New airport measures not enough: expert
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shift in thinking required perhaps?
It's interesting when you talk seriously to ordinary Australians, that they recognise the medling in world (read other peoples business) by certain super powers, will result in extremist activities in reprisal. As an alliance country WE have danced to the Iron Eagle's tune now for some time and are unfortunately complicit in many yet to be prosecuted 'illegal' activities. Oil, and money my friends. As soon as I saw the idiot media trot out an 'expert' I thought, "oh yea, sais him", and it wasn't long before I heard the self fullfilling prophet and his doctrine of tripe all in the name of empire building.
How long before some nut points a PA31 loaded with NItropil and desiel, launched from a dirt strip (no screening there my friend) at a fully loaded B747 at the holding point. What will be the response then, perhpaps Surface to Air missiles at every airport????
Give me a break
If I see one more Minister, or one more 'expert' tell me about 'airport safety' I think I will go and drive bloody trains
How long before some nut points a PA31 loaded with NItropil and desiel, launched from a dirt strip (no screening there my friend) at a fully loaded B747 at the holding point. What will be the response then, perhpaps Surface to Air missiles at every airport????
Give me a break
If I see one more Minister, or one more 'expert' tell me about 'airport safety' I think I will go and drive bloody trains
This is just the politicians being seen to be doing something in case of an attack.The reality is any terrorist can drive down Bay st. Brighton (sydney) put their tinny in the water row out to the end of 34 and blast the S..t out of any aeroplane on approach with their rocket launcher.
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Exactly mates rates. What is stopping a car/truck driving along QF Drive, stopping as an aircraft is on final approach and stopping to denoate something?
Terrorists are always going to get around any rules in place. The only way to stop it is stop all flying - but the then the terrorists win.
It is the same as car accidents - governments keep putting in rules and punishing people, but while there are roads and people drive, there will always be accidents and people will be killed.
Terrorists are always going to get around any rules in place. The only way to stop it is stop all flying - but the then the terrorists win.
It is the same as car accidents - governments keep putting in rules and punishing people, but while there are roads and people drive, there will always be accidents and people will be killed.
I wonder if Mr Carmody has any afiliations, directly or otherwise, with companies supplying screening equipment?
He is a "former" head of security of an organisation that ceased to exist a long time ago. Sounds very much like someone desperately trying to keep themselves in the limelight.
He is a "former" head of security of an organisation that ceased to exist a long time ago. Sounds very much like someone desperately trying to keep themselves in the limelight.
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Mates Rates is right and it could as easily be one of these religous fanatics knocking off a petrol tanker and driving it into a shopping center or the center of Sydney,the Bridge or wherever and detonating it.
That's all true but does that mean we stop protecting air travel?
We need some QC who would take this on and with the airline unions paying him/her to take the case and show how stupid it is being done now.Once the public see's what a farce it is things might change.
That's all true but does that mean we stop protecting air travel?
We need some QC who would take this on and with the airline unions paying him/her to take the case and show how stupid it is being done now.Once the public see's what a farce it is things might change.
Who is on Drugs?
Mr Hat.
I can assure you that train drivers, doctors, bus drivers and even the odd lawyer in the transport industry is subject to Drug and Alcohol testing.
Saw a legal eagle summarily dismissed because of imbibing a couple of beers at lunch and then returning to his (transport) employer. Biggest mistake was going back to work!
The whole security issue revolves around managing the risks. The incidence of 'terrorist' events around aviation is miniscule compared to the total overall activity in the industry sector.
If the objective of 'additional security' is to curtail the terrorist's options, then the sarin episodes in Japan, the bombings in Madrid and London should have had the same overlay of 'security response' as is now imposed at airports. Didn't happen did it - well at least not to one of the 52 'free states'.
You are NEVER going to be able to completely cocoon aviation from threats - if in fact the threat exists in any real magnitude. While a certain superpower fails to recognise that those who oppose it have intelligence also, we will always be in a cycle of knee-jerk, populist catch-up responses to events as they occur.
I was given a piece of sage commentary recently. Years ago you could ride a motorbike without a helmet. Then to make it 'safer' helmets became law. Bikes got far more powerful. Net result. Helmet just keeps the bits all in one place when the bike and rider part company. Hasn't stopped the event happening, but has sure removed one of the joys of riding. Much the same issue with aviation.
Plainmaker
I can assure you that train drivers, doctors, bus drivers and even the odd lawyer in the transport industry is subject to Drug and Alcohol testing.
