QANTAS - Sharing Of Flying
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QANTAS - Sharing Of Flying
Issued by SH FAAA today:
As foreshadowed in ‘The Week That Was’ your Association has had several meetings with Qantas aimed at managing the current crisis facing all Qantas employees.
The impact on crew both Short Haul and Long Haul is still being assessed. By way of explanation, at the initial meetings we were considering the publicly announced reduction in forecast flying and its impact on the Short Haul establishment, only to be told at a subsequent meeting that the flying split between the divisions may need to be reviewed.
Therefore, before any constructive discussions can occur on measures to be taken to manage any demonstrated surplus it is crucial that flying changes forecast over the next twelve months between both divisions be clearly defined.
Further, your Association will also be taking part in the joint ACTU meeting scheduled with Qantas early next week. Subject to the above, all measures to avoid redundancy will be examined in line
with the Association Policy. This will include but not be limited to the following:
· Transfer of flying
· Transfer of crew between the divisions
· Examine base establishments
· Press for Short Haul crew to have direct access to A380 operations for an agreed period
· All forms of leave including LSL
While the current environment is unprecedented, crew have demonstrated previously and we are confident will do so again, that they can pull together regardless of division or employment contracts. Members can expect a detailed update midway through next week.
My question is....where are they going to move crew to and from??? Has anyone got any ideas???? LH to SH or SH to LH???? What sort of flying are we going to share?????
PS. Please no discussion re: 1750 job losses as this is currently being discussed in the D&G forum. Please save this thread for discussion re: CC and the sharing of work etc. Also....please do not wage a QAL vs. QCCA vs. QD vs. MAM war here or anything about VR/CR.
As foreshadowed in ‘The Week That Was’ your Association has had several meetings with Qantas aimed at managing the current crisis facing all Qantas employees.
The impact on crew both Short Haul and Long Haul is still being assessed. By way of explanation, at the initial meetings we were considering the publicly announced reduction in forecast flying and its impact on the Short Haul establishment, only to be told at a subsequent meeting that the flying split between the divisions may need to be reviewed.
Therefore, before any constructive discussions can occur on measures to be taken to manage any demonstrated surplus it is crucial that flying changes forecast over the next twelve months between both divisions be clearly defined.
Further, your Association will also be taking part in the joint ACTU meeting scheduled with Qantas early next week. Subject to the above, all measures to avoid redundancy will be examined in line
with the Association Policy. This will include but not be limited to the following:
· Transfer of flying
· Transfer of crew between the divisions
· Examine base establishments
· Press for Short Haul crew to have direct access to A380 operations for an agreed period
· All forms of leave including LSL
While the current environment is unprecedented, crew have demonstrated previously and we are confident will do so again, that they can pull together regardless of division or employment contracts. Members can expect a detailed update midway through next week.
My question is....where are they going to move crew to and from??? Has anyone got any ideas???? LH to SH or SH to LH???? What sort of flying are we going to share?????
PS. Please no discussion re: 1750 job losses as this is currently being discussed in the D&G forum. Please save this thread for discussion re: CC and the sharing of work etc. Also....please do not wage a QAL vs. QCCA vs. QD vs. MAM war here or anything about VR/CR.
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Clarification vs Speculation
Before anyone goes off half cocked lets wait till we have more information as to who what when where how and why certain actions will be implemented.
Cool heads and calm hearts are what is required.
Not uninformed speculation
Cool heads and calm hearts are what is required.
Not uninformed speculation
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Would that be the same wish list long haul had during SARS and the start of the war when hundreds of long haul crew were brought across to domestic to save jobs? Short memory!!
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Mmmmm...
Short memory? No. Clear thinking? Maybe..........
The difference this time is that there appears to be a looming problem with "surplus to needs" flight attendants in both divisions.
Short memory? No. Clear thinking? Maybe..........
The difference this time is that there appears to be a looming problem with "surplus to needs" flight attendants in both divisions.
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The point being when LH was in real trouble and job losses were a real possibility the short haul FAAA were there to support you but now as evidenced by Peg 747 comments its every man for themself.
