The Qantas dilemma: still your national carrier?
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There will always be people who will put QF down because they are lovers of Asia and Asians.Nothing QF crew or any western airline does will ever compensate.Interestingly I have found some of Orangputi's previous posts to show my point.
Now we find out the real reason for orangputi's dislike of QF
Or this one about pilots.
QF will always be an Australian icon even if people like Darth manage to sell it.
There are people like orangputi that will like anything Asian and that is their choice but to the majority of Australians who are proud of their culture QF will always be the national carrier.
I have a 2 day layover in Shanghai with another chap and we are both partial to a drink and the local talent any bar suggestions that ensure a good night and a bunk up. We are staying at the Shangri-la.
a good night had by all, plenty of local chicks hanging about.
I have a 3 day lay over in Hukou Hainan coming up and being a bit partial to the local talent 2 questions.
1 where should I stay 4-5 star hotels are fine?
2 with point 1 in mind what bars should a frequent for a good bunk up and a good drink?
1 where should I stay 4-5 star hotels are fine?
2 with point 1 in mind what bars should a frequent for a good bunk up and a good drink?
You are right I will now dump SQ with their exceptional service and young attentive flight attendants
As an ex QF employee ( I was an engineer)
When I worked for QF as an engineer you have never met a greater bunch of arrogant overpaid wan#kers (wan#kers@rs) in your entire life.
being called Sir or Captain from the poor engineer who studied harder and has heaps more knowledge about your aircraft and many others like it than you do!
There are people like orangputi that will like anything Asian and that is their choice but to the majority of Australians who are proud of their culture QF will always be the national carrier.
Last edited by RedTBar; 13th Dec 2009 at 02:16.
There will always be people who will put QF down because they are lovers of Asia and Asians.Nothing QF crew or any western airline does will ever compensate
I think you need to remove the emotion Tbar and realise that being Australia's International carrier will not suffice in the future.
Asia's airlines are striving for excellence, not resting on history!
The world's most experienced airline. What does that say about service??
Last edited by KABOY; 13th Dec 2009 at 23:14.
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Sunfish, we all wish cabin crew were as in the seventies, but then you have to consider the difference. Firstly, the cabin crew were offered a job for life if they so wished. Secondly, the word contract had never been heard of. Thirdly, cabin crew were mainly selected on their ability and often came from the ranks of trained nursing sisters, or school teachers, etc, thirdly, they did not come from the me, me, me, generation, they came from anything but, so how can one expect the same service, the same respect, the same behaviour? They are from another generation, with different views of the world, be it right or wrong in our eyes. In the last couple of years that I have flown the Rat, I have come across some great C/C, I have also come across some shockers, who should be shown the door, but that also applies to my bank, my wife's treatment in hospital, even going to the local Westfield, where it is impossible to get anyone to help you, (anyone over sixty is invisible) so it is simply the way of the world like it or not, the airlines are no different to any other institution offering some sort of service??!! 
Also compare the passengers of the 1970s with those of today. Back then flying was a special event, a better class of people flew, they dressed well (look at cabin pictures of B707s) and behaved themselves. Air rage was very rare.
Back then being an airline pilot was a respected and well paid profession, I don't think I need to go into detail about how conditions have deteriorated.
Back then being an airline pilot was a respected and well paid profession, I don't think I need to go into detail about how conditions have deteriorated.
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I took you up on your challenge Kaboy and found
QF finished 6th down from 3rd in Best Airline (not good, but not bad either)
and as for cabin crew,they were judged on these criterion.
I have flown for a couple of these airlines and on all of them at one time or other, and as far as I'm concerned, if the sh!t was to hit the fan, I'd rather be on a Qantas flight, as proved in QF1 at BKK and the MNL bomber, the CC were awesome. Qantas cabin crew have never been found wanting on the rare occasion they have been called on to perform, in an emergency. Research the MH (won best cabin crew, Skytrax 09) F50 accident in Tawau, Sep 1995 and the cabin crews behaviour, for what you can expect from some of these lauded airlines.
QF finished 6th down from 3rd in Best Airline (not good, but not bad either)
and as for cabin crew,they were judged on these criterion.
