QF Strike threat may ground planes.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PE's and LAMEs do two different jobs that complement each other.
Just that personally, luckily I have never had to use one.
Another difference too that many may not know, these PEs are able to approve certain modifications and/or repairs to an aircraft that an LAME cannot approve, HOWEVER when the modification or repair has been done to the aircraft ONLY an LAME can certify for it and release the aircraft to service, NOT a PE unless he is also an LAME.
So YES they do complement each other.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
airsupport
As I said (several times) I don't know anything about Qantas, so will NOT comment on your hundreds of airframes.
And I read that you don't work for qantas (several times). Either do I. I guess I'm just exploring why you care to have input on something you really have nothing to do with. And further, you add weight to your posts by boasting your 30+ years experience... In relation to this issue you might aswell have 30 years as check in staff.
Please I'm not having a shot at you, just trying to provide some balance.
And I agree, LAME's work bloody hard, and for too long.
Cheers
And I read that you don't work for qantas (several times). Either do I. I guess I'm just exploring why you care to have input on something you really have nothing to do with. And further, you add weight to your posts by boasting your 30+ years experience... In relation to this issue you might aswell have 30 years as check in staff.
Please I'm not having a shot at you, just trying to provide some balance.
And I agree, LAME's work bloody hard, and for too long.
Cheers
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
Please dont start the lame v degree qualified engineer stuff.
Both are required for the safe ops of an airline, full stop.
The jobs are different and complementary.
The 10% prob wont see the light of day but they are free to campaign as they see fit iaw the law.
It's between their union and the company.What they get paid is none of my business and if they can screw a few bucks out of them good luck to them.
I must add that as a LAME I get tired of fending of the "why are you guys striking again" queries.
Great reporting at work.
Both are required for the safe ops of an airline, full stop.
The jobs are different and complementary.
The 10% prob wont see the light of day but they are free to campaign as they see fit iaw the law.
It's between their union and the company.What they get paid is none of my business and if they can screw a few bucks out of them good luck to them.
I must add that as a LAME I get tired of fending of the "why are you guys striking again" queries.
Great reporting at work.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NO further comments on who does what, who is more needed and/or more overworked just that I see on the news this morning that these PEs at Qantas are taking industrial action this weekend, apparently they are NOT available for duty (call outs etc) from 5pm today until 9am Monday.
just that I see on the news this morning that these PEs at Qantas are taking industrial action this weekend, apparently they are NOT available for duty (call outs etc) from 5pm today until 9am Monday.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will this action on a weekend achieve much though? 
I would not have thought it would affect flight operations just over one weekend, unless their is a sudden spate of accidents, vehicles hitting aircraft etc......
Just curious too, as I said never had the pleasure of working with Qantas, do they have spare aircraft sitting around normally on weekends, this would also help them neutralise any industrial action by these PEs?
I would not have thought it would affect flight operations just over one weekend, unless their is a sudden spate of accidents, vehicles hitting aircraft etc......
Just curious too, as I said never had the pleasure of working with Qantas, do they have spare aircraft sitting around normally on weekends, this would also help them neutralise any industrial action by these PEs?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
airsupport
yes qantas do have spare capacity particularly on weekends.it can evaporate pretty quickly though.
All it needs is for a couple of lightning strikes (common), another cracked hori stab on an 737-800 and a service vehicle to hit an aircraft and capacity is gone and the structures guys will be needed in a hurry.
I dont know how many staffers have CAR approvals but they could find themselves quite busy in the wee hours.
All it needs is for a couple of lightning strikes (common), another cracked hori stab on an 737-800 and a service vehicle to hit an aircraft and capacity is gone and the structures guys will be needed in a hurry.
I dont know how many staffers have CAR approvals but they could find themselves quite busy in the wee hours.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay thanks, I thought a Company like Qantas would have some spare aircraft to call on, I guess they may even plan to have more on standby over the weekend by adjusting their schedules.