Therefore I hope our union goes hard or goes home. The flying and aircraft belong to Qantas and if they choose to give domestic crew a go on the A380 over your own crew at an undercut price, bring it on if that is the attitude of long crew and the long haul FAAA.
It is clear our union wants open and constructive discussions to avoid any job losses in ANY division and Peg calls that a wish list. Well if the long haul FAAA is happy to see crew in other divisions loose their jobs when other solutions can be found before CR so be it.
P.S. It wasnt that long ago that the company made another offer to QAL crew to operate the A380 watch the stampede if CR is banded around, however the door may very well be slammed in your face due to your own spite towards others divisions.
Therefore I hope our union goes hard or goes home. The flying and aircraft belong to Qantas and if they choose to give domestic crew a go on the A380 over your own crew at an undercut price, bring it on if that is the attitude of long crew and the long haul FAAA.
It is clear our union wants open and constructive discussions to avoid any job losses in ANY division and Peg calls that a wish list. Well if the long haul FAAA is happy to see crew in other divisions loose their jobs when other solutions can be found before CR so be it.
P.S. It wasnt that long ago that the company made another offer to QAL crew to operate the A380 watch the stampede if CR is banded around, however the door may very well be slammed in your face due to your own spite towards others divisions.
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GalleyHag
GalleyHag.....well said darling.
Pegasus747....I don't think LH (or SH for that matter) have a say in how the company chooses to run its business....particularly in this current economic climate. Money talks and bull
walks....if the company wants to share the flying around or makes LH do PER returns or gives SH access to A380....or whatever it wants to do with its operations, then so be it. Both LH/SH FAAA can rant and rave and wave EBAs....but hey...I'm doing whatever the company wants me to do in order to keep my job and hopefully help my fellow colleagues (be they LH/SH) keep theirs. Now is not really the time to be self-righteous....we need to cooperate with each other and the company.
Anyway...lets not thread drift.
I will post more info from FAAA once they come to hand.
Pegasus747....I don't think LH (or SH for that matter) have a say in how the company chooses to run its business....particularly in this current economic climate. Money talks and bull
walks....if the company wants to share the flying around or makes LH do PER returns or gives SH access to A380....or whatever it wants to do with its operations, then so be it. Both LH/SH FAAA can rant and rave and wave EBAs....but hey...I'm doing whatever the company wants me to do in order to keep my job and hopefully help my fellow colleagues (be they LH/SH) keep theirs. Now is not really the time to be self-righteous....we need to cooperate with each other and the company. Anyway...lets not thread drift.
I will post more info from FAAA once they come to hand.
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i dont know why u all have to get so hysterical all the time. The LH FAAA have indicated to the company that they can bring as many SH flight attendants to LH as they want. The LH EBA regulates A380.
If when SH crew come over they choose to go to A380 thats their decision. But let's get a few things clear
Firstly, when the LH crew did their last EBA they ensured that SH crew came over on pre existing conditions not like their SH colleagues who sold them down the river and denied them bands pay permanently
Secondly, the SH division has over 600 years of LSL and AL. When you have done what LH crew have done and burned that then we can talk about potential transfers if a surplus exists.
FInally if you think that the LH FAAA will agree to any variation to their EBA to facilutate SH transfers while there is a surplus in LH then you have rocks in your head. Further nothing will occurr until SH have burned your leave and then we can talk turkey .....Capische????
one final thought.....SH crew can always don and orange jacket and fly for jetstar "domestically" if they want a share of the Qantas group flying, at least thats the same flying as you are currently doing. A380 is another ballgame and quite frankly its a more professional work environment that any of your beehives have ever worked in. I suggest you stick to what you know best...Death by napkins!
If when SH crew come over they choose to go to A380 thats their decision. But let's get a few things clear
Firstly, when the LH crew did their last EBA they ensured that SH crew came over on pre existing conditions not like their SH colleagues who sold them down the river and denied them bands pay permanently
Secondly, the SH division has over 600 years of LSL and AL. When you have done what LH crew have done and burned that then we can talk about potential transfers if a surplus exists.
