Qantas on track to become the worst airline...
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I will try to be unbiased, but here is my list from best to worst of the carriers I have traveled with over the last 24 months (Class traveled as marked)...
Japan Airlines J (BNE-NRT-BNE)
Qantas J (BNE-HKG-BNE)
Eva Air J (BNE-TPE.... I haven't come home yet!)
Cathay Y (HKG-LHR, HKG-NGO)
Qantas Y (LHR-HKG)
Dragon Air Y (HKG-KHH-HKG)
Jetstar (BNE-AVV)
Virgin Blue (BNE-SYD)
British Airways Y (HKG-LHR)
I have friends and relatives who have traveled with Etihad who have said they will never travel with them again.
Qantas may not be Singapore airlines when it comes to service, but there is a loooong way to go before they hit the bottom.
It seems there are some Aussies who like to bash anything Australian.... Qantas, Holden etc.
Japan Airlines J (BNE-NRT-BNE)
Qantas J (BNE-HKG-BNE)
Eva Air J (BNE-TPE.... I haven't come home yet!)
Cathay Y (HKG-LHR, HKG-NGO)
Qantas Y (LHR-HKG)
Dragon Air Y (HKG-KHH-HKG)
Jetstar (BNE-AVV)
Virgin Blue (BNE-SYD)
British Airways Y (HKG-LHR)
I have friends and relatives who have traveled with Etihad who have said they will never travel with them again.
Qantas may not be Singapore airlines when it comes to service, but there is a loooong way to go before they hit the bottom.
It seems there are some Aussies who like to bash anything Australian.... Qantas, Holden etc.
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Expectation Not Met
Qantas and its marketing machine create a customer expectation.
The reality is that the resources are not made available by Qantas to meet that expectation.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.
As far as CC helping with stowage of luggage..if its too heavy for the customer its too heavy for the flight attendant.80% of QF LH CC are women who are not built like front row forwards.Many a flight attendant has had their career cut short by a back injury or rotor cuff damage by stowing baggage in over head lockers.
A 40kg underwater camera grounded a colleague with a back injury for six months.While off he was harassed by his CC TM .
Get the Cabin Service management team to change their attitude toward CC injuries and assistance with luggage stowage will improve.
CC are not lazy but are mindful of consequences.
Teresa Green are you too old and feeble to carry your wife's carry on luggage?
The reality is that the resources are not made available by Qantas to meet that expectation.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.
As far as CC helping with stowage of luggage..if its too heavy for the customer its too heavy for the flight attendant.80% of QF LH CC are women who are not built like front row forwards.Many a flight attendant has had their career cut short by a back injury or rotor cuff damage by stowing baggage in over head lockers.
A 40kg underwater camera grounded a colleague with a back injury for six months.While off he was harassed by his CC TM .
Get the Cabin Service management team to change their attitude toward CC injuries and assistance with luggage stowage will improve.
CC are not lazy but are mindful of consequences.
Teresa Green are you too old and feeble to carry your wife's carry on luggage?
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The reality is that the resources are not made available by Qantas to meet that expectation.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.
Tug, Keg, Lamax... I'm know this is a rumour network and sometimes facts and common sense tend to float to the bottom.
Did you know that CC are subject to OH&S requirements as well as Civil Aviation Regulations? Hard to believe isn't it!!!?
Lets take the emotion out of the argument for a moment and take a look at a fact;
Company OH&S states clearly that I am NOT ALLOWED to handle pax baggage. By doing so, I am breaching company protocol and therefore technically voiding any recourse to medical insurance etc etc....
Civil Aviation Regulations may have prevented the FA from leaving the vicinity of his/her door at the time? But, of course, we don't have all of the facts, so we'll just have to speculate until TG gives us some clarification.
The very fact that I still assist with pax baggage regardless suggests I'm either completely foolhardy or as is really the case, attempt to bridge the gap between reality and expectations as best I can with the time and resources available to me at the time.
Many/most FA's, at least at my airline, do their best to assist where possible.
TG, I find it terribly difficult to believe that this FA you speak of stood 'idly by' while all of this was going on.
I am really looking forward to hearing;
A) What you were doing while all of this was going on (I can only assume that you were present?)?
B) Why did you or your wife not politely request assistance (or at least ask politely why none could be offered?)?
Overall TG, what I find most disappointing about your post is that you were travelling on a staff ticket, yet instead of doing everything in your power to assist at the time, you seem to stew about the situation and then vent at the usual soft target (and a colleague at that) on an anonymous forum.
Why bother?
DEFCON4 has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sadly, there will always be those people who choose not to see through the bull****.
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Overall.. If you cant lift it yourself above shoulder height.... then it should be in the cargo hold..... simple!!