According to this news site it will be after hours during next week too.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
QANTAS says industrial action staged by its engineers will not ground aircraft, as a ban on overtime and out-of-hours call-outs comes into effect today.
Qantas' professional engineers will stage industrial action indefinitely to protest working conditions they claim may affect the safe operation of the airline.
The engineers' union, the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia (APESMA), says the move may ground a number of Qantas and Jetstar planes.
Bans on overtime and out-of-hours call-outs will commence at 5pm (AEDT) on today and last until 9am on Monday, the union says.
The action will re-commence on Monday at 5pm and will last until Tuesday at 8am and continue on the same daily pattern indefinitely.
Qantas said it had contingency plans in place.
"There will not be any disruption to our operations and I can assure customers that they can travel with confidence," Qantas corporate affairs manager David Epstein said in a statement today.
"Aircraft will not be grounded and safety will, as always, remain our top priority."
However, APESMA director Catherine Bolger said the industrial action would cause disruption to services.
"The industrial action may ... result in some Qantas and Jetstar planes not being allowed to fly, causing disruptions," Ms Bolger said.
Mr Bolger said all the professional engineers were asking for is proper recognition of their role.
"They also want management to address what is a serious issue of fatigue caused by long hours and after-work call-outs."
Qantas employs about 190 professional engineers in an workforce of 5,500 people.
The professional engineers form a small part of the airline's engineering workforce but must sign off on any significant maintenance work before planes are allowed to fly.
Ms Bolger said some professional engineers have been called to address complex issues with less than five hours sleep since their last shift.
A Qantas spokeswoman said the thrust of the enterprise bargaining agreement (EBA) negotiations has been about wages.
The union wants a 30 per cent increase over three years, she said, which Qantas has deemed "completely unreasonable".
According to this news site it will be after hours during next week too.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
QANTAS says industrial action staged by its engineers will not ground aircraft, as a ban on overtime and out-of-hours call-outs comes into effect today.
Qantas' professional engineers will stage industrial action indefinitely to protest working conditions they claim may affect the safe operation of the airline.
The engineers' union, the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia (APESMA), says the move may ground a number of Qantas and Jetstar planes.
Bans on overtime and out-of-hours call-outs will commence at 5pm (AEDT) on today and last until 9am on Monday, the union says.
The action will re-commence on Monday at 5pm and will last until Tuesday at 8am and continue on the same daily pattern indefinitely.
Qantas said it had contingency plans in place.
"There will not be any disruption to our operations and I can assure customers that they can travel with confidence," Qantas corporate affairs manager David Epstein said in a statement today.
"Aircraft will not be grounded and safety will, as always, remain our top priority."
However, APESMA director Catherine Bolger said the industrial action would cause disruption to services.
"The industrial action may ... result in some Qantas and Jetstar planes not being allowed to fly, causing disruptions," Ms Bolger said.
Mr Bolger said all the professional engineers were asking for is proper recognition of their role.
"They also want management to address what is a serious issue of fatigue caused by long hours and after-work call-outs."
Qantas employs about 190 professional engineers in an workforce of 5,500 people.
The professional engineers form a small part of the airline's engineering workforce but must sign off on any significant maintenance work before planes are allowed to fly.
Ms Bolger said some professional engineers have been called to address complex issues with less than five hours sleep since their last shift.
A Qantas spokeswoman said the thrust of the enterprise bargaining agreement (EBA) negotiations has been about wages.
The union wants a 30 per cent increase over three years, she said, which Qantas has deemed "completely unreasonable".
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These actions may not cause disruptions this weekend or next, but it will eventually. Imagine if on a Saturday flight into Queenstown a B737-800 is hit by ground equip, who is going to authourise a fix or flight. It won't be back in Aust for both the Saturday and Sunday, probably wouldn't be back Monday either. By the time the aircraft is repaired it will have probably been out of service for 4-5 days. Yet according to management this sort of thing will have no effect on operations.
