When will the pilots in this forum learn to share with FA's?
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I was just reading about the LAME CNS positions under threat.. Should i ask why they are on this forum?
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I'm yet to see any substantive argument put forward by a pilot.
Blueloo is the latest and the best he can do is point out that PPrune stands for professional pilots.
As I pointed out this is for 'ALL' aspects of aviation and that means not just the flight deck.
As has been pointed out there are engineers here and does this mean they should be booted out?
It is true that some cabin crew behave poorly but then so do some pilots.
If you look at the John Howard thread and some of the Jetstar related threads you will see some very angry people and some have been sinbinned.
Is that OK because they are pilots?
C'Mon AOA,tell us what you are really saying?
Blueloo is the latest and the best he can do is point out that PPrune stands for professional pilots.
As I pointed out this is for 'ALL' aspects of aviation and that means not just the flight deck.
As has been pointed out there are engineers here and does this mean they should be booted out?
It is true that some cabin crew behave poorly but then so do some pilots.
If you look at the John Howard thread and some of the Jetstar related threads you will see some very angry people and some have been sinbinned.
Is that OK because they are pilots?
You cannot compare LAME'S with cabin crew at all, enough said, they require years and years of training to be qualified.
The difference is pilots value the opinion of the lames we deal with day to day and consider they are an invaluable resource in our workplace. Sadly the same can not be said for many cc as they more often than not have a poor understanding of what we do and resent the difference in our payscale.
Hello Jungle Juice. It's possible you only see what yuo want to see. The other sub-forums include specialised areas for just about everyone involved in aviation includikng the cabin crew. IIRC, the description of the DG&P forums was changed a while back to cover the QF girls who were eased (thrown) out of the CC forum by the moderators there who'd had enough of the bitching and unpleasantness.
Despite there being special areas for them, the travel agent, LAMEs and others were NOT thrown out of those other areas and sent here so as not to be a pain in the arses of other mods, so in their cases no one really minds. Do you get it? DG&P has become a repository for the misfits of the cabin crew forums, against the wishes of the DG&P members, it seems.
Flying Solo, the LAMEs are welcome here because they are constructive and professional. Can you see the difference yet?
Here's an easy solution: Why not set up a special third room under the DG&P banner where the girls can discuss whatever they need to. It could be described as QF Cabin Crew - if your topics and style are rejected by the entire cabin crew industry AND the pilots in your own country, post it here!
It'll be something of a status symbol.
Despite there being special areas for them, the travel agent, LAMEs and others were NOT thrown out of those other areas and sent here so as not to be a pain in the arses of other mods, so in their cases no one really minds. Do you get it? DG&P has become a repository for the misfits of the cabin crew forums, against the wishes of the DG&P members, it seems.
Flying Solo, the LAMEs are welcome here because they are constructive and professional. Can you see the difference yet?
Here's an easy solution: Why not set up a special third room under the DG&P banner where the girls can discuss whatever they need to. It could be described as QF Cabin Crew - if your topics and style are rejected by the entire cabin crew industry AND the pilots in your own country, post it here!
It'll be something of a status symbol.
Thread Starter
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Sorry Green Goblin, but who arms your doors?? oh, just those idiots right? Im glad i started this thread, im learning more and more that you are all very narrow minded.
Shame..
Shame..
Im glad i started this thread, im learning more and more that you are all very narrow minded.
I suspect that, at the ripe young age of 58, you already had your opinions very firmly entrenched. But thankyou anyway for the attempt at painting a rosier picture of the 'love' between the crew! I'm happy to say where I work, there's a lot more mutual respect. I can't imagine what it must be like at your airline...
Nunc est bibendum
I couldn't care less where the cabin crew post. I just like the irony of calling for everyone to get along whilst then telling people to get over and generally showing a lack of desire to get along.
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Who arms your doors. You're kidding aren't you. Its not rocket science, I could get my 6 month old daughter to arm a door.
Funniest post I have read in a while.
Stick to beef or chicken.
Funniest post I have read in a while.
Stick to beef or chicken.
A SIMPLE SOLUTION. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR ALL F/A'S WHO START A THREAD TO PUT A BIG
F/A OR C/C
BEFORE THEY PUT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD, THEN ANY DIS-INTERESTED PARTIES WILL KNOW TO LEAVE IT ALONE. I THINK THAT IT IS FAIR TO ASK THE F/A'S TO DO THIS AS IT WAS THEIR BEHAVIOUR THAT FORCED THE LOCKOUT OF THEIR 'NATIVE' FORUMS IN THE FIRSTPLACE.