FInally if you think that the LH FAAA will agree to any variation to their EBA to facilutate SH transfers while there is a surplus in LH then you have rocks in your head. Further nothing will occurr until SH have burned your leave and then we can talk turkey .....Capische????
one final thought.....SH crew can always don and orange jacket and fly for jetstar "domestically" if they want a share of the Qantas group flying, at least thats the same flying as you are currently doing. A380 is another ballgame and quite frankly its a more professional work environment that any of your beehives have ever worked in. I suggest you stick to what you know best...Death by napkins!
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Tit 4 Tat Domestics
The regional flying agreement that the domestics did with QF plus the reduction in Bands payments for transferees did it for me.You lot broke ranks to take our flying.There are 3 reasons there is two divisions.The company likes it,we like it and you like it.Never the twain shall meet.
Personally I would be happy to see domestic flying taken over entirely by Jet*
GalleyHag and your mate Veronica hope you look good in black and tan
Personally I would be happy to see domestic flying taken over entirely by Jet*
GalleyHag and your mate Veronica hope you look good in black and tan
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Hysteria Wisteria
Um...OK...I don't want this thread to be shut down by mods and nor do I want this thread (which I started thank you very much) to be a war between LH/SH. Both GalleyHag and Peg747 raise some very valid points and I respect both of your opinions.
The truth of the matter is:
1. Yes...both divisions have hundreds of years of leave
2. The company intends to sell 10x 747 and 767 (which affects both LH and SH as we both operate these aircraft respectively).
3. There is no external recruitment of CC (except for QD which has now stopped).
4. There is going to be a reduction in flying on international routes
5. QF has pulled out of PEK and BOM (except for the shuttle between SIN and BOM).
6. There is an imbalance of crew numbers in domestic bases.
7. 3 more A380s are due to arrive by August 2009.
So yes, both divisions are upcreek....so....the best thing for all of us is to cooperate with each other and find some compromise. I really don't think the IRC (nor the Australian public and Rudd government) will have much sympathy for either LH or SH if they are hell bent on enforcing something that will see other people loose their jobs. If the company can see cost and job savings in giving either division different flying/access to aircraft...then I am pretty sure the IRC and Rudd government would support this.
Pegasus747...I am more than happy to modify the SH EBA to give you access to 737 if it meant your job was on the line.....please try to see where we are all coming from. We all want to protect each other and look after each other don't we?????
Hysteria finished.
The truth of the matter is:
1. Yes...both divisions have hundreds of years of leave
2. The company intends to sell 10x 747 and 767 (which affects both LH and SH as we both operate these aircraft respectively).
3. There is no external recruitment of CC (except for QD which has now stopped).
4. There is going to be a reduction in flying on international routes
5. QF has pulled out of PEK and BOM (except for the shuttle between SIN and BOM).
6. There is an imbalance of crew numbers in domestic bases.
7. 3 more A380s are due to arrive by August 2009.
So yes, both divisions are up
creek....so....the best thing for all of us is to cooperate with each other and find some compromise. I really don't think the IRC (nor the Australian public and Rudd government) will have much sympathy for either LH or SH if they are hell bent on enforcing something that will see other people loose their jobs. If the company can see cost and job savings in giving either division different flying/access to aircraft...then I am pretty sure the IRC and Rudd government would support this. Pegasus747...I am more than happy to modify the SH EBA to give you access to 737 if it meant your job was on the line.....please try to see where we are all coming from. We all want to protect each other and look after each other don't we?????
Hysteria finished.
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the threat of job losses is obviously very emotive. I would just suggest that ppl calm down and let their unions work with the company over this.
The suggestions of flight attendants and observers in here will not have any real input into the outcome no matter how well constructed.
The company and the unions are committed to avoiding CR where possible, and at the end of the day we are all working for the same end.
Discussions about where ppl would like to work as an alternative while there are surpluses everywhere are unhelpful and open old wounds that are clearly not healed.