I have flown for a couple of these airlines and on all of them at one time or other, and as far as I'm concerned, if the sh!t was to hit the fan, I'd rather be on a Qantas flight, as proved in QF1 at BKK and the MNL bomber, the CC were awesome. Qantas cabin crew have never been found wanting on the rare occasion they have been called on to perform, in an emergency. Research the MH (won best cabin crew, Skytrax 09) F50 accident in Tawau, Sep 1995 and the cabin crews behaviour, for what you can expect from some of these lauded airlines.
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BSD,
Personally I don't want to have to wait for some sub-50kg F/A to have to detach part of her sarong kebaya and make sure her little clogs are still on, before she can help me get my 90kg frame get out of the fire.
far as I'm concerned, if the sh!t was to hit the fan, I'd rather be on a Qantas flight, as proved in QF1 at BKK and the MNL bomber, the CC were awesome. Qantas cabin crew have never been found wanting on the rare occasion they have been called on to perform, in an emergency.
Personally I don't want to have to wait for some sub-50kg F/A to have to detach part of her sarong kebaya and make sure her little clogs are still on, before she can help me get my 90kg frame get out of the fire.
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Wow RedTbar arent you incredibly clever to go through my previous posts and comment on them, you have missed you vocation instead of being a trolly dolly you could have completed your doctorate in IT.
As I said before if you really think the product is up to a suitable standard than you are kidding yourselves!
I for one are saddened by QF has become, and to be honest you have no idea what position I am in now to comment on my present or personal situation.
Over and out!
As I said before if you really think the product is up to a suitable standard than you are kidding yourselves!
I for one are saddened by QF has become, and to be honest you have no idea what position I am in now to comment on my present or personal situation.
Over and out!
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Sorry Pegasus you are dead right. How dare a full fare paying punter question the might of the QF flying waitress brigade!
I guess its not my job or livelyhood that is in peril. Go for your life guys continue your arrogance and self importance wow your product is so world class!
Absolute last post good luck guys
I guess its not my job or livelyhood that is in peril. Go for your life guys continue your arrogance and self importance wow your product is so world class!
Absolute last post good luck guys
Last edited by Orangputi; 14th Dec 2009 at 05:22.
Significant active failures
Significant active failures associated with the post-accident events were:
• The cabin interphone and passenger address systems became inoperable (due to impact
damage).
• The flight crew did not consider all relevant issues when deciding not to conduct an
immediate evacuation.
• Some crewmembers did not communicate important information during the emergency period.
Significant active failures associated with the post-accident events were:
• The cabin interphone and passenger address systems became inoperable (due to impact
damage).
• The flight crew did not consider all relevant issues when deciding not to conduct an
immediate evacuation.
• Some crewmembers did not communicate important information during the emergency period.
Significant inadequate defences
Significant inadequate defences associated with Qantas Flight Operations Branch activities
were:
• Procedures and training for flight crew in evaluating whether or not to conduct an
emergency evacuation were deficient.
• Procedures and training for cabin crew in identifying and communicating relevant
information during an emergency were deficient.
Significant inadequate defences associated with Qantas Flight Operations Branch activities
were:
• Procedures and training for flight crew in evaluating whether or not to conduct an
emergency evacuation were deficient.
• Procedures and training for cabin crew in identifying and communicating relevant
information during an emergency were deficient.
No airline is going to be better than another when it comes to systemic failure.
We can all produce facts to support our argument.
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No airline is going to be better than another when it comes to systemic failure.
As I said this is more about some people here and their particular liking for Asian women than anything else.If your idea of good cabin service is a young little asian f/a who had to endure a swim suit parade as part of her selection process then nothing QF does will matter.
If you look at the Skytrax awards you will always see it is the Asian carriers who dominate the awards. If it is not Asian it is the Middle East who have a high percentage of asian cabin crew.
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Orangutang would suggest that the only people whose comments about airline service are the fare paying passengers...well the reality is that those are the only people that the surveys speak to or survey are the fare paying pax.
As such Qantas has never been out of the top 10 to my recollection. I think that the majority of crew do an outstanding job with the tools that they are given.
SQ and the airlines that generally beat Qantas in surveys have newer planes, different IFE and lower cost structures. Despite that, CC deliver what most consider world class service.
Qantas is also one of only two airlines that has an investment grade rating. Lufthansa being the other one i think. I think that investors are the ones that Qantas has considered for a long time and the passengers have suffered there is no doubt.
