Qantas mainline:Where to from here ?
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Qantas mainline:Where to from here ?
In Letters to the Editor financial review (18.11.2009)was a lament from a Qantas Platinum Frequent Flyer.He explained his concerns about the shabby Qantas Cabins,the aging fleet and his disappointment with the beds on the A380.It was also pointed out that many of the faces he used to see in QF lounges he now saw in Emirates lounges.
The author conclude that Qantas was now seen as a second tier airline
The premium customers that Qantas lost during the WFC have come back but not back to Qantas
The mainline network has shrunk to its minimum and P/C seats are being removed from a number of routes.Joyce admits that Qantas got it wrong with the current configurations.Cost cutting has been ongoing for ten years.
The media has been giving qantas a hammering over its operational safety for over twelve months.
Morale amongst emlpoyees is non existant
If being the worlds best airline is your aim you need to spend money on the hard product.Emirates,Qatar,Etihad and Sing Air are perfect examples.They are perceived as premium carriers.Skytrax website is informative as to who is and who is not a premium airline
Where to for Qantas?
Will it end up being a second tier niche carrier at the bottom of the world.?
Or will it at some stage in the future begin to grow again?
At present the whole operation is under review and CR in some areas is being contemplated.The viablity of the CC off shore bases is under scrutiny as are the domestic bases.
The review should be completed some time early next year.
Roadshows will begin shortly to discuss the results of the recent Staff Engagement survey.
Alan Joyce has certainly got his hands full
The author conclude that Qantas was now seen as a second tier airline
The premium customers that Qantas lost during the WFC have come back but not back to Qantas
The mainline network has shrunk to its minimum and P/C seats are being removed from a number of routes.Joyce admits that Qantas got it wrong with the current configurations.Cost cutting has been ongoing for ten years.
The media has been giving qantas a hammering over its operational safety for over twelve months.
Morale amongst emlpoyees is non existant
If being the worlds best airline is your aim you need to spend money on the hard product.Emirates,Qatar,Etihad and Sing Air are perfect examples.They are perceived as premium carriers.Skytrax website is informative as to who is and who is not a premium airline
Where to for Qantas?
Will it end up being a second tier niche carrier at the bottom of the world.?
Or will it at some stage in the future begin to grow again?
At present the whole operation is under review and CR in some areas is being contemplated.The viablity of the CC off shore bases is under scrutiny as are the domestic bases.
The review should be completed some time early next year.
Roadshows will begin shortly to discuss the results of the recent Staff Engagement survey.
Alan Joyce has certainly got his hands full
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Withering on The Vine
I used to have hopes that Qantas would regain some of its former glory.Those hopes have given way to reality.The emotional bond that many Australians once had with QF has been permanently severed.
The brand has been trashed beyond repair.Put an orange star on all Qantas Group aircraft and put mainline out of its misery
The brand has been trashed beyond repair.Put an orange star on all Qantas Group aircraft and put mainline out of its misery
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EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL EXCEPTIONAL...................
There! After hearing this particular word for the 50th billion time, you are now deem a premium airline!
There! After hearing this particular word for the 50th billion time, you are now deem a premium airline!
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Brett Godrey is wondering the same thing about VB 'mainline' . . .
'Something is wrong': Virgin chief hopes airfares will rise
The Age November 19, 2009
Virgin Blue chief Brett Godfrey says he hopes airfares will return to stronger prices soon.
Addressing the Queensland Media Club on Thursday, Mr Godfrey said airfare prices, particularly international business, had fallen during the global recession.
"At the moment, particularly internationally, it’s (low prices ) not sustainable; there’s no doubt about that," he said.
"When you can get to the US for about $1200, when 15 months ago at this time of year you're were looking at $2800 to $3000, something is wrong.
"Clearly we’d like to see a return sooner rather than later (to pre-recession prices).
"And we will. It’s not that we’ve got too much capacity there. It’s just that the market has fallen off."
He said the market was not getting worse, but a detailed market update would be announced at next week's Virgin AGM.
The Pacific route connecting Australia and the US has gone from being one of the world's most profitable to a loss-making exercise for airlines over the past year.
But recently a Virgin Blue's group public affairs manager, Heather Jeffery, told Traveller that the strategy for its Pacific route airline, V Australia, was not to drive up fares.
It came on the back of analyst predictions that fares on the route would increase after V Australia was given the go-ahead by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for a tie-up with the route's other new player, Delta Air Lines.