Saw a legal eagle summarily dismissed because of imbibing a couple of beers at lunch and then returning to his (transport) employer. Biggest mistake was going back to work!
The whole security issue revolves around managing the risks. The incidence of 'terrorist' events around aviation is miniscule compared to the total overall activity in the industry sector.
If the objective of 'additional security' is to curtail the terrorist's options, then the sarin episodes in Japan, the bombings in Madrid and London should have had the same overlay of 'security response' as is now imposed at airports. Didn't happen did it - well at least not to one of the 52 'free states'.
You are NEVER going to be able to completely cocoon aviation from threats - if in fact the threat exists in any real magnitude. While a certain superpower fails to recognise that those who oppose it have intelligence also, we will always be in a cycle of knee-jerk, populist catch-up responses to events as they occur.
I was given a piece of sage commentary recently. Years ago you could ride a motorbike without a helmet. Then to make it 'safer' helmets became law. Bikes got far more powerful. Net result. Helmet just keeps the bits all in one place when the bike and rider part company. Hasn't stopped the event happening, but has sure removed one of the joys of riding. Much the same issue with aviation.
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It's too easty to sit on the sidelines and criticize the Goverment.
As voting citizens living in a democracy YOU people voted in this government. So this policy is effectively YOUR doing.
If you don't like it then you should change the governments policy by becoming involved in your local council.
That's a stupid argument isn't it?
It's the same stupid argument trotted out by the AFAP supporters to excuse AFAP ineptitude. BTW where is our all mighty union (sorry, Federation) on this matter. Unusually quiet considering their normally very vocal stance in the media.
"Helloooo is there anybody out there......"
If you don't like it then you should change the governments policy by becoming involved in your local council.
That's a stupid argument isn't it?
It's the same stupid argument trotted out by the AFAP supporters to excuse AFAP ineptitude. BTW where is our all mighty union (sorry, Federation) on this matter. Unusually quiet considering their normally very vocal stance in the media.
"Helloooo is there anybody out there......"
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Is it possible that airport security is in reality just a smoke screen put in place to make pax feel safe? If so the level of security doesn't really matter. It is just the appearance that matters. Keep them happy and they will continue to fly. This explanation might explain why there is no need seen for screening of ground staff. It's all about appearances. Screen the aircrew though because this is easy and visible to all. Thus it makes a good show.
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Is it possible that airport security is in reality just a smoke screen put in place to make pax feel safe? If so the level of security doesn't really matter.
Multiply that across all the major airline check-in counters at each eastern captital city airport simultaneously and voila you've just taken out the entire east coast aviation network, killed thousands of people and none or your compatriots ever had to go near a security scanner.
But as long as they scan Pilots (the real threat) then we'll all be safe.
Quote psycho joe
Try doing that at Ben Gurion airport. If you manage to get to the check-in counters with a bomb, you will find the area is surrounded with blast proof glass. If we were serious regarding security at airports, you should have a good look at how the Israelis do security, otherwise the Keystone Cops will prevail.
Quote “thestar.com”
Precisely. A serious terrorist could simply walk into the check-in area of an airport at a peak time, with multiple suitcases of explosives and manage to kill hundreds; All without going anywhere near a security scanner.
Try doing that at Ben Gurion airport. If you manage to get to the check-in counters with a bomb, you will find the area is surrounded with blast proof glass. If we were serious regarding security at airports, you should have a good look at how the Israelis do security, otherwise the Keystone Cops will prevail.
Quote “thestar.com”
The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother
Cathal Kelly Staff Reporter
Published On Wed Dec 30 2009.
While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.
That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.
"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."
That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.
Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?
"The first thing you do is to look at who is coming into your airport," said Sela.
The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?
"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.
Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.
"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"
Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.
Armed guards outside the terminal are trained to observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security are watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.
"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.
You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?
"The whole time, they are looking into your eyes — which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.
Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.
At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate — what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?
"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener.. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'
"Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'"
A screener at Ben-Gurion has a pair of better options.
First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.
Second, all the screening areas contain 'bomb boxes'. If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.
"This is a very small simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.
Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.
"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.
"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela.
"Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."
That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes.
This doesn't begin to cover the off-site security net that failed so spectacularly in targeting would-be Flight 253 bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.
"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."
But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Abdulmutallab would not have gotten past Ben Gurion Airport's behavioural profilers.
So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?
Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.
"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training.. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."
And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.
"Do you know why Israelis are so calm ? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies.
They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say,... ' So far, so good...' Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable
"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."
