Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

The Men Who Killed Qantas

Old 1st Nov 2009, 10:12
  #41 (permalink)  
The Reverend
 
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As an ex QF employee in the sixties, based in Singapore; two very serious incidents occurred that I can not find any reference to. The first one involving a 707 night landing and go around on 02 at Paya Lebar Singapore, resulted in a rescue team of QF engineers patching up a severely damaged airframe due to a hard touch down on the nose gear. The aircraft was ferried back eventually to Sydney unpressurized for permanent repairs. The second was a jet upset over India en route to Singapore where a captain followed a toppling AH, disengaged the AP and and severely stressed the fuselage in an attempt to rectify a false attitude indication. I haven't read the book, nor am I inclined to do so but I'm certain these incidents remain unrecorded by the authors who may not have been borne yet in 1965.
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Old 1st Nov 2009, 11:16
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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.....one involving a 707 night landing and go around on 02 at Paya Lebar Singapore, resulted in a rescue team of QF engineers patching up a severely damaged airframe due to a hard touch down on the nose gear. The aircraft was ferried back eventually to Sydney unpressurized for permanent repairs..... I haven't read the book, nor am I inclined to do so but I'm certain these incidents remain unrecorded by the authors who may not have been borne yet in 1965.
The aircraft you talk about was VH-EBK (707-138B) on 23 December 1964. This was caused by an error of judgement by both pilots at the point of initial touchdown which caused the aircraft to bounce, incorrect technique was used by the captain in the attempts to reland the aircraft, which placed it in a nose-down attitude causing the nosewheel to strike the runway before the main wheels. Nil injuries or fatalities, but I'm sure a damaged pride nonetheless.

One doesn't have to be born at a time an event takes place, so long as the event is recorded and it is known where to find such information years down the track. How many of us are old enough to remember WW1 or WW2?
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Old 1st Nov 2009, 15:04
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Hoofharted said...
I knew it wouldn't take long for some QF types to start deriding this book, after all, your the best in the universe aren't you? You really gotta wonder just how far some of you people can get your heads up your own arse
Get off you high horse buddy, some of us "QF types" actually applaud the launch of this book. I'd suggest that it is YOU who needs to remove ones head from their anus.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 00:30
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Well last time I looked Qantas was still flying, infact one flew over my head today...so what is the problem, all you Q types are getting paid, thats all that matters, I would suggest most of the guys accused of killing Q were really involved in up to their armpits in killing Ansett.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 02:23
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Whoops another thread drift alert !!!

RK wrote........

I would suggest most of the guys accused of killing Q were really involved in up to their armpits in killing Ansett.
And nothing to do with mis-management by Ansett executives, and those who couldn't even keep tabs on aircraft servicing schedules, and the bastardization of the airline by Air New Zealand?
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 04:19
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Whoops another thread drift alert !!!

RK wrote........


Quote:
I would suggest most of the guys accused of killing Q were really involved in up to their armpits in killing Ansett.
And nothing to do with mis-management by Ansett executives, and those who couldn't even keep tabs on aircraft servicing schedules, and the bastardization of the airline by Air New Zealand?
All of the above are true, but there was one John Vincent of QF engineering who went to Ansett before its demise, and then slinked his way back to QF after the demise of AN. Just some food for thought.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 05:14
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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When carbon brakes appeared on the scene, QF was one of the first to start stuffing around with reverse thrust, and started to include in the training their new flight procedures, all in the name of saving a buck. Us old bastards were appalled, and at least 6 very senior QF Captains told them to stick it up their kyber pass, leaving no doubt that they would be ignoring the practice. I witnessed a very heated meeting at the AIPA over this very issue.QFs luck held out once again over the BKK "incident" as QF like to call it, I don't blame the crew, I blame the training, and mostly I blame the fact that until QF get some REAL technical people up there in "Wally World" (as was always the practice in the "good ol days") instead of bean counters, hangers on, and the CEOs good looking, but backward nephew who takes care of everything beginning with R eg: rubber bands etc. nothing is going to change. The old ways are boring to you young blokes but they WORKED, pilots and engineers had a big say in the everyday running of the airline, bean counters job was to keep the joint solvent, and somehow it worked. TAA and Ansett were,until taken over by the beancounters, excellent airlines in their own right, another era, yes, different costings, yes, but nothing changes the fact we are dealing in Aircraft here not jam tin lables, and a bloke who does not know a APU from a camels arse should stick to beancounting, and pilots and engineers should be heavily involved in the running (and costing) of the technical side of the airline, in theory this should produce a solvent and safe airline (and God forbid a happy one). rant over.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 08:33
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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TG,

Have a read of Normalisation of Deviance..The challenger launch decision.
It is a scary read as commerical pressures weaved their way through every facet of the operation of the STS at NASA.