Qantas was continuing to have success on its US flights, helped in part by the popularity of its A380 superjumbo service.
Passenger demand for flying on the world's largest airliner was allowing Qantas to charge up to $600 more than its rival on return flights to Los Angeles.
However, Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford recently mirrored Mr Godfrey's comments at the company's annual general meeting in Perth last month. He told shareholders that while the airline had heavy bookings, it was hard to make money with fares discounted as heavily as they were.
AAP with Craig Platt
'Something is wrong': Virgin chief hopes airfares will rise
The Age November 19, 2009
Virgin Blue chief Brett Godfrey says he hopes airfares will return to stronger prices soon.
Addressing the Queensland Media Club on Thursday, Mr Godfrey said airfare prices, particularly international business, had fallen during the global recession.
"At the moment, particularly internationally, it’s (low prices ) not sustainable; there’s no doubt about that," he said.
"When you can get to the US for about $1200, when 15 months ago at this time of year you're were looking at $2800 to $3000, something is wrong.
"Clearly we’d like to see a return sooner rather than later (to pre-recession prices).
"And we will. It’s not that we’ve got too much capacity there. It’s just that the market has fallen off."
He said the market was not getting worse, but a detailed market update would be announced at next week's Virgin AGM.
The Pacific route connecting Australia and the US has gone from being one of the world's most profitable to a loss-making exercise for airlines over the past year.
But recently a Virgin Blue's group public affairs manager, Heather Jeffery, told Traveller that the strategy for its Pacific route airline, V Australia, was not to drive up fares.
It came on the back of analyst predictions that fares on the route would increase after V Australia was given the go-ahead by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for a tie-up with the route's other new player, Delta Air Lines.
Qantas was continuing to have success on its US flights, helped in part by the popularity of its A380 superjumbo service.
Passenger demand for flying on the world's largest airliner was allowing Qantas to charge up to $600 more than its rival on return flights to Los Angeles.
However, Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford recently mirrored Mr Godfrey's comments at the company's annual general meeting in Perth last month. He told shareholders that while the airline had heavy bookings, it was hard to make money with fares discounted as heavily as they were.
AAP with Craig Platt
From my personal experience (from some one who doesn't hate qantas because its qantas) Qantas was an absolute mess when i flew to europe last crissy.
We were late to depart brissy as the scarebus 330 was busted. Had to wait 5 hours for them to get another jet. I had a connection in singapore of course and when I asked the helpful qantas lady about what happens when'if I miss the connection, she was about as friendly and helpful as a dog eating its bone. I was terribly sorry I asked. The cabin crew were not friendly on this leg. I guess i was in economy so I was one of the cattle they were moving across the planet.
The next two flights were fine however, only thing was my entertainment this was stuffed on the way back to singapore. And the perspex stuff on the window was damaged. It appeared someone had bashed it is with a bag or something. It looked shabby and dangerous.
Now this is where is gets to the best part of trip. On the way from singa to brissy i was put into Q's old 747-200/300. I can't remember which one exactly. This thing was an absolute wreck. I thought I was flying with Air Africa. The aircraft was filthy and old. Even the Lino in the bathroom had been pulled up. It was liking going to the only porta loo at a 100 00 person rock party. It whole jet looked absolutely trashed.
My father flew the 767 from sydney to brissy the other day, and he said it was a mess aswell.
So if I have a choice I won't fly with Qantas again. I've flown with etihad and even Lufthansa and have found that to be much much better. My father doesn't want to fly qantas anymore. He says the only reason he flys with them now is because of frequent flyer points, however after flying emirates to Singapore he says he won't fly with anything else.
So if thats the impressions and feelings we have with Q, I don''t think we are the only ones. Shame really.
We were late to depart brissy as the scarebus 330 was busted. Had to wait 5 hours for them to get another jet. I had a connection in singapore of course and when I asked the helpful qantas lady about what happens when'if I miss the connection, she was about as friendly and helpful as a dog eating its bone. I was terribly sorry I asked. The cabin crew were not friendly on this leg. I guess i was in economy so I was one of the cattle they were moving across the planet.
The next two flights were fine however, only thing was my entertainment this was stuffed on the way back to singapore. And the perspex stuff on the window was damaged. It appeared someone had bashed it is with a bag or something. It looked shabby and dangerous.
