivers paying for jobs and getting ****e pay....

[magicbox]

VAN Gough has a good point. If all pilots joined the TWU maybe pilots Australia wide wouldn't be in the mess we're in now and the bigger mess we'll all be in with the constant deterioration of conditions.

AFAP & AIPA are constantly accused of hidden agendas & protecting their self interest. Maybe it's time to try a different tact?

What's left to lose???

Aren't we all perceived as just "bus drivers" anyway....
At least real bus drivers stick together.

[max1]

Normasars

Reference the point about about the Check and Training.
The best way to get a handle on the 'subjective' use of evaluating a persons true rating is to collate the checkies score.
To do this all you have to do is to keep a record of what each checkie is giving. If checkie A,B, and C are giving score X to an individual/s, and checkie D is giving Y, it may be that checkie D has an agenda that is not in keeping with how the company wants it's evaluations done in an 'objective' sense. The problem may be with the checkie not the individual.
I have been told by a long time Qantas C&T that this is what they do.
If one believes the whole C&T training area is 'compromised' maybe it's time to run.

[Traffic]

By the same logic it is also time to outsource the entire military and the political function as well.

The Govt of the day can take the kudos when it all goes well and deny culpability when it goes pear-shaped.

No more problems with refugee boats because we will have lost our sovereignty by then.

Seriously, where will this mindless outsourcing stop.

Everytime I get a call from an outsourced call-center, I order the vindaloo...which is where the country is heading I am afraid

[A. Le Rhone]

The anti-offshoring stance worked very well for the QF Engineers.

Why don't you J* guys start ramping-up a publicity campaign along the same lines?