What's the real truth behind Jet Connect?
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As a mate of mine on AIPA said, the A380 and those lucky enough to be on it when the music stops will become the "A scale" in Qantas and everyone else ???????
Funny how a number of the present AIPA exec are A380 Captains.
I'm sure they will show some moral fibre and not feather their own nest.
Just don't mention EBA8 nor the Qantas Sale Act case I've been told.
Funny how a number of the present AIPA exec are A380 Captains.
I'm sure they will show some moral fibre and not feather their own nest.
Just don't mention EBA8 nor the Qantas Sale Act case I've been told.
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Referring to Blow.n.gaskets previous post. Blow is an appropriate name. Sounds like your on it. Are you serious? Qantas tests etc, N.A.S.A. psych tests would be a lot more thorough than the Q's and one of their mob went bonkers a few years back. Mainline have had their share of stuffups in the past too, rwy overruns etc. I suspect if Q mainline is like many airlines around the world it has a varying range of standards and experience. Some pilots within your ranks better than others. I suspect some individuals hide behind the "process" because they are insecure or to cover for a lack of ability. Then again I'm not a psychologist.
Nunc est bibendum
That's the point that blown is making though. QF pilots have to jump through a bunch of hoops that others don't and at the end of it we're supposedly no better than anyone else. Those hoops ostensibly serve no purpose. They add considerably to the cost of being a QF pilot for (supposedly) no added benefit.
The point is that QF on the one hand seem to think those hoops are necessary but don't make others within the group jump through them. It's an inconsistent stance that benefits those who undercut the jobs.
As to standards, hard for any line driver to comment intelligently- from any airline. There are only 3-4 people I suspect that would have the real picture across the Jetconnet, Jetstar and mainline operation. Sadly I don't see Roly and a couple of the others posting on PPRUNE. A chat with them can be informative though.
longjohn, I'm sure QF would love to take the 45 year old former EK 777 driver for a command slot on less pay than they're looking at having to pay the 37 year old F/O who has been with QF for 13 years who is now about to upgrade. I'm sure the 45 year old former EK 777 driver can't possibly fathom why the scenario above strikes of extreme self interest (the same self interest as those who have been in QF for 13 years and are close to command no doubt but at least one has shown continued loyalty to the carrier) and further enforces the 'race for the bottom' that permit carriers like Jetconnect, J* NZ, Pac Blue, to a lesser degree J* Oz and DJ to continue to pay poor terms and conditions.
What is disappointing too is that I recall a longjohn who once asked when the race to the bottom would cease but your comments now indicate that you're quite happy to continue running that very same race. You've changed man! (said in my best hippy voice).
The point is that QF on the one hand seem to think those hoops are necessary but don't make others within the group jump through them. It's an inconsistent stance that benefits those who undercut the jobs.
As to standards, hard for any line driver to comment intelligently- from any airline. There are only 3-4 people I suspect that would have the real picture across the Jetconnet, Jetstar and mainline operation. Sadly I don't see Roly and a couple of the others posting on PPRUNE. A chat with them can be informative though.
longjohn, I'm sure QF would love to take the 45 year old former EK 777 driver for a command slot on less pay than they're looking at having to pay the 37 year old F/O who has been with QF for 13 years who is now about to upgrade. I'm sure the 45 year old former EK 777 driver can't possibly fathom why the scenario above strikes of extreme self interest (the same self interest as those who have been in QF for 13 years and are close to command no doubt but at least one has shown continued loyalty to the carrier) and further enforces the 'race for the bottom' that permit carriers like Jetconnect, J* NZ, Pac Blue, to a lesser degree J* Oz and DJ to continue to pay poor terms and conditions.
What is disappointing too is that I recall a longjohn who once asked when the race to the bottom would cease but your comments now indicate that you're quite happy to continue running that very same race. You've changed man! (said in my best hippy voice).
Last edited by Keg; 28th Aug 2009 at 21:03.
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"That's gold- JQ pilot's taking a stand on someone else lowering the bar on conditions"
Perfect could not have said that better myself.
And.........." leaked information on jetconnect" where have you been for 7 years!!
A rumour I have heard from one of my relaible sources is that Jetconnect get their ZK-800s for 18 months, sort out the teething problems and then flick them back to the superior, better trained mainline pilots so they can fly trouble free aircraft. Jetconnect get a brand new one and sort out the problems for them again. Hope our training is up to it!!
Perfect could not have said that better myself.
And.........." leaked information on jetconnect" where have you been for 7 years!!
A rumour I have heard from one of my relaible sources is that Jetconnect get their ZK-800s for 18 months, sort out the teething problems and then flick them back to the superior, better trained mainline pilots so they can fly trouble free aircraft. Jetconnect get a brand new one and sort out the problems for them again. Hope our training is up to it!!