Now this is where is gets to the best part of trip. On the way from singa to brissy i was put into Q's old 747-200/300. I can't remember which one exactly. This thing was an absolute wreck. I thought I was flying with Air Africa. The aircraft was filthy and old. Even the Lino in the bathroom had been pulled up. It was liking going to the only porta loo at a 100 00 person rock party. It whole jet looked absolutely trashed.
My father flew the 767 from sydney to brissy the other day, and he said it was a mess aswell.
So if I have a choice I won't fly with Qantas again. I've flown with etihad and even Lufthansa and have found that to be much much better. My father doesn't want to fly qantas anymore. He says the only reason he flys with them now is because of frequent flyer points, however after flying emirates to Singapore he says he won't fly with anything else.
So if thats the impressions and feelings we have with Q, I don''t think we are the only ones. Shame really.
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Unfortunately what you've experienced are largely the result of an airline that has been run [for the last 10 years] with one goal and one goal only.
To leverage the very most that management could in the way of performance bonuses for themselves.
It has to be said that in this regard they were spectacularly successful.
As you rightly say.
"Shame really"...........
Whether the reputation of the airline as a premium carrier is salvageable or not, I think, remains to be seen.
To leverage the very most that management could in the way of performance bonuses for themselves.
It has to be said that in this regard they were spectacularly successful.
As you rightly say.
"Shame really"...........
Whether the reputation of the airline as a premium carrier is salvageable or not, I think, remains to be seen.
Sadly i dont think QF will ever regain its great past. It has gone to far down the tubes and become second rate as previous posts testify. Sing Air and Emirates are the carriers of first choice. When senior management stop running the airline for their own benefit (read bonus's, travel benefits and rules) then and only then may things slowly improve.
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Seems to many that the Roo won't be able to again go ahead in leaps and bounds until management can come up with ways to reduce costs other than staffing costs.
IMHO, it will also be necessary to cut employees into the ownership pie and realign executive rem with the fate of the workforce, if there is to be any real chance of pulling off a sustainable revival.
Won't be easy, but hopefully it can be done.
Hippocratic change won’t cut it.
IMHO, it will also be necessary to cut employees into the ownership pie and realign executive rem with the fate of the workforce, if there is to be any real chance of pulling off a sustainable revival.
Won't be easy, but hopefully it can be done.
Hippocratic change won’t cut it.
Unfortunately the O/seas airlines were built on slave labour, QF or even Jetstar for that matter could not compete Globally with Asian and ME carriers. The Offshore CC bases are a crude attempt to compete. The other carriers have excess cash to pay for newer and better equipment, dont have much union power if any so wages can be adjusted with the seasons, this sort of efficiency could never be reached , unless the Australian public support QF 100% fill their aircraft and give the cashflow and jobs in Australia that QF deserves. If QF shrink or fail it is More jobs going offshore , nobody wants that.
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Just a few Questions that need to be answered by Qantas.
What planes do they need in the future and when are they going to place some orders to replace the 747's.
As it looks very unlikely that the 787 will fly this decade or even next decade what areas of the world does Qantas see itself flying too and with what aircraft.
Does Qantas management see the A380 replacing their fleet of 747"s. The 380 is a good aircraft but very inflexible with size and load for most of the destinations Qantas flies to now and seems only able to operate to the USA and Europe.
Recently I did a trip to Buenos Aires with Qantas and would say both flights were as good as any I have experienced with any airline in the world even SA
but my last flight from Los angeles to Melbourne was a total disaster if it wasn't so funny we would have cried all the way. 
I do feel that as the 747's are retired Qantas will gradually become the "Queensland and northern territory air service" with shrinking routes and no passengers.
Let us hope with Jeff gone some smart decisions will be made, it really would be sad to see Australia with so many people flying overseas every day without a national carrier!!!
What planes do they need in the future and when are they going to place some orders to replace the 747's.
As it looks very unlikely that the 787 will fly this decade or even next decade what areas of the world does Qantas see itself flying too and with what aircraft.
Does Qantas management see the A380 replacing their fleet of 747"s. The 380 is a good aircraft but very inflexible with size and load for most of the destinations Qantas flies to now and seems only able to operate to the USA and Europe.