LH and SH are like two different tribes ....there has been a bit of intermarraige but essentially still two different tribes with different conditions.
Lets leave the debate to those that have been elected to deal with the issues and have the necessary skill and experience rather than the usual arm chair warriors please
The additional A380's that are coming are part of the LH international Flying and do not represent additional work. Just replacing existing 747's . there will be no growth to accomodate transfers sadly. just a rebalancing of QCCA and QAL crew to the A380
The suggestions of flight attendants and observers in here will not have any real input into the outcome no matter how well constructed.
The company and the unions are committed to avoiding CR where possible, and at the end of the day we are all working for the same end.
Discussions about where ppl would like to work as an alternative while there are surpluses everywhere are unhelpful and open old wounds that are clearly not healed.
LH and SH are like two different tribes ....there has been a bit of intermarraige but essentially still two different tribes with different conditions.
Lets leave the debate to those that have been elected to deal with the issues and have the necessary skill and experience rather than the usual arm chair warriors please
The additional A380's that are coming are part of the LH international Flying and do not represent additional work. Just replacing existing 747's . there will be no growth to accomodate transfers sadly. just a rebalancing of QCCA and QAL crew to the A380
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Peg 747
Keep your wig on I am sure if any SH crew go to the A380 it would be on a LWOP arrangement and join QCCA not a transfer to the LH division and there is sweet fa the long haul faaa could do to stop that. Even blind freddy blogs can see that would be the case the company would NEVER transfer short haul crew to long haul in the current climate.
As the for the orange jacket comment a lot of good your union did for those poor b@stards during their start up just like your own AO crew its all about QAL in your eyes. The same could be said for your guys before domestic is an option should CR be the only option left for long haul crew Orange Jacket International is where you belong. They dont do much work anyway so QAL crew would just slip into that operation unnoticed.
And as for bands if you want a pissy little $190 a month I will give it to you when you come across if you knew anything about the short haul EBA bands are worthless these days.
I suggest you stick to what you know and leave the real work and negotiations to the professionals that have always dealt with VR and potentional CR in other divisions in a highly professional manner. Quite unlike yourself.
DOMESTOS
TOTALLY agree the government DO NOT want to see any further job losses and if that means looking at the legality of EBA's and so to avoid job losses Peg and his mates may have a real fight on their hands.
Lets wait and see I look forward to the outcome and any discussions considering Peg is already going into the meeting bitter and twisted about the band issue and regional flying which is so 5 minutes ago.
Keep your wig on I am sure if any SH crew go to the A380 it would be on a LWOP arrangement and join QCCA not a transfer to the LH division and there is sweet fa the long haul faaa could do to stop that. Even blind freddy blogs can see that would be the case the company would NEVER transfer short haul crew to long haul in the current climate.
As the for the orange jacket comment a lot of good your union did for those poor b@stards during their start up just like your own AO crew its all about QAL in your eyes. The same could be said for your guys before domestic is an option should CR be the only option left for long haul crew Orange Jacket International is where you belong. They dont do much work anyway so QAL crew would just slip into that operation unnoticed.
And as for bands if you want a pissy little $190 a month I will give it to you when you come across if you knew anything about the short haul EBA bands are worthless these days.
I suggest you stick to what you know and leave the real work and negotiations to the professionals that have always dealt with VR and potentional CR in other divisions in a highly professional manner. Quite unlike yourself.
DOMESTOS
TOTALLY agree the government DO NOT want to see any further job losses and if that means looking at the legality of EBA's and so to avoid job losses Peg and his mates may have a real fight on their hands.
Lets wait and see I look forward to the outcome and any discussions considering Peg is already going into the meeting bitter and twisted about the band issue and regional flying which is so 5 minutes ago.
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Pegaus747 to 737
On second thought Pegs...I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy to work on a B737 so I don't think I would let you do it (not saying that you are my enemy
). I'm so glad the company has stopped its delivery of that pile of tin can . Yes you are right...death by napkins and death by wet chux in cart handles. Oh if there is a god...get rid of the goddam 737.