That being said I shall now bite on a few issues...
Comparing F/A's to LAME's is like comparing teachers to pupils. One group has worked god-damned hard, done a 4 year apprentice-ship, done their hangar time etc. The other USUALLY (NOTE: NOT ALWAYS) has a lot to learn, and this is being shown in this very thread.
Flying Solo, trust me when I say it's a two way street on the narrow minded-ness. You claim to be playing nice, but your posts on here suggest the polar opposite.
"GET OVER IT!"
"and you thought cabin crew were catty! "
"Read our threads if you choose, comment and get a feel of the pressure and worry we have of job security at the moment. This is the only place we can speak out, without management breathing down our necks." YEAH COS HALF THE PILOTS AREN'T FEELING THE SAME PRESSURE. YOU LOT (QF CC's) HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PLAY NICE IN YOUR OWN FORUMS, NOW WELCOME TO OURS!
"But are happy that you are hosting us for the moment" Don't get too comfy
I orginially started this post.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...f-threads.html
It descended at an uncontrolled rate into a slanging match at which I asked it to be closed. It was a very interesting introduction into what we are seeing now. My patience is at it's end. No wonder you all got booted from the other forums.
jungle juice, I know there are good, cool headed CC's out there like yourself, however, Flying Solo and their ilk really can't wander on in and expect the welcome mat.
You have antagonised the PPRUNE D,G&P pilot group, RPT, GA, the lot, don't expect the welcome mat or anything that might resemble anything but a sub-zero reception
j3
F/A OR C/C
BEFORE THEY PUT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD, THEN ANY DIS-INTERESTED PARTIES WILL KNOW TO LEAVE IT ALONE. I THINK THAT IT IS FAIR TO ASK THE F/A'S TO DO THIS AS IT WAS THEIR BEHAVIOUR THAT FORCED THE LOCKOUT OF THEIR 'NATIVE' FORUMS IN THE FIRSTPLACE.
That being said I shall now bite on a few issues...
Comparing F/A's to LAME's is like comparing teachers to pupils. One group has worked god-damned hard, done a 4 year apprentice-ship, done their hangar time etc. The other USUALLY (NOTE: NOT ALWAYS) has a lot to learn, and this is being shown in this very thread.
Flying Solo, trust me when I say it's a two way street on the narrow minded-ness. You claim to be playing nice, but your posts on here suggest the polar opposite.
"GET OVER IT!"
"and you thought cabin crew were catty! "
"Read our threads if you choose, comment and get a feel of the pressure and worry we have of job security at the moment. This is the only place we can speak out, without management breathing down our necks." YEAH COS HALF THE PILOTS AREN'T FEELING THE SAME PRESSURE. YOU LOT (QF CC's) HAD YOUR CHANCE TO PLAY NICE IN YOUR OWN FORUMS, NOW WELCOME TO OURS!
"But are happy that you are hosting us for the moment" Don't get too comfy
I orginially started this post.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...f-threads.html
It descended at an uncontrolled rate into a slanging match at which I asked it to be closed. It was a very interesting introduction into what we are seeing now. My patience is at it's end. No wonder you all got booted from the other forums.
jungle juice, I know there are good, cool headed CC's out there like yourself, however, Flying Solo and their ilk really can't wander on in and expect the welcome mat.
You have antagonised the PPRUNE D,G&P pilot group, RPT, GA, the lot, don't expect the welcome mat or anything that might resemble anything but a sub-zero reception
j3
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A little background that may help...
As discussed, QF threads about/by QF crew are usually moved here from the CC forum: This was after numerous warnings and complaints from other users and as a direct result of the unacceptable behavior of many of those posting on the subject(s) in CC.
The threads were blocked and moved to DG&P because accusations were made by the QF crew that the Mods (and everybody else in the world, it turned out) did not understand and appreciate the supposedly unique style of Australian humour and expression being demonstrated. On the off chance that this was correct, we decided that it was better to direct threads in here (rather than simply banning individual users) where possibly, what passes for rudeness, aggression and triviality in the rest of the world might be understood as something else. Given the large number of Australians that we have met whose behavior and style had nothing at all to do with that demonstrated by the QF crew in question, it is no surprise to see that they are as welcome here as they were in CC.