Recently I did a trip to Buenos Aires with Qantas and would say both flights were as good as any I have experienced with any airline in the world even SA
but my last flight from Los angeles to Melbourne was a total disaster if it wasn't so funny we would have cried all the way. I do feel that as the 747's are retired Qantas will gradually become the "Queensland and northern territory air service" with shrinking routes and no passengers.
Let us hope with Jeff gone some smart decisions will be made, it really would be sad to see Australia with so many people flying overseas every day without a national carrier!!!
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Spend Spend Spend
Qantas has $3.5 Billion in cash reserves.It needs to improve the hard product,advertise like crazy and improve morale.Low morale reduces productivity,increases sick leave and attrition.
Grow the network,increase revenue and better spread fixed unit costs
Grow the network,increase revenue and better spread fixed unit costs
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Well all the whingers, knockers , layabouts , bludgers and hopless managers who inhabit parts of Qantas must be happy. The hardworkers in places like the engine shop and such equally glamourous places will be worried to death at the damage being done . When you are all out of very well paid jobs , you may wake up , but then again you won't because someone else is always to blame , it could never be YOU . Could it!
QF mainline are in a difficult position. Australia is a small market at the end of the line and it's not a hub like Dubai, Singapore or Hong Kong. EK, SQ and CX can compete on the SYD - LHR route against QF, and also offer numerous other cities on their networks. Any city in the world can be reached non stop from the Middle East and EK are simply joining up the dots via their home base. Qatar and Etihad are trying to do the same
They have a lower cost base and don't have to worry about unions.
Best hope for mainline is to concentrate on the major routes such as LHR and LAX with new aircraft and an improved product. Stop paying ridiculous bonuses to management and break the union strangle hold ie pay people according to the work they perform rather than the disruption they could cause if they went on strike. Look for efficiencies and get the costs down.
Ryan Air has become bigger than British Airways by focusing on its costs and work practices. QF however need offer a good product as well in order to compete with its 5* competitors on 14 hour flights.
Unless QF do this they will need to find someone prepared to dole out money to make up their losses or face bankrupcy.
Japan Airlines have enough money for about another ten days of operations at the moment, definitely worth watching what happens there. Air India are looking for $BILLION + bail out from the Indian government. Airline accountants through out the world are putting red refills in their pens.
I would love to have worked for a nationalised airline during the 1970s. Good pay, didn't work too hard and job security. Government cash to burn as needed. Got to be realistic though, things have changed.
They have a lower cost base and don't have to worry about unions.
Best hope for mainline is to concentrate on the major routes such as LHR and LAX with new aircraft and an improved product. Stop paying ridiculous bonuses to management and break the union strangle hold ie pay people according to the work they perform rather than the disruption they could cause if they went on strike. Look for efficiencies and get the costs down.
Ryan Air has become bigger than British Airways by focusing on its costs and work practices. QF however need offer a good product as well in order to compete with its 5* competitors on 14 hour flights.
Unless QF do this they will need to find someone prepared to dole out money to make up their losses or face bankrupcy.
Japan Airlines have enough money for about another ten days of operations at the moment, definitely worth watching what happens there. Air India are looking for $BILLION + bail out from the Indian government. Airline accountants through out the world are putting red refills in their pens.
I would love to have worked for a nationalised airline during the 1970s. Good pay, didn't work too hard and job security. Government cash to burn as needed. Got to be realistic though, things have changed.
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Dixon + Union Bashing
The unions in Qantas today are a far cry from what they were in the 70s.
During SARS and 911 dixon asked the Unions for a wage freeze.The Unions agreed.When things got better and the unions asked for a catchup Dixon told them to take a hike.Unions at Qantas understand that the Companys survival is linked with their own.
Unions are not responsible for management cockups that have negatively affected the bottomline profit by millions....wrong aircraft,wrong configuration,EQ failure,blackberry failure,the IFE debacle...the list goes on.
Qantas is in a mess because of poor management not because of over aggressive unions.
Before anyone starts on the LAMES, they were screwed by Dixon and threatened and intimidated into signing out poorly maintained aircraft.They drew the line in the sand for safety.......your safety,my safety and the safety of the travelling public.All they asked for was 5%.Dixon and managment bonuses would have covered that.
Current mangement does not have the resolve,intellect or business acumen to elevate Qantas to the position of well respected premium carrier.The workforce needs to be well resourced and re invigorated with pride and passion for their company instead of being constantly embarrassed by its shortcomings.