Checkin staff should also be weighing carryon luggage to make sure these shrewd passengers are not pulling a fast one to escape paying excess luggage charges by putting their heavy crap in their hand luggage.
Ive been denied a boarding pass in the past because the aircaft was on its max brakes release weight..... so they say.
How many of these unweighed bags would have been over the load control calculated weight??
It does not take a lot to damage yourself picking up something that looks "light" to find its a 15kg piece of hand luggage
Im not an F/A.... just seen it many times before and its my 2 bob worth
Checkin staff should also be weighing carryon luggage to make sure these shrewd passengers are not pulling a fast one to escape paying excess luggage charges by putting their heavy crap in their hand luggage.
Ive been denied a boarding pass in the past because the aircaft was on its max brakes release weight..... so they say.
How many of these unweighed bags would have been over the load control calculated weight??
It does not take a lot to damage yourself picking up something that looks "light" to find its a 15kg piece of hand luggage
Im not an F/A.... just seen it many times before and its my 2 bob worth
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There are a couple of points worth mentioning here.
The first is that technically f/a's are not supposed to leave their door during boarding.The number of cabin crew have been reduced over the last few years and if something happens how could you possibly get back to your door to carry out an evacuation?
The service department have a different idea of what is important to what our primary role really is.
The second thing is that if someone is that short that they cannot reach the overhead lockers why didn't they ask for help?
Doesn't take much to politely ask someone especially if they have flown before and know that they will have difficulty reaching the locker.
The lady in question must be very short because how do the f/a's on some of the Asian carriers manage?
The first is that technically f/a's are not supposed to leave their door during boarding.The number of cabin crew have been reduced over the last few years and if something happens how could you possibly get back to your door to carry out an evacuation?
The service department have a different idea of what is important to what our primary role really is.
The second thing is that if someone is that short that they cannot reach the overhead lockers why didn't they ask for help?
Doesn't take much to politely ask someone especially if they have flown before and know that they will have difficulty reaching the locker.
The lady in question must be very short because how do the f/a's on some of the Asian carriers manage?
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things are going downhill quickly now. i was wondering why the bars on board 747's weren't chilled when boarding the flight in SIN (the flight originated in LHR). my manager informed me yesterday that QF no longer pay for dry ice to be loaded in bar cart tops. now these bar carts are loaded in LHR, they are not attached to chilled air, dry ice is not loaded so 15 or 16 hours after QF10 leaves SIN to MEL you have lovely warm beer, white wine and soft drinks. i imagine that the same thing is happening on flights via BKK and HKG as well. next time you get a warm, not chilled, beer or whatever just remember that someone who made this decision has increased their bonus! don't blame the crew
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Orangputi Off Thread
The remark about boilers is a cliche made a poster who is himself a cliche.
Qantas Executive Group Manager Cabin Services is convinced QF is the worlds best airline.In her world it might be but in reality...the real world...it definitely is not.Underesourced and expensive Qantas continually falls short of customer expectations.Wake up Lesley the customers are voting with their feet and flying with other carriers who spend sufficiently to ensure a superior product
Qantas Executive Group Manager Cabin Services is convinced QF is the worlds best airline.In her world it might be but in reality...the real world...it definitely is not.Underesourced and expensive Qantas continually falls short of customer expectations.Wake up Lesley the customers are voting with their feet and flying with other carriers who spend sufficiently to ensure a superior product
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Perhaps because I was stuck behind a mother trying to board with 3 little kids, I assisted her as she struggled with kids, hand luggage, etc. As I turned into J class my wife was struggling to get a perfectly legal cabin bag into the overhead locker, as stated before she is of small statue, and two female cabin crew members simply stood and watched. I don't care what your union says or what you think is to hard, I will repeat for the last time , its called, manners, consideration, grace, the cabin crew of my era from the 60s to the 90s would have thought nothing of assisting, but the "all about me" has permeated the airlines bigtime and it shows, it is simply the way of the world and you people and your thinking are the way of the future. "its not my job" charming.
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midway7081
Well thats what happens when a Qantas guts their maintenance crews here in Australia then work is done overseas by second rate companies.
I use to fly Qantas. I now catch the train.
I use to fly Qantas. I now catch the train.
DEFCON4 & hadagutfull
How old are you both? I bet you wouldn’t be mouthing off such rubbish when you are in your 70’s or 80’s, riddled with arthritis and had several broken collar bones.
I work for an Asian carrier and I would be embarrassed if our girls didn’t help some passengers put their carry-on luggage in the overhead locker. It’s just plain manners. Something that is becoming noticeably absent in this increasingly selfish nanny state called Australia.
If overweight cabbin baggage is a problem and we know it sometimes is, pressure should be place on the airlines and the regulators to have all carry on baggage weighed at check in.
