Team AIPA blames others for poor showing at FWA
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Team AIPA blames others for poor showing at FWA
Apparently TEAM BAZZA
TM had a shocker at the Fair Work Auz tribunal yesterday
Why I've put my faith in these clowns I don't know.
Looks like the only wins they've had since snatching power has been to garner a 6% pay rise for the Lords of the '80
Is their lack of progress on any issue which affects us mere lesser mortals a sign of incompetence or somthing else?
TM had a shocker at the Fair Work Auz tribunal yesterdayWhy I've put my faith in these clowns I don't know.
Looks like the only wins they've had since snatching power has been to garner a 6% pay rise for the Lords of the '80
Is their lack of progress on any issue which affects us mere lesser mortals a sign of incompetence or somthing else?
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Understand your concern JP. Nonetheless, believe it is always more useful to focus on the solution than reflect upon what has been. What could have been doesn’t bear thinking about.
To move forward will require a certain AIPA leaders to come to the view that the AFAP is here to stay and threatening is not helpful. Will also require certain stalwarts in AFAP to bury the past and acknowledge that having two pilot unions in the one Company doesn’t serve the pilots or a company interested in its long run profitability.
The solution lies in a UK, BALPA style affiliation of AIPA, AFAP, VIPA and all other pilot representative organisations in Australia. Ie: an umbrella Association that looks after all matters other than contract compliance which remains the domain of the Company Councils that make up the umbrella Association. _ APA _ Australian Pilots Association.
To move forward will require a certain AIPA leaders to come to the view that the AFAP is here to stay and threatening is not helpful. Will also require certain stalwarts in AFAP to bury the past and acknowledge that having two pilot unions in the one Company doesn’t serve the pilots or a company interested in its long run profitability.
The solution lies in a UK, BALPA style affiliation of AIPA, AFAP, VIPA and all other pilot representative organisations in Australia. Ie: an umbrella Association that looks after all matters other than contract compliance which remains the domain of the Company Councils that make up the umbrella Association. _ APA _ Australian Pilots Association.
Last edited by Gingerbread; 22nd Jan 2010 at 21:28. Reason: Font
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Yr Kidding Right?
So let me get your position on this clear. The AFAP supports 1 Star with the out of seniority awarding of command slots and you wonder why you are a member of AIPA WTF.
Surely you should be asking your associates who are members of AFAP why they support an organisation that so quickly errodes your T&C's and prolongs the race to the bottom in this country.
Have AFAP been threatened again with the loss of flying and scampered back to 1 star with some new deal to "keep the flying" (well until next time that is)
WTF. Surely you should be asking your associates who are members of AFAP why they support an organisation that so quickly errodes your T&C's and prolongs the race to the bottom in this country.
Have AFAP been threatened again with the loss of flying and scampered back to 1 star with some new deal to "keep the flying" (well until next time that is)
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You make a good point Lefty, even if you didn't intend to.
The latest manifestation is but one more problem emanating from outdated representational design and such things are going to continue going on until those who can fix the root cause – as difficult as it is - do so.
The world economy has changed, the aviation industry is rapidly changing and divided pilot representation, like me, has had its day.
The latest manifestation is but one more problem emanating from outdated representational design and such things are going to continue going on until those who can fix the root cause – as difficult as it is - do so.
The world economy has changed, the aviation industry is rapidly changing and divided pilot representation, like me, has had its day.
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I suspect jetstar pilot is a member of the afap....and not a JQ pilot
If you were truly a JQ pilot you would know exactly what has been going on and how Mr CX and crew went to FWA and represented jetstar management and not the majority of jq pilots!!...and bent us over again.
WTF??????
If you were truly a JQ pilot you would know exactly what has been going on and how Mr CX and crew went to FWA and represented jetstar management and not the majority of jq pilots!!...and bent us over again.
WTF??????
Nunc est bibendum
I'm no fan of the entirety of 'team' Bazza but I do support the general direction of the AIPA president even if there are some aspects that disappoint me. However to start a thread to malign the work that AIPA is doing in this case instead of directing the hard questions at the AFAP exec strikes me as strange.
Of course, what seems strange at first glance starts to make sense when a quick view of Jestar pilot's other post is undertaken. A relatively common theme seems to exist. General support for AIPA but continued criticism of 'team Bazza'. As I indicated above, I've got my own issues with various personalities on COM but to define them all as 'team Bazza' is as short sighted and ignorant as those previously who criticised 'team Woodeye', etc.