But the problem is private airlines have to pay the piper and that is the shareholder. Most of the airlines that Qantas competes with have generous tax breaks, levels of govt or semi government support and are geographically located not at the end of the route like qantas but in the middle.
Qantas is also one of the biggest supporters of Australian Tourism, and also behaves like a national carrier responding to calls from community and governement when asked and also volunteering when necessary.
Qantas Cabin Crew and retired Crew also have been recognised as pioneers in raising money for UNICEF through the change for good program, supporting orphanages around the world and raising money for the School for the deaf and blind at north rocks.
Some reading the posts on here would think that Qantas Cabin Crew are neanderthals with no interest in passengers at all. Qantas Cabin Crew both Long Haul and Short Haul do an outstanding job and will continue to do so for many years. In fact all Qantas Group Cabin Crew are fantastic in my opinion and i also pay full fares to travel at times and as cabin crew myself recognise poor service for what it is...isolated.
As such Qantas has never been out of the top 10 to my recollection. I think that the majority of crew do an outstanding job with the tools that they are given.
SQ and the airlines that generally beat Qantas in surveys have newer planes, different IFE and lower cost structures. Despite that, CC deliver what most consider world class service.
Qantas is also one of only two airlines that has an investment grade rating. Lufthansa being the other one i think. I think that investors are the ones that Qantas has considered for a long time and the passengers have suffered there is no doubt.
But the problem is private airlines have to pay the piper and that is the shareholder. Most of the airlines that Qantas competes with have generous tax breaks, levels of govt or semi government support and are geographically located not at the end of the route like qantas but in the middle.
Qantas is also one of the biggest supporters of Australian Tourism, and also behaves like a national carrier responding to calls from community and governement when asked and also volunteering when necessary.
Qantas Cabin Crew and retired Crew also have been recognised as pioneers in raising money for UNICEF through the change for good program, supporting orphanages around the world and raising money for the School for the deaf and blind at north rocks.
Some reading the posts on here would think that Qantas Cabin Crew are neanderthals with no interest in passengers at all. Qantas Cabin Crew both Long Haul and Short Haul do an outstanding job and will continue to do so for many years. In fact all Qantas Group Cabin Crew are fantastic in my opinion and i also pay full fares to travel at times and as cabin crew myself recognise poor service for what it is...isolated.
Tbar,
Take your argument up with Skytrax, I merely stated the facts. Take a breath and read my post again, I am not comparing any airline to another. What I stated is that when one airline is involved in a systemic failure, I don't believe one is going to be better than another.
Unless they have done it so many times, then I think the asian carriers will have it all over QF!
Take your argument up with Skytrax, I merely stated the facts. Take a breath and read my post again, I am not comparing any airline to another. What I stated is that when one airline is involved in a systemic failure, I don't believe one is going to be better than another.
Unless they have done it so many times, then I think the asian carriers will have it all over QF!
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Pegasus 747
you missed a few additional points when you compare QF with Asian & middle East airlines.
1) No Asian& Middle East carrier's board and Ceo's are in for the short term to maximise their salaries and golden hand shakes (like all Australian Boards & CEO's).
2) Asian carriers governments actively support their "national carriers with generous tax and write down (aircraft depriciations)benefits".
3)Middle East airlines don't pay corporate or employee taxes(nor do employees)
4) Taxes in Asia are a lot less then in OZ
5)Most airlines except QF order new types and variations of aircrafts and keep what is working for them( not like QF pinning their hopes on the A380 and the 7 if it ever comes 87),whilst continuing to move old aluminium tubes around the planet (
for QF engineers).
and so on and on. this could be a new book title called "Man & woman continue trying to kill the big roo"
never a dull moment
1) No Asian& Middle East carrier's board and Ceo's are in for the short term to maximise their salaries and golden hand shakes (like all Australian Boards & CEO's).
2) Asian carriers governments actively support their "national carriers with generous tax and write down (aircraft depriciations)benefits".
3)Middle East airlines don't pay corporate or employee taxes(nor do employees)
4) Taxes in Asia are a lot less then in OZ
5)Most airlines except QF order new types and variations of aircrafts and keep what is working for them( not like QF pinning their hopes on the A380 and the 7 if it ever comes 87),whilst continuing to move old aluminium tubes around the planet (
for QF engineers).and so on and on. this could be a new book title called "Man & woman continue trying to kill the big roo"
never a dull moment
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I merely stated the facts
If it is not Asian it is the Middle East who have a high percentage of asian cabin crew.
