State of Virgin Blue
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Sn Stars
actually they are being creative.... almost to the point of being too cute
- the apps for the international ops are for PacBlue, which despite being used as a Panama flag for VB, is not technically an australian airline.
(for Vb drivers and CC it is a risk as the local ebas don't preclude or specify ratios for OS crew engagement and the 'VB Group' I daresay would like QF be seriously attracted to an even lower pay scale)
I believe the matter is about to be raised with the IASC and the Minister
actually they are being creative.... almost to the point of being too cute
- the apps for the international ops are for PacBlue, which despite being used as a Panama flag for VB, is not technically an australian airline.
(for Vb drivers and CC it is a risk as the local ebas don't preclude or specify ratios for OS crew engagement and the 'VB Group' I daresay would like QF be seriously attracted to an even lower pay scale)
I believe the matter is about to be raised with the IASC and the Minister
Airtags... there are two entities called Pacific Blue at play. Both are wholly owned by VB Holdings, one registered on each side of the Tasman.
I think you'd find that Pac Blue (Aus) Ltd is an Australian company resident in Brisbane, while Pac Blue (NZ) is headquartered in Christchurch and employs all of 5 or 6 people directly.
This is how the same airline can approach (for example) Indonesia and Fiji claiming to be Aussie but Cook Islands claiming to be Kiwi. It gets messy when the same entity then approaches Fiji claiming to be Kiwi, a matter as yet unresolved, hence no AKL-NAN flights yet.
There's a real danger here that VB will start yet another entity to crew the cabins of the regional flights, one capable of longer duty periods. The precedent is more than set, look at Zeal in NZ, the number of Thai speakers that seem to be required on Jetstar's Syd-Hnl flights.
I would recommend that the FAAA state now what they would do if the flying was carved off from their members, to ensure it doesn't go ahead. VB could not afford to ground a morning's worth of Mel/Syd flying over a minor sliver ofthe operation.
I think you'd find that Pac Blue (Aus) Ltd is an Australian company resident in Brisbane, while Pac Blue (NZ) is headquartered in Christchurch and employs all of 5 or 6 people directly.
This is how the same airline can approach (for example) Indonesia and Fiji claiming to be Aussie but Cook Islands claiming to be Kiwi. It gets messy when the same entity then approaches Fiji claiming to be Kiwi, a matter as yet unresolved, hence no AKL-NAN flights yet.
There's a real danger here that VB will start yet another entity to crew the cabins of the regional flights, one capable of longer duty periods. The precedent is more than set, look at Zeal in NZ, the number of Thai speakers that seem to be required on Jetstar's Syd-Hnl flights.
I would recommend that the FAAA state now what they would do if the flying was carved off from their members, to ensure it doesn't go ahead. VB could not afford to ground a morning's worth of Mel/Syd flying over a minor sliver ofthe operation.
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Goat W
agree totally - not only is there a real risk to erosion of Aust jobs but the reality is that reciprocal rights accessible by such agreements can further undermine the market and all of our jobs. Those sitting at desks in the IASC need to be much more astute.
Also agree that the CC unions [especially] must get off their tails get saavy with VB - given the performance of the domestic FAAA in the current VB eba I think VB M'ment are not the slightest bit concerned. (info courtesy of my other half who is about to be done over with her fellow CC). VB drivers may also have to watch their backs if the company can leverage enough seats to initiate the ops from offshore.
It might be a little different in the future as a mate of mine working in Canberra mentioned that the CC's international union has been raising its profile with a few pollies and their minders in recent weeks.
I don't mind the competition, but I expect EVERYONE flying in Australian skies to meet the same safety standards that my company, aircraft and crew have to comply with.
The blurry VB line of convenience that uses the NZ AOC and various other bureacratic dispensations, some of which have expired, is ultimately a safety risk. This is where CASA and the about to be transformed ATSB need to stop turning the other cheek to foreign carriers and get serious about what their real purpose is.
agree totally - not only is there a real risk to erosion of Aust jobs but the reality is that reciprocal rights accessible by such agreements can further undermine the market and all of our jobs. Those sitting at desks in the IASC need to be much more astute.
Also agree that the CC unions [especially] must get off their tails get saavy with VB - given the performance of the domestic FAAA in the current VB eba I think VB M'ment are not the slightest bit concerned. (info courtesy of my other half who is about to be done over with her fellow CC). VB drivers may also have to watch their backs if the company can leverage enough seats to initiate the ops from offshore.
It might be a little different in the future as a mate of mine working in Canberra mentioned that the CC's international union has been raising its profile with a few pollies and their minders in recent weeks.
I don't mind the competition, but I expect EVERYONE flying in Australian skies to meet the same safety standards that my company, aircraft and crew have to comply with.