Cathal Kelly Staff Reporter
Published On Wed Dec 30 2009.
While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.
That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.
"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."
That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.
Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?
"The first thing you do is to look at who is coming into your airport," said Sela.
The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?
"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.
Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.
"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"
Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.
Armed guards outside the terminal are trained to observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security are watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.
"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.
You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?
"The whole time, they are looking into your eyes — which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.
Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.
At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate — what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?
"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener.. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'
"Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'"
A screener at Ben-Gurion has a pair of better options.
First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.
Second, all the screening areas contain 'bomb boxes'. If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.
"This is a very small simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.
Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.
"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.
"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela.
"Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."
That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes.
This doesn't begin to cover the off-site security net that failed so spectacularly in targeting would-be Flight 253 bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.
"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."
But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Abdulmutallab would not have gotten past Ben Gurion Airport's behavioural profilers.
So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?
Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.
"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training.. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."
And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.
"Do you know why Israelis are so calm ? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies.
They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say,... ' So far, so good...' Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable
"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."
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I think we all know that the Israeli's are a hard bunch and don't take $h!t from anyone.
We also know that Tel Aviv would probably be one of the hardest if not the hardest airports to hit even though it would be very high on a number of groups hit lists.
It's easy to say that the Israeli's security at Ben Gurion airport is more efficient and less invasive and could teach Australian airports a thing or two.
The problem as we all know is that of ego and to get the Australian government and airport authorities to take advice and learn from the Israeli's would be like asking Tony Abbott to legalise abortion and wear board shorts when he's on the beach.
The real question is how does it compare to American and European airports in size and passenger volume?
Would their techniques work with airports the size of O'Hare,JFK,Heathrow,Frankfurt etc,
Can you imagine stopping every car that was driving into those airports and asking "How are you?"
Even a 30 second friendly chat would have cars backed up for miles and the author talks about only a 30 or 40 minute security delay compared to Western airports.
Has anyone every tried driving into or out of a Rolling Stones concert compared to a normal drive to the arena?
The other point is that I doubt that the Israeli's use private contractors and do things on the cheap like Australia and allow anyone who has airside access to sidestep security and that means pilots or cleaners.
The Israelification would also mean a huge and I mean immense military presence.
Israel because of their position and past history does have the military to do this on a per capita basis and maybe America as well but not us.
We probably have 90% of our military overseas at the moment.
We also know that Tel Aviv would probably be one of the hardest if not the hardest airports to hit even though it would be very high on a number of groups hit lists.
It's easy to say that the Israeli's security at Ben Gurion airport is more efficient and less invasive and could teach Australian airports a thing or two.
The problem as we all know is that of ego and to get the Australian government and airport authorities to take advice and learn from the Israeli's would be like asking Tony Abbott to legalise abortion and wear board shorts when he's on the beach.
The real question is how does it compare to American and European airports in size and passenger volume?
Would their techniques work with airports the size of O'Hare,JFK,Heathrow,Frankfurt etc,
Can you imagine stopping every car that was driving into those airports and asking "How are you?"
Even a 30 second friendly chat would have cars backed up for miles and the author talks about only a 30 or 40 minute security delay compared to Western airports.
Has anyone every tried driving into or out of a Rolling Stones concert compared to a normal drive to the arena?
The other point is that I doubt that the Israeli's use private contractors and do things on the cheap like Australia and allow anyone who has airside access to sidestep security and that means pilots or cleaners.
The Israelification would also mean a huge and I mean immense military presence.
Israel because of their position and past history does have the military to do this on a per capita basis and maybe America as well but not us.
We probably have 90% of our military overseas at the moment.
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Is it possible that airport security is in reality just a smoke screen put in place to make pax feel safe? If so the level of security doesn't really matter. It is just the appearance that matters.
How many deaths have occurred as a result of a poorly thought out scheme to insulate your house? 4 – and this dangerous policy is still ok to continue.
Yet another $200mil is being spent to what? – safeguard Australian citizens?
What about the rising road toll? Oh that’s right – speed is the major cause of death even though the speed limits are coming down. You can’t fill the coffers with better roads and driver training.
This policy smells. Smoke, Mirrors, Incompetence and Ass covering at best. Threat to democracy at worst.
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Terrorism might be a real threat in Israel but it isn’t in Australia
Have you thought that the reason no one has committed an act of aviation terrorism lately is because of airport security.
I get the feeling that the main reason why so many people on PPrune are against airport security is that it offends them to have to go through security.
So Erin what is your plan,to stop all airport security and hope for the best?