What I stated is that when one airline is involved in a systemic failure, I don't believe one is going to be better than another.
But hey the cabin service was great
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Product Differentiation
An airline is an airline is an airline.
Differentiating the product...at least in the eyes of the travelling public...is the goal of all airline marketing departments.Unfortunately the perception and the reality rarely coincide
Qantas has differentiated itself by promoting its Australianess and safety record .Australia has become become passe.The safety record aint what it used to be and LCCs have changed the landscape forever.We now have differentiation on price.
Joyce appears to be spending money on the hard product but QF lags behind and will continue to do so for at least for the next two or three years.
An employee needs to be proud of the company that they work for.They need to be proud of the product.
Qantas employees have had little to be proud of for at least the last ten years.Indeed, at Qantas,employees have been seen as a necessary evil.
Asian carriers have exploited their advantage to good effect.Orangputi is a perfect example.The media in Asian countries is very tightly controlled.How often do you see a negative report about Sing Air in the Straits Times ?
Bagging the national carrier in Australia has become a favourite media bloodsport.The arrogance of the QF marketing and media department is largely responsible for this.
Micro managing CC is slowly turning them into atomatons.When Qantas starts treating its employees as an asset rather than a liability the travelling public will see an improvement in service levels.Incidently these service levels are pretty damned good if you believe the company's own research.
This gem from Cabin Services...female flight attendants must now "touch up before they touch down" A famous BA edict of the 70s.Shows you where Qantas management mindset is.The hard product might be ancient but the CC lipstick and name tags are perfect.
Product differentiation....Our lipstick and name tags make Qantas standout from the pack
Time for more new blood at the top AJ
Differentiating the product...at least in the eyes of the travelling public...is the goal of all airline marketing departments.Unfortunately the perception and the reality rarely coincide
Qantas has differentiated itself by promoting its Australianess and safety record .Australia has become become passe.The safety record aint what it used to be and LCCs have changed the landscape forever.We now have differentiation on price.
Joyce appears to be spending money on the hard product but QF lags behind and will continue to do so for at least for the next two or three years.
An employee needs to be proud of the company that they work for.They need to be proud of the product.
Qantas employees have had little to be proud of for at least the last ten years.Indeed, at Qantas,employees have been seen as a necessary evil.
Asian carriers have exploited their advantage to good effect.Orangputi is a perfect example.The media in Asian countries is very tightly controlled.How often do you see a negative report about Sing Air in the Straits Times ?
Bagging the national carrier in Australia has become a favourite media bloodsport.The arrogance of the QF marketing and media department is largely responsible for this.
Micro managing CC is slowly turning them into atomatons.When Qantas starts treating its employees as an asset rather than a liability the travelling public will see an improvement in service levels.Incidently these service levels are pretty damned good if you believe the company's own research.
This gem from Cabin Services...female flight attendants must now "touch up before they touch down" A famous BA edict of the 70s.Shows you where Qantas management mindset is.The hard product might be ancient but the CC lipstick and name tags are perfect.
Product differentiation....Our lipstick and name tags make Qantas standout from the pack
Time for more new blood at the top AJ
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.......a good example of the management we have to put up with is.......our Rosters have been/are delayed due to CSS/CSM KPI -review training.
WHAT THA!
Are these clowns kidding themselves?
Due to the high number of "poor performers"......its time to bring these rogues in for some intensive brainwashing et al.
Lesson #1-Ensure all hosties apply lippy before landing
Lesson#2 -Ensure all crew have name badge on the correct side of their uniform
Need I continue. So some genius discovers that we will have to do another bid run -as we don't have enough Managers.......2 weeks out from Xmas.
Agree- Change has to happen ....& fast. Lets begin with a QCC enema.
WHAT THA!
Are these clowns kidding themselves?
Due to the high number of "poor performers"......its time to bring these rogues in for some intensive brainwashing et al.
Lesson #1-Ensure all hosties apply lippy before landing
Lesson#2 -Ensure all crew have name badge on the correct side of their uniform
Need I continue. So some genius discovers that we will have to do another bid run -as we don't have enough Managers.......2 weeks out from Xmas.
Agree- Change has to happen ....& fast. Lets begin with a QCC enema.