How old are you both? I bet you wouldn’t be mouthing off such rubbish when you are in your 70’s or 80’s, riddled with arthritis and had several broken collar bones.
I work for an Asian carrier and I would be embarrassed if our girls didn’t help some passengers put their carry-on luggage in the overhead locker. It’s just plain manners. Something that is becoming noticeably absent in this increasingly selfish nanny state called Australia.
If overweight cabbin baggage is a problem and we know it sometimes is, pressure should be place on the airlines and the regulators to have all carry on baggage weighed at check in.
Last edited by 404 Titan; 10th Sep 2009 at 15:52.
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404 titan Thread Drift
My last word on this.
Company OH and S policy determines what I can and cant do regarding carry on luggage and its stowage.
That has already been made clear to you
I have a family that I support through my income.Injuring myself at work means time off from work and a reduced income.Others have been "managed out of the business"through enduring rotor cuff or back injury.I do not intend to join their ranks and jeopardise my family's financial security.
Customers load up their carry on baggage to avoid paying an excess.I am very attentive to women with children and the elderly when it comes to baggage assistance.
Injury to personnel is also part of my KPIs.Part of my responsibilty is to limit potential injury to my crew and therefore assist in minimizing lost time through injury.
Passenger carry on is their responsiblity.Crew will assist so long as it is not to their own physical detriment.
Next time when of his girls injures herself lifting heavy in cabin baggage it would be hoped Titan 404 contibrutes 10% of his salary while she is off work.
Company OH and S policy determines what I can and cant do regarding carry on luggage and its stowage.
That has already been made clear to you
I have a family that I support through my income.Injuring myself at work means time off from work and a reduced income.Others have been "managed out of the business"through enduring rotor cuff or back injury.I do not intend to join their ranks and jeopardise my family's financial security.
Customers load up their carry on baggage to avoid paying an excess.I am very attentive to women with children and the elderly when it comes to baggage assistance.
Injury to personnel is also part of my KPIs.Part of my responsibilty is to limit potential injury to my crew and therefore assist in minimizing lost time through injury.
Passenger carry on is their responsiblity.Crew will assist so long as it is not to their own physical detriment.
Next time when of his girls injures herself lifting heavy in cabin baggage it would be hoped Titan 404 contibrutes 10% of his salary while she is off work.
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This has got slightly out of hand and the basics forgotten...
It has been asked how did TG know his wife was struggling when he wasn't there?
If TG's wife is short and has problem reaching the overhead locker why did she not ask someone for help?
Surely she must have flown before if she is married to a pilot and would have known that she would have problems.It's not as if this was her first flight.TG must have also known that she would have problems and did he say wait till I get there and I will help or ask someone for help.
The OH&S aspect has been mentioned but conveniently ignored by some here as well....how can cabin crew walk up to a pax and say.."before I help you can you prove to me that your bag weighs no more than the allowable limit"....
C'Mon guys how many pax would admit their bag is over the limit?
The next thing you know is that you've injured yourself and the job is at risk because you have trued to help someone else...it has happened to so many cabin crew.
For years the pilots have used cabin crew to get everything from better allowances to the new legislation regarding cockpit access.
I agree with the challenge to the legislation and it's overturning but why did he suggest it would only be a F/A who might leave the door opened inadvertently?......it wouldn't be one of the tech crew would it...no.....tech crew never make mistakes do they?
TG's example sounds more to me as just another example of anti cabin crew attitude...
If TG's wife cannot reach the overhead locker then do the obvious..
Ask for help instead of bagging cabin crew yet again....
It has been asked how did TG know his wife was struggling when he wasn't there?
If TG's wife is short and has problem reaching the overhead locker why did she not ask someone for help?
Surely she must have flown before if she is married to a pilot and would have known that she would have problems.It's not as if this was her first flight.TG must have also known that she would have problems and did he say wait till I get there and I will help or ask someone for help.
The OH&S aspect has been mentioned but conveniently ignored by some here as well....how can cabin crew walk up to a pax and say.."before I help you can you prove to me that your bag weighs no more than the allowable limit"....
C'Mon guys how many pax would admit their bag is over the limit?
The next thing you know is that you've injured yourself and the job is at risk because you have trued to help someone else...it has happened to so many cabin crew.
For years the pilots have used cabin crew to get everything from better allowances to the new legislation regarding cockpit access.
AIPA president Barry Jackson said the Senate had disallowed a flawed piece of legislation about which pilots were not consulted.
He said the strict liability meant that a captain would be responsible if a flight attendant inadvertently left a cockpit door unlocked.
He said the strict liability meant that a captain would be responsible if a flight attendant inadvertently left a cockpit door unlocked.