The Flying Circus and Apology Airlines are still appropriate names for the national carrier
During SARS and 911 dixon asked the Unions for a wage freeze.The Unions agreed.When things got better and the unions asked for a catchup Dixon told them to take a hike.Unions at Qantas understand that the Companys survival is linked with their own.
Unions are not responsible for management cockups that have negatively affected the bottomline profit by millions....wrong aircraft,wrong configuration,EQ failure,blackberry failure,the IFE debacle...the list goes on.
Qantas is in a mess because of poor management not because of over aggressive unions.
Before anyone starts on the LAMES, they were screwed by Dixon and threatened and intimidated into signing out poorly maintained aircraft.They drew the line in the sand for safety.......your safety,my safety and the safety of the travelling public.All they asked for was 5%.Dixon and managment bonuses would have covered that.
Current mangement does not have the resolve,intellect or business acumen to elevate Qantas to the position of well respected premium carrier.The workforce needs to be well resourced and re invigorated with pride and passion for their company instead of being constantly embarrassed by its shortcomings.
The Flying Circus and Apology Airlines are still appropriate names for the national carrier
Last edited by DEFCON4; 20th Nov 2009 at 01:28.
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Epstein defends Qantas
Fin Review (20/11/2009):Letters to The Editor
Corporate Affairs
Qantas Airways.
Epstein highlights Qantas Commitment to Premium service by pointing out the introduction of the next generation 737-800s and the rolling out of 20 A380s over the next ten years.
Is he kidding?
Ten years?...15 years too late !
737-800s? Wow do Qantas fly 737s to Frankfurt and LAX ?
C'mon David.You are defending the indefensible.
Have you been on a 747-400 to Frankfurt lately?
Bits hanging off the Cabin interior and two toilets blocked off because they were U/S.These are not the hallmarks of a premium carrier.
Get out of 1K and have a look at your product.Its crap !!!
Corporate Affairs
Qantas Airways.
Epstein highlights Qantas Commitment to Premium service by pointing out the introduction of the next generation 737-800s and the rolling out of 20 A380s over the next ten years.
Is he kidding?
Ten years?...15 years too late !
737-800s? Wow do Qantas fly 737s to Frankfurt and LAX ?
C'mon David.You are defending the indefensible.
Have you been on a 747-400 to Frankfurt lately?
Bits hanging off the Cabin interior and two toilets blocked off because they were U/S.These are not the hallmarks of a premium carrier.
Get out of 1K and have a look at your product.Its crap !!!
Last edited by bulstrode; 20th Nov 2009 at 02:34.
To me, Qantas needs a cultural change from within but it may be too big an ask. Competition is popping up left, right and centre and getting their hands dirty. Meanwhile QF are trying to protect what they've got as it slips away.
It must be remembered that those companies that survive the long term aren't necessarily the strongest but those willing to adapt to a changing environment. I don't think the willingness to adapt is there among the rank and file. I hope I'm wrong...
It must be remembered that those companies that survive the long term aren't necessarily the strongest but those willing to adapt to a changing environment. I don't think the willingness to adapt is there among the rank and file. I hope I'm wrong...
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Rank and File Have Embraced Change
Rank and file have embraced change for over 10 years.Those that couldnt adapt have either left or been managed out of the business.
The cultural change needs to come from above.Rank and file as you call it are only as good as they are allowed to be.
There are not enough rank and file and way too many chiefs.Those that are there are way under resourced.
Compare Emirates,Singapore Airlines and Qantas.The first two are in the 21st Century.The third one is in the 19th century and blames everyone for its shortcoming instead of getting on with the job.Therein lies the problem.A management who will not accept responsibility for the mess.The names have changed.The mindset hasnt
The cultural change needs to come from above.Rank and file as you call it are only as good as they are allowed to be.
There are not enough rank and file and way too many chiefs.Those that are there are way under resourced.
Compare Emirates,Singapore Airlines and Qantas.The first two are in the 21st Century.The third one is in the 19th century and blames everyone for its shortcoming instead of getting on with the job.Therein lies the problem.A management who will not accept responsibility for the mess.The names have changed.The mindset hasnt
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National Carrier
Stallboy says: Let us hope with Jeff gone some smart decisions will be made, it really would be sad to see Australia with so many people flying overseas every day without a national carrier!!!
More precisely to your point . . . why will it be "sad to see Australia with so many people flying overseas every day without a national carrier"?
Just idle curiosity really.
Cheers