The blurry VB line of convenience that uses the NZ AOC and various other bureacratic dispensations, some of which have expired, is ultimately a safety risk. This is where CASA and the about to be transformed ATSB need to stop turning the other cheek to foreign carriers and get serious about what their real purpose is.
Fortunately PB have had such trouble recruiting recently that most of the expanded PB has gone to VB crew under a wetlease arrangement. Almost all of the VB secondees to PB refused to extend their secondment and are now back at VB thus all the Bali, BNE - WLG, and most of the new Pacific Island flying is to be done by VB crew.
jism - that's why they had the secondment in first place, long before the recruitment ban was in place. Besides, it appears it is a 'ban' in name only. The ex DFO of the Skyairworld calamity hired just recently!!!
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Phuket being 2300nm from Darwin makes me think that it would have to be via there from anywhere else. Bloody long way in a 737 if you get the centre seat in economy.
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Mr Hat:
competition, blow ins or legitimate competion?
The AOC's for PacBlue are issued to PacBlue NZ ...the apps to the IASC are for PacBlue Australia (virtually a shelf co reg in BNE with no AOC) ...
..................so apart from minor issues like who is the REAL operator/ETOPS et al
........under the bilateral, reciprocal rights apply..... which means more openings for the likes of Thai to pick up more bums on seats out of Australia ......- all up it is not at all a good move to keep Aussie drivers and CC employed.
VH ABC
- indeed 2300nm is a long way in a 737.....but then the standards are slightly less and CASA is far less than proactive when it comes to (occaisional) "foreign carriers" and even less effective when it comes to delegated instruments that have long expired. (besides the poor bureaucrats don't quite know which identity is which when it comes to the VB group)
oh while we are on it - query: domestic FAAA - hows those 'discussions' going with CASA & multiple identity VB group re: 3 up on the 738? .......hope we are not looking at another soft c*ck cave in like that given for the jungle jet?
Question: Can you paint a panama flag on an aircraft tail?.....
.......[rhetorical question and would the starry eyed Bransonesque management flunkies from the VB bunker pls don't bother to PM me anymore]
AT
competition, blow ins or legitimate competion?
The AOC's for PacBlue are issued to PacBlue NZ ...the apps to the IASC are for PacBlue Australia (virtually a shelf co reg in BNE with no AOC) ...
..................so apart from minor issues like who is the REAL operator/ETOPS et al
........under the bilateral, reciprocal rights apply..... which means more openings for the likes of Thai to pick up more bums on seats out of Australia ......- all up it is not at all a good move to keep Aussie drivers and CC employed.VH ABC
- indeed 2300nm is a long way in a 737.....but then the standards are slightly less and CASA is far less than proactive when it comes to (occaisional) "foreign carriers" and even less effective when it comes to delegated instruments that have long expired. (besides the poor bureaucrats don't quite know which identity is which when it comes to the VB group)
oh while we are on it - query: domestic FAAA - hows those 'discussions' going with CASA & multiple identity VB group re: 3 up on the 738? .......hope we are not looking at another soft c*ck cave in like that given for the jungle jet?
Question: Can you paint a panama flag on an aircraft tail?.....
.......[rhetorical question and would the starry eyed Bransonesque management flunkies from the VB bunker pls don't bother to PM me anymore]
AT
Last edited by airtags; 20th May 2009 at 06:59. Reason: hate these tiny keyboards ..my spelling is bad enough
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So 14 days ago it was stated;
Virgin will be insolvent within the fortnight
Will the fortnight is up and Virgin are still trading and operating normally.
Perhaps it's time to stop posting crap every few months that Virgin are closing and realise Virgin are here to stay.
Virgin will be insolvent within the fortnight
Will the fortnight is up and Virgin are still trading and operating normally.
Perhaps it's time to stop posting crap every few months that Virgin are closing and realise Virgin are here to stay.
Last edited by GAFA; 21st May 2009 at 07:48.
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I think its fear GAFA.
Not only are they here to stay I think long term they are going to do pretty well. They are pretty quick to respond to difficult circumstances.
Not only are they here to stay I think long term they are going to do pretty well. They are pretty quick to respond to difficult circumstances.
Not bashing but just passing on info from LAX AA ground staff. V Australia has reduced their flights into LAX from 10 per week (7 ex SYD & 3 ex BNE) to 7 per week due to very low loads. Loads out of LAX are consistantly around 60-90 pax. I hope that this picks up soon as they would be losing very big money on these services, especially at the introductory prices that the tickets were sold at.
Airlines operating through LAX are doing it tough right now. All the operators across the Pacific have had to reduce their services, in particular SQ, CX & JAL. Airline terminals are no longer congested and taxi times have reduced dramatically.
Airlines operating through LAX are doing it tough right now. All the operators across the Pacific have had to reduce their services, in particular SQ, CX & JAL. Airline terminals are no longer congested and taxi times have reduced dramatically.