The result an accident.
Accountants ought be kept away from anything operational. An airliner is not a widget, it carries many people. Look at the board of Qantas and even the "senior management" team, not an operational person amongst them..

Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts, can be counted..Albert Einstein
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 20:52
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I find it very

funny that in the Qf teminals domesticially you cant get the book in the stores as the store owners have been told they cant display them.in the bookstore near the Virgin checkin (tulla) they have build a large dsiplay of the man that killed qantas
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 21:37
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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"funny that in the Qf teminals domesticially you cant get the book in the stores "


This is not funny and definitely not surprising. The QF Concessions team would of "muscled" the outlets.

DISPLAY ZE BOOK AND YOU ARE OUTZIE ON YOUR ARZIE

Free Speech...... you have to love it
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Old 5th Nov 2009, 04:20
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Read The Book

The book is basically a number of newspaper reports cobbled together.
It debunks a few myths and alludes to management screw ups and poor behaviour but little else.
The mployees hold the place together.Nothing new.
Qantas will never be the airline it once was.
Sir hudson Fysh must be turning in his grave
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Old 5th Nov 2009, 08:45
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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The word from CAPA is:
Qantas operates arguably the most successful organically developed dual brand airline model in the world. Its Jetstar low cost subsidiary has effectively insulated it from domestic LCC competition, while allowing it to complement the full service airline on marginal international routes and provide a platform for expansion within Asia.


But Qantas itself is an airline with little future as an international full service airline at the end of the line in a world where it is helpless to compete with the market and pricing power of efficient Middle East and Asian intermediate airlines able to pick the eyes out of its European and Asian services.
Bet they haven't flow Dragon Air
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Old 5th Nov 2009, 10:40
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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yes pack...rat

well i said i would not put pen to paper again ....but ...packrat you are correct i have just flicked thru this book,and its just that a collection of stories put together in book form ...nice read with a lot of truth and quite funny in some sections and a few names from the past....if you look hard you will see my handles name ...but you will have to been around in the 70's in servicing to remember it ....a hint his first name was bob....thats all
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Old 6th Nov 2009, 00:05
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Mods, pardon my paranoia, just wondering why my post was removed.
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Old 7th Nov 2009, 22:14
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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The Best CEO

Of the modern era John Menadue was most likely the best Qantas CEO.
He doesnt get a mention in this book
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Old 9th Nov 2009, 01:02
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Memadue , almost bankrupted the company , loved the glory , but spent like a drunken sailor ( or ie that pilot ) .
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Old 10th Nov 2009, 07:18
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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to tg

Go teresa green, both barrels and right on target!
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Old 11th Nov 2009, 02:20
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Yates, was a good Boss, as was Capt. Bert Richie, yes guys a CAPTAIN ran the show and ran it well, also Capt. Frank Ball, who ran TAA. This was the era the Boss told the beancounters what was required to run a safe airline, and can well recall the time when asked to come in to do a compass swing (remember those, you ol bastards out there) and witnessed a beancounter trying to explain to Capt Ball, even at the engineers request, a spar part had not been ordered for a F27. It was pure theatre, old Ball left up and down on the same spot, rage spouting from every opening, and the beancounter was left in no doubt when a engineer ordered a part it was to be delivered, so different now, hey guys? It seems they have the donkey by the tail, instead of the technical side of the airline, requesting funds to run the airline in a safe, and cost effective way, the beancounters are telling the very same people they must save money and cut corners, and hope for the same outcome!a disgrace.
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Old 11th Nov 2009, 02:25
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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tg , keep dreaming or wake up its 2009
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Old 6th Jan 2010, 01:14
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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I understand stocks are now very low. If anyone still wants a copy I suggest you move fast.
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