WRT the case at hand, it's a complex one and it deserves proper consideration- something that I don't think will happen given how the thread was opened and the OP made. Still, perhaps the actual issues will be discussed and all can see whether or not AFAPs actions in this matter serve the majority of their members or just a few.
Of course, what seems strange at first glance starts to make sense when a quick view of Jestar pilot's other post is undertaken. A relatively common theme seems to exist. General support for AIPA but continued criticism of 'team Bazza'. As I indicated above, I've got my own issues with various personalities on COM but to define them all as 'team Bazza' is as short sighted and ignorant as those previously who criticised 'team Woodeye', etc.
WRT the case at hand, it's a complex one and it deserves proper consideration- something that I don't think will happen given how the thread was opened and the OP made. Still, perhaps the actual issues will be discussed and all can see whether or not AFAPs actions in this matter serve the majority of their members or just a few.
The DECS are nothing but a problem , the court case on the 15th will make sure they remain permanently in Darwin or come home as F/Os , which on seniority is all they deserve.
Dont think you can come from overseas and steal jobs from the loyal hard working Aussie pilots. You must wait your turn even if you are double the age of the next best f/O.
One concern from all this though is AIPA is setting things up for QF pilots to enter the company on their terms, think about it they will have 1 year to work at JQ and an option of going back to QF or go to the bottom of the JQ seniority they will get awarded a command in the first year and still keep their command after the 1 year even though they will be on the bottom of seniority, same deal as the DECs.
All F/Os should think twice before supporting AIPA ...................
Dont think you can come from overseas and steal jobs from the loyal hard working Aussie pilots. You must wait your turn even if you are double the age of the next best f/O.
One concern from all this though is AIPA is setting things up for QF pilots to enter the company on their terms, think about it they will have 1 year to work at JQ and an option of going back to QF or go to the bottom of the JQ seniority they will get awarded a command in the first year and still keep their command after the 1 year even though they will be on the bottom of seniority, same deal as the DECs.
All F/Os should think twice before supporting AIPA ...................
What is going on at AFAP?
I am totally gobsmacked at the actions of the AFAP. AIPA's intentions are aimed at improving the T's & C's for all pilots and for the AFAP to support Jetstar in court indicates that they are looking after themselves rather than the people they purport to represent. The opening post by Jetstarpilot displays a level of industrial naivety and he really should be questioning AFAP's actions.
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Rabbitwear.
Rambo has not hit the nail on the head. He needs to go read the MOU again.
Junior pilots in both camps sadly, may again have reason to be nervous about the prospects for mainline this year although for different reasons.
Aside from the fact it is very little use to either of them, it does exist and isnt going away anytime soon.
W9
Rambo has not hit the nail on the head. He needs to go read the MOU again.
Junior pilots in both camps sadly, may again have reason to be nervous about the prospects for mainline this year although for different reasons.
Aside from the fact it is very little use to either of them, it does exist and isnt going away anytime soon.
W9
Last edited by waren9; 21st Jan 2010 at 05:40.
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When the Jetstar pilots where asked about ROR, 90% said "strict seniority" AIPA go to FWA with this, and the AFAP turn up and go against the majority of the pilots wishes to back the company on a technical argument... WHY? AND, how is this a shocker for AIPA? If the AFAP wish to play politics, dont use the Jetstar seniority system as a springboard. Maybe the boys at the Feds cut a deal with Jetstar to get into Management after the AFAP goes bankrupt.
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I think some here need to consider what AIPA was actually trying to achieve yesterday.
It was not a hearing about the merits of strict seniority... that is being heard on another day.
As it presently stands, in February there will be a hearing by FWA as to if Jetstar's current planned filling of vacancies is valid. That was not yesterdays hearing. Yesterday AIPA applied to have Jetstar not allocate vacancies until that case had been heard. The reason? A simple one. People will, under this next allocations, be required to relocate around the country, and begin training. In a month's time, if AIPA is successful, they will all have to move back, and the whole thing unravelled.
So, AIPA was trying to ensure that people were not unnecessarily relocated around the country while the legality of the allocations was in question.
The AFAP sided with the company, with the view that pilots SHOULD be relocated pending the decision of FWA.