Threads for other Australian airlines (VB etc.) continue to run in the CC forum: The issue is a QF issue, rather than one of nationality. Interestingly, the very worst of the QF CC muckrakers are equally adept at fouling the nests of pilots and their fellow CC as they are the airline itself. I am reminded of the deeply unattractive members of various European Nationalist political parties - they wrap themselves in the nations flag while espousing theories and activities that are the antithesis of everything that they purport to represent.
On a personal note, one of the reasons that I moderate on PPRuNe, in CC, is because of a desire to improve the perception of my profession by others - this includes Pilots. Every time that any CC posts something that is "anti" pilot, the cause of mutual understanding is damaged - we take one step forward and two steps back. We work in the same metal tube, with the same commercial goals, as part of a team, albeit with different roles, and a defined chain of command. Attempting to throw rocks through the flight deck door, in either direction, is surely an exercise in futility?
As discussed, QF threads about/by QF crew are usually moved here from the CC forum: This was after numerous warnings and complaints from other users and as a direct result of the unacceptable behavior of many of those posting on the subject(s) in CC.
The threads were blocked and moved to DG&P because accusations were made by the QF crew that the Mods (and everybody else in the world, it turned out) did not understand and appreciate the supposedly unique style of Australian humour and expression being demonstrated. On the off chance that this was correct, we decided that it was better to direct threads in here (rather than simply banning individual users) where possibly, what passes for rudeness, aggression and triviality in the rest of the world might be understood as something else. Given the large number of Australians that we have met whose behavior and style had nothing at all to do with that demonstrated by the QF crew in question, it is no surprise to see that they are as welcome here as they were in CC.
Threads for other Australian airlines (VB etc.) continue to run in the CC forum: The issue is a QF issue, rather than one of nationality. Interestingly, the very worst of the QF CC muckrakers are equally adept at fouling the nests of pilots and their fellow CC as they are the airline itself. I am reminded of the deeply unattractive members of various European Nationalist political parties - they wrap themselves in the nations flag while espousing theories and activities that are the antithesis of everything that they purport to represent.
On a personal note, one of the reasons that I moderate on PPRuNe, in CC, is because of a desire to improve the perception of my profession by others - this includes Pilots. Every time that any CC posts something that is "anti" pilot, the cause of mutual understanding is damaged - we take one step forward and two steps back. We work in the same metal tube, with the same commercial goals, as part of a team, albeit with different roles, and a defined chain of command. Attempting to throw rocks through the flight deck door, in either direction, is surely an exercise in futility?
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Flying Solo
Ok Go away then! Because you arent either!
Jungle Juice
What I am saying is that you cannot compare CC with engineers, hell you can do a 1 week course and work on the 380! The point is this is a pilots network and I think I am not only one thinking WTF?!
Who cares AOA they are not pilots, hence they shouldn't be here... just using the view of your peers
Jungle Juice
C'Mon AOA,tell us what you are really saying?
How about an "Airline Specific Private Forum" for the QFCC, then? It works for the pilots. They can go for it in there and happily sling muck all over the place... Good for us, good for them, everyone's a winner.
All in favour?
All in favour?
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The following post was made by the CC moderator on the 18th January that preceded QF cabin crew's move to the D&G forum-
__________________________________
OK...
Let's start with this - the CC forum are not managers and have no agenda to promote anything to do with any aspect of QANTAS - frankly we could care less. Accusing those who take a different view of being managers is both lazy in thought and infantile in practise - please restrict it to whatever playground you use regularly.
QANTAS (and other Australian) threads on this forum have along history of unacceptable behavior: Thread drift, abuse, vitriol, profanity, bloody-mindedness, stroppiness, politicization - the list goes on. For reasons that defy understanding, this kind of behavior is deemed acceptable by a large number of Australian crew - even though it is not in the rest of the world (I mean the rest of the world quite literally). To be fair, it tends to be a vocal minority - the usual suspects - that take part: This minority have no concept of the effect that their views and actions have on readers from elsewhere. Any sympathy that might theoretically have been enjoyed by QANTAS crew vaporized when it was realized that they richly deserved the management that they received. The truly extraordinary thing is that Australians that I have met in person have no discernible link with the QANTAS rabble on PPRuNe - they are the inverse of all the behavior listed above. How did so many tedious Australians end up in the aviation business? Very strange.
For a while the mods tried the approach subtle - explanations (such as this one) hints, suggestions and so forth: This failed comprehensively. Subsequently forum and thread bans worked for a while, but they tend to create additional work for mods. The next idea was simply to transfer all OZ threads to the D&G forums - this at least corrals the problem away from sight of normal people - unfortunately the D&G mods are now just as sick as we are of tedious whining QANTAS crew, and have started sending the threads back to us. Frankly, my inclinations is simply to delete any further threads in Cabin Crew forum that refer to aviation in Australia and permanently ban those users that we know to be troublesome. The other mods in this forum are not only smarter than me, but also more patient (for the time being at least) so for now, no change, but watch this space.