In this scenario you could change the aircraft for a B744er in SFO or EZE and a similar thing would happen. So you can see the potential for some very long delays for pax and having the aircraft out of service.
In this scenario you could change the aircraft for a B744er in SFO or EZE and a similar thing would happen. So you can see the potential for some very long delays for pax and having the aircraft out of service.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These actions may not cause disruptions this weekend or next, but it will eventually. Imagine if on a Saturday flight into Queenstown a B737-800 is hit by ground equip, who is going to authourise a fix or flight. It won't be back in Aust for both the Saturday and Sunday, probably wouldn't be back Monday either. By the time the aircraft is repaired it will have probably been out of service for 4-5 days. Yet according to management this sort of thing will have no effect on operations.
In this scenario you could change the aircraft for a B744er in SFO or EZE and a similar thing would happen. So you can see the potential for some very long delays for pax and having the aircraft out of service.
In this scenario you could change the aircraft for a B744er in SFO or EZE and a similar thing would happen. So you can see the potential for some very long delays for pax and having the aircraft out of service.
The problem is, management don't want to be seen as giving in to the worker, but are prepared to be the cause of a great deal of waste of money, and bring the company and the party seeking a pay rise into disrepute, whilst they maintain their bonuses and pay cheques.
I would like to think I can stuff up like a manager, and get a nice bonus for my efforts.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again, do NOT know how Qantas operate, just again curious after the last 2 posts.
You are speaking of possible incidents in NZ and the USA happening to Qantas aircraft.
In these cases do Qantas have CASA approved PEs they can use in these (and other) Countries? OR do the ONLY PEs that approve anything on a Qantas aircraft work for Qantas in Sydney???
I mean also ''normally'', it may make a difference while there is industrial action in place.
You are speaking of possible incidents in NZ and the USA happening to Qantas aircraft.
In these cases do Qantas have CASA approved PEs they can use in these (and other) Countries? OR do the ONLY PEs that approve anything on a Qantas aircraft work for Qantas in Sydney???
I mean also ''normally'', it may make a difference while there is industrial action in place.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The degree engineers are primarily based in Sydney, with some also in Melbourne and Brisbane. So if an Engineering Authority is required for a damaged aircraft in LAX, it is the Sydney engineer who would authorise the EA.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up left - Down right
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a simple example.
A toilet light breaks, no parts to fix it on station, the light needs to be isolated for safety by disconnection or C/B pulled. Isolation procedure does not exist in MM or DDG, an Authority to isolate is required from the said Professional Engineer in Sydney or the A/C will sit on the ground until a spare part is flow to the station and fitted to the A/C or until day shift Monday - Friday when PE is on duty. = big delay = very unhappy customers.
A toilet light breaks, no parts to fix it on station, the light needs to be isolated for safety by disconnection or C/B pulled. Isolation procedure does not exist in MM or DDG, an Authority to isolate is required from the said Professional Engineer in Sydney or the A/C will sit on the ground until a spare part is flow to the station and fitted to the A/C or until day shift Monday - Friday when PE is on duty. = big delay = very unhappy customers.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, thanks.
I didn't think they would have their own Emloyee PEs based all over the World, but I thought they may use PEs (who hold a CASA Approval) working for Air NZ, United, BA etc etc...........
I didn't think they would have their own Emloyee PEs based all over the World, but I thought they may use PEs (who hold a CASA Approval) working for Air NZ, United, BA etc etc...........
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A toilet light breaks, no parts to fix it on station, the light needs to be isolated for safety by disconnection or C/B pulled. Isolation procedure does not exist in MM or DDG, an Authority to isolate is required from the said Professional Engineer in Sydney
No wonder things get complicated at Qantas, if the LAME certifying for the aircraft needs the permission of a PE on the other side of the World to pull a C/B.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up left - Down right
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can't be serious. 
(and I do not remember seeing using a stapler on EEL in the AMM or DDG)
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 14th Nov 2009 at 03:52.