You raise a very valid point....both SH and LH are very different tribes....one likes the galley roll and the other prefers the wet chux....I know which team I bat for and yes size does matter boys and girls. I guess now is the best time, more than ever for BOTH LH and SH and the company to sit together at the table and talk openly about saving jobs and cooperating with each other.
). I'm so glad the company has stopped its delivery of that pile of tin can . Yes you are right...death by napkins and death by wet chux in cart handles. Oh if there is a god...get rid of the goddam 737. You raise a very valid point....both SH and LH are very different tribes....one likes the galley roll and the other prefers the wet chux....I know which team I bat for and yes size does matter boys and girls. I guess now is the best time, more than ever for BOTH LH and SH and the company to sit together at the table and talk openly about saving jobs and cooperating with each other.
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well i have never had to negotiate anything so i wouldnt know but i have every confidence in those that managed to negotiate our last EBA and got 75 of the regional flying back where it belongs
But as for VR and CR i would suggest that its never pleasant for anyone to be on the recieving end of it but i think it likely to be a while before it hits the International Division given their current flexibility
But as for VR and CR i would suggest that its never pleasant for anyone to be on the recieving end of it but i think it likely to be a while before it hits the International Division given their current flexibility
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i have no idea where this idea of a secondment came from to the A380 .....its not the London base and is regulated by an EBA.
There is a surplus in both divisions at the moment so what would be the benefit of increasing it in LH by seconding crew to the A380???
Somehow the maths doesnt add up to me.. I have no idea why the SH FAAA would have put something like that out. As i said earlier its probably just "thinking OUt loud" or a wish list.
But its doesnt make any sense. To manage a surplus it would be easier just to flex some flying on the common aircraft like 767 and A330 not transfer crew..
I did hear an FAAA official say last week however that if there is a surplus in short haul they should close the cairns base and offer them permanent positions in LH and perhaps the A380... Perhaps thats what the SH FAAA means in its newsletter.
Thats something worth the LH FAAA pursuing if it helps the SH division as AO were LH flight attendants to start with
There is a surplus in both divisions at the moment so what would be the benefit of increasing it in LH by seconding crew to the A380???
Somehow the maths doesnt add up to me.. I have no idea why the SH FAAA would have put something like that out. As i said earlier its probably just "thinking OUt loud" or a wish list.
But its doesnt make any sense. To manage a surplus it would be easier just to flex some flying on the common aircraft like 767 and A330 not transfer crew..
I did hear an FAAA official say last week however that if there is a surplus in short haul they should close the cairns base and offer them permanent positions in LH and perhaps the A380... Perhaps thats what the SH FAAA means in its newsletter.
Thats something worth the LH FAAA pursuing if it helps the SH division as AO were LH flight attendants to start with
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In all honesty...I don't think any union, be they pilots/engineers/ground staff etc. have any leg to stand on to back the company into a corner when it comes to enforcing an EBA during this current economy. So many people have lost jobs....ABC learning centres, major banks, Pacific Brands etc...and even Virgin Atlantic and Air France/KLM are shedding people. If the company wants to give international flying to SH (to save jobs) then I don't think LH really have a leg to stand on....conversely....if the company wanted to give 'Rock Returns' to LH on the B747 (to save jobs), then I don't think the SH union have a leg to stand on either. The IRC + Rudd Government + Australian public would support anything the company chooses to do in order to save jobs.
Come on LH....SH isn't that bad....remember....we have a garbage collection cart where you can toss anything you want into it...cory pots/salad bowls/oven racks/whole meal trays/headset bags....you name it!!!! If you can stow it then you can throw it!!!! God bless the SH Garbage Collection Cart....I LOVE YOU CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on LH....SH isn't that bad....remember....we have a garbage collection cart where you can toss anything you want into it...cory pots/salad bowls/oven racks/whole meal trays/headset bags....you name it!!!! If you can stow it then you can throw it!!!! God bless the SH Garbage Collection Cart....I LOVE YOU CART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DOmestos, i seriously find your humour extremely entertainlng. The way you are able to laugh at the madness of the company and some of the procedures introduced by the SH procedures team never ceases to delight me.