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I think Posters are reading too much into the Jetconnect circus.
Now that Jetstar NZ are in the play at a cheaper cost base, coupled with Mr Joyce indicating more cuts, I can see the Jetstar NZ guys flying the Tasman and Jetconnect being folded. The Jetconnect scale is not there to deliver any benefit to QF - other than the strategic "race to the bottom" which is also obsolete as that mantra is now carried by Jetstar NZ!!
It wouldn't take much for our AIPA leaders to show sound financial cost comparisons and re-gain that flying - at least for the short term.
Now that Jetstar NZ are in the play at a cheaper cost base, coupled with Mr Joyce indicating more cuts, I can see the Jetstar NZ guys flying the Tasman and Jetconnect being folded. The Jetconnect scale is not there to deliver any benefit to QF - other than the strategic "race to the bottom" which is also obsolete as that mantra is now carried by Jetstar NZ!!
It wouldn't take much for our AIPA leaders to show sound financial cost comparisons and re-gain that flying - at least for the short term.
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You can hear the bleating in the sandpit from Oz, from all the expat pilots when anyone dares join their airline as a DEC. "How dare anyone take 'my command!' "
But now when the '45 yr old ex 777 captain' wants to come home, it's ok to come back as a DEC and give all us poor locals the benefit of all his experience.
Could there be a touch of hypocrisy here?
But now when the '45 yr old ex 777 captain' wants to come home, it's ok to come back as a DEC and give all us poor locals the benefit of all his experience.
Could there be a touch of hypocrisy here?
How were QF proposing that QF check captains actually legally check a NZ endorsed/licensed pilot? Wouldn't you have to be licensed and checked by the NZ CAA before doing that? Or does the Trans Tasman agreement mean that checking roles are interchangeable regardless of the issuing authority.
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Looks like Keg is one of the few who passed reading comprehension.
Kimir and Longjohn go and read Kegs post again.
That's the whole point. Qantas Mainline keeps getting thrown in their face by management that they are not cost competitive , yet there is a whole plethora of added costs lumped on Mainline pilots that are of Managements doing that the pilots have little or no control over, yet Mainline pilots are expected to keep giving things up and going above and beyond to keep the show on the road ,in order to stay in the race, yet management don't or can't seem to change things that they control such as over training which is expensive ,cutting overall staffing levels per aircraft across the entire company to sensible levels etc. Why is that? AIPA and Qantas pilots continually rally to the cause yet it appears more and more to be Management who can never stick to a deal and keep their end of the bargain up.
That is the huge bugbear of many Qantas pilots at present, the unscrupulous Management types that have to be dealt with .
It would appear to be a prerequisite that in order to join the exalted ranks of Qantas management one must have a Moral Compass that needs degaussing in a serious way.
PS: sfoxs I seem to recall there was a post somewhere here referring to the fact that all this jetconnect thing that has blown up isn't the impending implementation of the -800's but rather a lot of internal Qantas discussion about massive expansion of Jetconnect.
Kimir and Longjohn go and read Kegs post again.
That's the whole point. Qantas Mainline keeps getting thrown in their face by management that they are not cost competitive , yet there is a whole plethora of added costs lumped on Mainline pilots that are of Managements doing that the pilots have little or no control over, yet Mainline pilots are expected to keep giving things up and going above and beyond to keep the show on the road ,in order to stay in the race, yet management don't or can't seem to change things that they control such as over training which is expensive ,cutting overall staffing levels per aircraft across the entire company to sensible levels etc. Why is that? AIPA and Qantas pilots continually rally to the cause yet it appears more and more to be Management who can never stick to a deal and keep their end of the bargain up.
That is the huge bugbear of many Qantas pilots at present, the unscrupulous Management types that have to be dealt with .
It would appear to be a prerequisite that in order to join the exalted ranks of Qantas management one must have a Moral Compass that needs degaussing in a serious way.
PS: sfoxs I seem to recall there was a post somewhere here referring to the fact that all this jetconnect thing that has blown up isn't the impending implementation of the -800's but rather a lot of internal Qantas discussion about massive expansion of Jetconnect.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 29th Aug 2009 at 05:41.
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I'm thinking that when Qantas sends managment types to LA (last week) to learn how to do the ramp work and so on as they are expecting a "****fight that will make 89 look like a couple of girlies arguing" somethings smelly.
This is fact....I was talking to one of them the other day.
They didn't want to send these people to Melb or Sydney due to "it might give them (I'm thinking them is the drivers!)an inkling of whats about to happen"
Same managment type went on to wax lyrical how QF drivers are overpaid, shouldn't have access to business class when repositioning, should not have taxi picking them up etc etc etc ad nauseum.!!!