How many deaths have occurred in Australia as a result of terrorist activity? None
How about the hijacking of a commercial aircraft in Alice Springs in the 70's?
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I think you’re conveniently overlooking the glaring contradiction that doing star-jumps in front of an x-ray machine in the terminal doesn’t secure anyone, when no-one cares about the other people roaming airside freely. It is just a farce, waste of money and an insult to the traveller and tax payer.
Red you might not be offended by stupid policy on a daily basis, but most of us are. What would offend you?
Would you be offended by a night time curfew?
Being implanted with an identification tag?
Or maybe living in common quarters surrounded by barbed wire – all in the name of security of course.
The lack of free thinking today is astounding. I hope the gen Z’s see the wood though the trees.
BTW my “plan” would be an adjustment to foreign policy to reduce the risk before it gets here. But I suppose 50m of razor wire at RPT dirt airstrips and confiscating water bottles will do.
Red you might not be offended by stupid policy on a daily basis, but most of us are. What would offend you?
Would you be offended by a night time curfew?
Being implanted with an identification tag?
Or maybe living in common quarters surrounded by barbed wire – all in the name of security of course.
The lack of free thinking today is astounding. I hope the gen Z’s see the wood though the trees.
BTW my “plan” would be an adjustment to foreign policy to reduce the risk before it gets here. But I suppose 50m of razor wire at RPT dirt airstrips and confiscating water bottles will do.
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Two Michael Carmodys'
I think the Michael Carmody quoted is not the CEO of Customs (and former tax commissioner) but a former director in the Federal Airports Corporation. The Customs guy never worked for the FAC
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Let me see, Ben Gurion is 1 airport. How many international airports does Israel have? Now, have a think about what the cost in pure dollars and cents to do the same at all of the international airports here, or in the US. Next question - Who's paying? You and me. I want value for my money, and plainly I'm NOT going to get it either way.
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Na mate, cause they'd then just give the ak's to the lowest bidding muppets anyway. The fed's wouldn't find a friggen bomb hidden in their own lockers, most of them at least. And that's an observation from the inside, as
you are aware.
you are aware.
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I think you’re conveniently overlooking the glaring contradiction that doing star-jumps in front of an x-ray machine in the terminal doesn’t secure anyone, when no-one cares about the other people roaming airside freely. It is just a farce, waste of money and an insult to the traveller and tax payer.
Red you might not be offended by stupid policy on a daily basis, but most of us are. What would offend you?
Would you be offended by a night time curfew?
Being implanted with an identification tag?
Or maybe living in common quarters surrounded by barbed wire – all in the name of security of course.
Would you be offended by a night time curfew?
Being implanted with an identification tag?
Or maybe living in common quarters surrounded by barbed wire – all in the name of security of course.
Having to pay exorbitant insurance because of other people in our society.
Having to pay for things like airbags and other passive safety devices because the average driver couldn't drive their finger into a tub of warm butter.
Listening to people who make claims that are clearly naive.
BTW my “plan” would be an adjustment to foreign policy to reduce the risk before it gets here
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but I'll tell you what offends me. Listening to people who make claims that are clearly naive.
It's a little late to close the barn door, the horse has bolted a long time ago.
You have to solve the problem – not just treat the symptoms.
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You have to solve the problem – not just treat the symptoms.
As for the airports, you can screen those thousands of people, but only to a certain degree until it costs an absolute fortune and starts to affect aircraft turnaround times. Searching trucks properly takes time and manpower, and there are a heck of a lot of trucks coming into an airport. This is without considering the screening of tens of thousands of airside workers, many of whom repeatedly cross between airside and landside twenty or so times a day.
It can be done, and several countries do it, but the cost, time and infrastructure requriements are BIG. In a place with few actual terrorist incidents, you have to ask if it's worth the money and hassle factor.
I know that sterile area screening is an embuggerance because I worked in terminals for some years, including positions that required frequent too-ing and fro-ing through the screening points, many times a day. It's a pain in the arse, a total waste of time and nothing more than a gesture, but the public want it (according to the screening review), it keeps the crazies under control and it's not going away. You may be dismissive of crazies, but most actual security incidents at Australian airports have involved people with mental health issues, the Sydney bikie debacle being a notable exception.
Any other 'initiatives' will be over and above the existing circus, and don't expect anything other than poorly trained, badly paid subcontractors. If the government was remotely serious about airport security it would have taken back the screening points on 9/12 but it didn't, so it isn't.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 18th Feb 2010 at 08:21.