I dont pax domestically as much as i used to , but its always impressive how you do so much in so little time. But the latest stuff "death by napkins" is the best entertainment i have had in years...and the micro serve of soup takes the prize>>>what the hell are they thinking.....how are those lesbian loafers going?? have they been eliminated yet
I dont pax domestically as much as i used to , but its always impressive how you do so much in so little time. But the latest stuff "death by napkins" is the best entertainment i have had in years...and the micro serve of soup takes the prize>>>what the hell are they thinking.....how are those lesbian loafers going?? have they been eliminated yet
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Collection Cart and Lesbian Loafers
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on which country hick city I am flying to), I work in the 'Premium' cabin....a choice bourne out of sheer survival more so than anything else....so I inevitably have very little contact with my beloved SH Garbage Collection Cart (hereafter 'SHGCC'). Needless to say...in spite of working in the confined J/C galleys of 767 and the hideous A330-200, I still find innovative and novel ways of disposing company property down the garbage chute. For instance, last week, I successively disposed of a bodum plunger down the bin of an A330-200. I was waaaaay too lazy to bend down + open cart door + rearrange J/C trays to accommodate the aforementioned service item...so I did the best OHS thing and tossed the whole bodum (contents and all) into the bin. Mind you, the head rush and 'high' is not exactly the same as putting whole oven racks and other service items down a SHGCC, but the feeling of liberation is still there.
As for the 'Lesbian Loafers'......well, unfortunately, the Black Widow, our patron sponsor, and the inaugral founder of the annual '3 Legged Lesbian Loafer' race in the BNE base has sadly moved into a different management position....therefore, I have been left with the arduos task of promoting Lesbian Loafer usage all by myself. Luckily for me, I have been given my own special stall front at the Warehouse of Excellence, so I can promote the healthy and lifestyle benefits of wearing such soft and comfortable low heeled shoes. I am approaching the OHS department to see whether or not I can get a male version of the Lesbian Loafer released for all our beloved Yen Men to wear. I am currently sourcing a number of suppliers on Oxford Street. Needless to say....'Drag Bag....the Beyond Woman Boutique' has shut down......any ideas anyone????????????
As for the 'Lesbian Loafers'......well, unfortunately, the Black Widow, our patron sponsor, and the inaugral founder of the annual '3 Legged Lesbian Loafer' race in the BNE base has sadly moved into a different management position....therefore, I have been left with the arduos task of promoting Lesbian Loafer usage all by myself. Luckily for me, I have been given my own special stall front at the Warehouse of Excellence, so I can promote the healthy and lifestyle benefits of wearing such soft and comfortable low heeled shoes. I am approaching the OHS department to see whether or not I can get a male version of the Lesbian Loafer released for all our beloved Yen Men to wear. I am currently sourcing a number of suppliers on Oxford Street. Needless to say....'Drag Bag....the Beyond Woman Boutique' has shut down......any ideas anyone????????????
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Pink Fairy Cupcakes
Oh please, excuse the pun....but I would have to say the company's choice of serving pink cupcakes in Y/C takes the icing on the cake. Which Mother's Club Committee Executive approved this service offering? I suspect the work of the local Ladies Auxillary. I've never done this service myself.....but hello!!!!!!!!!!!! has anyone ever heard of packaging???? So they expect us to tong a pink cup cake onto a (much loved and used) napkin and then hand it to the passenger.
Oh God...the next thing they'll have us do is spoon some homemade Mothers Club kumquat jam onto breakfast scones. God help me!!!!!! Get me out of S/H.
So Pegasus747...will you and your LH colleagues grant me as an Asylum Seeker into LH now?????????
Oh God...the next thing they'll have us do is spoon some homemade Mothers Club kumquat jam onto breakfast scones. God help me!!!!!! Get me out of S/H.
So Pegasus747...will you and your LH colleagues grant me as an Asylum Seeker into LH now?????????