Funny how the same individual was then heard boasting about how she went first class!!!
Amazing what one hears at mothers groups!!!!
This is fact....I was talking to one of them the other day.
They didn't want to send these people to Melb or Sydney due to "it might give them (I'm thinking them is the drivers!)an inkling of whats about to happen"
Same managment type went on to wax lyrical how QF drivers are overpaid, shouldn't have access to business class when repositioning, should not have taxi picking them up etc etc etc ad nauseum.!!!
Funny how the same individual was then heard boasting about how she went first class!!!
Amazing what one hears at mothers groups!!!!
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GADRIVR.
She has no problem boasting about this because she believes she is 'worth it' whereas the pilots do less then nothing for their money.
In her mind, the fact that the 'QANTAS group' has been able to hire people without a HSC, who cant pass psychometric testing, who don't cost anything to train, who have failed (in some cases on multiple occasions) to find employment with any other major airline AND then these people have not crashed an aircraft means that the model of pilot standards as previously understood is an unnecessary waste of money.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding by nearly all airline management in this country as to what it takes to get the job and what it takes to do the job.
This is reinforced by forums such as these where abuse, the inability to debate rationally, the inability to string basic forms of grammar together and the continual publicly stated desire to undercut anyone earning more money is repeatedly expressed. You can see her point.
No wonder hardly anyone bothered to fill out the engagement survey. Its probably just as well. I dont think senior management would have read any of it anyhow.
She has no problem boasting about this because she believes she is 'worth it' whereas the pilots do less then nothing for their money.
In her mind, the fact that the 'QANTAS group' has been able to hire people without a HSC, who cant pass psychometric testing, who don't cost anything to train, who have failed (in some cases on multiple occasions) to find employment with any other major airline AND then these people have not crashed an aircraft means that the model of pilot standards as previously understood is an unnecessary waste of money.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding by nearly all airline management in this country as to what it takes to get the job and what it takes to do the job.
This is reinforced by forums such as these where abuse, the inability to debate rationally, the inability to string basic forms of grammar together and the continual publicly stated desire to undercut anyone earning more money is repeatedly expressed. You can see her point.
No wonder hardly anyone bothered to fill out the engagement survey. Its probably just as well. I dont think senior management would have read any of it anyhow.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what do management types in LA doing "ramp work" (i.e. strike breaking) have to do with mainline pilot pay and conditions?
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Mohikan, I'm really hoping you are not suggesting that that QF testing gets the best of the best!
I know you where told that when you started by the management baffoons that have risen from their cadet beginings.
Jet Connect, Jetstar, Cobham a little help from Alliance. . . . who needs Qantas anyway!!
I know you where told that when you started by the management baffoons that have risen from their cadet beginings.
Jet Connect, Jetstar, Cobham a little help from Alliance. . . . who needs Qantas anyway!!
Last edited by Dr_Clowneus; 1st Sep 2009 at 06:21.
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I know you where old that when you started by the management baffoons that have risen from their cadet beginnings.
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Jetconnect is the next instalment of the J* experiment..see how far pilots will undercut to fly the next plane...
Who is next Qlink?
Sadly for Q management they dont realise there actually is a shortage..say at least 8000 in China with commuting contracts a reality from Aus, it is a very shortlived model..Candidly Q management due the industrial advice they get usually ignore competitor behaviour and indeed pilot behaviour...Oldmeadow is too old...
Who is next Qlink?
Sadly for Q management they dont realise there actually is a shortage..say at least 8000 in China with commuting contracts a reality from Aus, it is a very shortlived model..Candidly Q management due the industrial advice they get usually ignore competitor behaviour and indeed pilot behaviour...Oldmeadow is too old...
longjohn
Keg
Past perusal of previous posts would give a strong indication that longjohn is ex AN, ex QF and now JQ. I would hazard a guess that he has benefited by subverting seniority at JQ to now hold a command (or using to the full extent the very loose seniority provisions in the Jetstar EBA). What's that old saying about self interest?
QF pilots strict adherence to seniority, flying in the face of reason and common business sense is the reason that the group are able to play pilots against each other - pure and simple. So long as QF pilots value a 22 year old cadet more than a 45 year old former 777 Captain, purely based on joining date then this problem will haunt them.
Keg
What is disappointing too is that I recall a longjohn who once asked when the race to the bottom would cease but your comments now indicate that you're quite happy to continue running that very same race.
Past perusal of previous posts would give a strong indication that longjohn is ex AN, ex QF and now JQ. I would hazard a guess that he has benefited by subverting seniority at JQ to now hold a command (or using to the full extent the very loose seniority provisions in the Jetstar EBA). What's that old saying about self interest?