TG's example sounds more to me as just another example of anti cabin crew attitude...
If TG's wife cannot reach the overhead locker then do the obvious..
Ask for help instead of bagging cabin crew yet again....
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What a tragic thread drift.
Mrs Green can not be expected to lift her own bag into the locker on her own, that's true.
She should know just to wait with her bag on or near her seat until her husband arrives or until she has a chance to approach the cabin staff for assistance if they have not noticed her situation already.
That assistance could be to stow the bag somewhere where she can reach.
There is no hurry, after all there were still passengers boarding which was perhaps a reason why the cabin staff were waiting before assisting Mrs Green.
Mrs Green put other people in a difficult position by trying to do something that she knew she would not be capable of.
I'm sure the staff would have assisted if approached, like you say it is common decency.(not to mention Emirates business class service!)
Mrs Green can not be expected to lift her own bag into the locker on her own, that's true.
She should know just to wait with her bag on or near her seat until her husband arrives or until she has a chance to approach the cabin staff for assistance if they have not noticed her situation already.
That assistance could be to stow the bag somewhere where she can reach.
There is no hurry, after all there were still passengers boarding which was perhaps a reason why the cabin staff were waiting before assisting Mrs Green.
Mrs Green put other people in a difficult position by trying to do something that she knew she would not be capable of.
I'm sure the staff would have assisted if approached, like you say it is common decency.(not to mention Emirates business class service!)
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Why This Happens
Lack of resources.ie crew in the cabin
Fear of injury and consequent harrassment from CCTM
Loss of employment through injury.
Qantas OH and S corporate policy.
These and other reasons are why qantas is ontrack to become the worlds worst legacy carrier
Fear of injury and consequent harrassment from CCTM
Loss of employment through injury.
Qantas OH and S corporate policy.
These and other reasons are why qantas is ontrack to become the worlds worst legacy carrier
DEFCON4
OH&S issues in Aus give me the sh**s. Blood sucking leaches on society that are an industry in themselves that are dragging Aus down the toilet. If only government got off peoples backs and would allow them to use common sense and got the regulator to mandate the weighing of checked bags at check in or at the boarding gate we wouldn’t be talking about this rubbish. The sooner people opened their eyes and started to realise that Australia has become a nanny state because of over governance the better. Common sense is what should be expected, common sense.
Why should I have to contribute one cent to someone that injures themself at work. They have only injured themself because the cheap skate company doesn't enforce their own regs regarding carry on bags. Your union should be fighting this by taking legal action against the company for negligence. It’s amazing what a little legal action will do to focus your manager’s attention.
OH&S issues in Aus give me the sh**s. Blood sucking leaches on society that are an industry in themselves that are dragging Aus down the toilet. If only government got off peoples backs and would allow them to use common sense and got the regulator to mandate the weighing of checked bags at check in or at the boarding gate we wouldn’t be talking about this rubbish. The sooner people opened their eyes and started to realise that Australia has become a nanny state because of over governance the better. Common sense is what should be expected, common sense.
Why should I have to contribute one cent to someone that injures themself at work. They have only injured themself because the cheap skate company doesn't enforce their own regs regarding carry on bags. Your union should be fighting this by taking legal action against the company for negligence. It’s amazing what a little legal action will do to focus your manager’s attention.
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I remember a CSM who took some initiative and brought a small spring loaded device normally used to weight fish.
If a bag looked heavy as it was carried on during boarding he would ask to weigh it.He did this out of frustration with ground staff not enforcing the regs.
Over 90% of the bags he weighed were over the max allowable weight.
This was going fine until a FF in J/C took exception to being shown that his bag was vastly over weight.
The result as you might have guessed was the CSM being called into the office and told not to do that again.They were not interested in the slightest that the bags were overweight.I would have thought they would issue all CSM's with the same device but that would upset our precious FF's.
Then some pilots here wonder why we are reluctant to lift passengers bags.You can have your career cut short by trying to help and all teresa green can talk about is
I remember talking to an American airlines F/A in a customs queue and asked what their policy was with carry on baggage.
She replied "If they pack it they stack it?
If a bag looked heavy as it was carried on during boarding he would ask to weigh it.He did this out of frustration with ground staff not enforcing the regs.
Over 90% of the bags he weighed were over the max allowable weight.
This was going fine until a FF in J/C took exception to being shown that his bag was vastly over weight.
The result as you might have guessed was the CSM being called into the office and told not to do that again.They were not interested in the slightest that the bags were overweight.I would have thought they would issue all CSM's with the same device but that would upset our precious FF's.
Then some pilots here wonder why we are reluctant to lift passengers bags.You can have your career cut short by trying to help and all teresa green can talk about is
manners, consideration, grace
She replied "If they pack it they stack it?