I don't know about the AFAP members, but I would have thought that it would be better to know, WITH CERTAINTY, that your move was set in stone BEFORE being made to move across the country! Remember that members of the AFAP - The application they made yesterday was NOT to protect the current agreement... it was to ensure that Jetstar could move pilots around the country BEFORE it has been tested in court... something less than a month away.
If the AFAP wish to protect the current agreement (outside of strict seniority) that is their business... but they did not do that yesterday. Yesterday they sided with Jetstar that allocations should be made and people forced to relocate before the actual hearing was held. The AFAP could very easily have sided with jetstar about the agreement in place, however sided with AIPA in allowing pilots certainty before making them move. They chose not to do that.
And I thought they were supposed to protect their members interests, not have them moving around the country on Jetstar's whim.
It was not a hearing about the merits of strict seniority... that is being heard on another day.
As it presently stands, in February there will be a hearing by FWA as to if Jetstar's current planned filling of vacancies is valid. That was not yesterdays hearing. Yesterday AIPA applied to have Jetstar not allocate vacancies until that case had been heard. The reason? A simple one. People will, under this next allocations, be required to relocate around the country, and begin training. In a month's time, if AIPA is successful, they will all have to move back, and the whole thing unravelled.
So, AIPA was trying to ensure that people were not unnecessarily relocated around the country while the legality of the allocations was in question.
The AFAP sided with the company, with the view that pilots SHOULD be relocated pending the decision of FWA.
I don't know about the AFAP members, but I would have thought that it would be better to know, WITH CERTAINTY, that your move was set in stone BEFORE being made to move across the country! Remember that members of the AFAP - The application they made yesterday was NOT to protect the current agreement... it was to ensure that Jetstar could move pilots around the country BEFORE it has been tested in court... something less than a month away.
If the AFAP wish to protect the current agreement (outside of strict seniority) that is their business... but they did not do that yesterday. Yesterday they sided with Jetstar that allocations should be made and people forced to relocate before the actual hearing was held. The AFAP could very easily have sided with jetstar about the agreement in place, however sided with AIPA in allowing pilots certainty before making them move. They chose not to do that.
And I thought they were supposed to protect their members interests, not have them moving around the country on Jetstar's whim.
Lawrie Cox (yet no balls) you've done it again.
How long before AFAP goes under once all its members leave the sinking ship?
Who cares anyway, hopefully we'll end up with 3 unions joining forces:
AIPA, VIPA and a new GA/Regionals union (which actually achieves outcomes for its members). Bring it on!
How long before AFAP goes under once all its members leave the sinking ship?
Who cares anyway, hopefully we'll end up with 3 unions joining forces:
AIPA, VIPA and a new GA/Regionals union (which actually achieves outcomes for its members). Bring it on!
Who cares anyway, hopefully we'll end up with 3 unions joining forces:
AIPA, VIPA and a new GA/Regionals union (which actually achieves outcomes for its members). Bring it on!
AIPA, VIPA and a new GA/Regionals union (which actually achieves outcomes for its members). Bring it on!
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The one constant in an ever changing universe...The idiotic, mediocre, moronic Aussie Y generation pilot. Hoping so desperately to be taken seriously by serious people; Yet, alas, he wastes his ample spare time on Pprune. Belligerently squabbling with his peers over who's appendage may be of greater girth, length and stamina.
Sadly, as this thread reveals...
1; Ramboflyer: Easy throw-away libelous remarks; ill-informed, innaccurate and naturally, industrially immature. A particularly nice touch with the "taking the jobs of the young hard working Aussie pilots" line...If you drink and blog, you're a bloody idiot.
2; Transition Layer: Are you still around? 900+ posts isn't what I'd call a fine advertisement for someone remotely interesting. Highly skillfull play on words regarding Mr. Cox too by the way. Don't panic mate, I giggle when someone farts, or says penis too... just like my six year old. Rise above your name.
Sadly, as this thread reveals...
1; Ramboflyer: Easy throw-away libelous remarks; ill-informed, innaccurate and naturally, industrially immature. A particularly nice touch with the "taking the jobs of the young hard working Aussie pilots" line...If you drink and blog, you're a bloody idiot.
2; Transition Layer: Are you still around? 900+ posts isn't what I'd call a fine advertisement for someone remotely interesting. Highly skillfull play on words regarding Mr. Cox too by the way. Don't panic mate, I giggle when someone farts, or says penis too... just like my six year old. Rise above your name.