If you were all moderators, you would be able to "see" on log-in the number of posts on this thread that we have had to delete - I assure you it is higher than many of you realize.
Please understand, this post should not be viewed as some sort of invitation to debate, or explain further. I'm not interested in any of that - it's been done before and didn't work then - I just don't have the time or patience to go through all that again. I would suggest that you all remember it though, as I've more than had enough of Australian aviation of any kind on the Cabin Crew forum.
__________________________________
OK...
Let's start with this - the CC forum are not managers and have no agenda to promote anything to do with any aspect of QANTAS - frankly we could care less. Accusing those who take a different view of being managers is both lazy in thought and infantile in practise - please restrict it to whatever playground you use regularly.
QANTAS (and other Australian) threads on this forum have along history of unacceptable behavior: Thread drift, abuse, vitriol, profanity, bloody-mindedness, stroppiness, politicization - the list goes on. For reasons that defy understanding, this kind of behavior is deemed acceptable by a large number of Australian crew - even though it is not in the rest of the world (I mean the rest of the world quite literally). To be fair, it tends to be a vocal minority - the usual suspects - that take part: This minority have no concept of the effect that their views and actions have on readers from elsewhere. Any sympathy that might theoretically have been enjoyed by QANTAS crew vaporized when it was realized that they richly deserved the management that they received. The truly extraordinary thing is that Australians that I have met in person have no discernible link with the QANTAS rabble on PPRuNe - they are the inverse of all the behavior listed above. How did so many tedious Australians end up in the aviation business? Very strange.
For a while the mods tried the approach subtle - explanations (such as this one) hints, suggestions and so forth: This failed comprehensively. Subsequently forum and thread bans worked for a while, but they tend to create additional work for mods. The next idea was simply to transfer all OZ threads to the D&G forums - this at least corrals the problem away from sight of normal people - unfortunately the D&G mods are now just as sick as we are of tedious whining QANTAS crew, and have started sending the threads back to us. Frankly, my inclinations is simply to delete any further threads in Cabin Crew forum that refer to aviation in Australia and permanently ban those users that we know to be troublesome. The other mods in this forum are not only smarter than me, but also more patient (for the time being at least) so for now, no change, but watch this space.
If you were all moderators, you would be able to "see" on log-in the number of posts on this thread that we have had to delete - I assure you it is higher than many of you realize.
Please understand, this post should not be viewed as some sort of invitation to debate, or explain further. I'm not interested in any of that - it's been done before and didn't work then - I just don't have the time or patience to go through all that again. I would suggest that you all remember it though, as I've more than had enough of Australian aviation of any kind on the Cabin Crew forum.
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Very nice last paragraph TightSlot.
I am with Keg in so much as the fact that I couldn't care less where the C.C post - although I imagine the Cabin Crew forum was created for a reason... to have some order and logic to the forum for this very reason... so people didn't need to trawl through heaps of threads that are not likely to be of any interest to them.
If the behaviour of these individuals is unacceptable in the rest of the forums, then it is unlikely to be much more acceptable here. It doesn't matter if they are C.C, Groundstaff or Private Flyers... their behaviour would be as equally unacceptable. This is not a "pilots vs cabin crew" issue... its a "Residents vs the new upstarts" one
After all, we already have enough of our own reprobates!
I am with Keg in so much as the fact that I couldn't care less where the C.C post - although I imagine the Cabin Crew forum was created for a reason... to have some order and logic to the forum for this very reason... so people didn't need to trawl through heaps of threads that are not likely to be of any interest to them.
If the behaviour of these individuals is unacceptable in the rest of the forums, then it is unlikely to be much more acceptable here. It doesn't matter if they are C.C, Groundstaff or Private Flyers... their behaviour would be as equally unacceptable. This is not a "pilots vs cabin crew" issue... its a "Residents vs the new upstarts" one
After all, we already have enough of our own reprobates!
Sorry Green Goblin, but who arms your doors?? oh, just those idiots right?
Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you mucked up those said doors and took a little tumble aloft, perhaps then you might develop some basic appreciation (and perhaps some understanding albeit momentarily) of the physics behind flight.
Sadly, I don't think we would wave