Jetstar announces domestic NZ operations
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a viscious cycle... If you try and take a stance and resist accepting such low T&C's then a hundred others accept and leave you miles behind.... Next thing those that took the sh1t offer have 1000hrs jet time or 1000hrs Jet command and can move on to bigger and better things while you're still waiting for conditions to improve.... It's lose - lose if you want to fly jets.
J* Management know it and will be able to fill the seats easily with those at the start of their airline careers, those looking for a quick command and those who've been in the sandpit and made the $$$ who now want a lifestyle.
It's better than GA and it beats working in an office or at McDonalds. And the remuneration is still better than most people will ever earn.....
It's been done before and it will be done again. They always get enough crews somehow
And as some have stated here.... Oh, the irony of it all
J* Management know it and will be able to fill the seats easily with those at the start of their airline careers, those looking for a quick command and those who've been in the sandpit and made the $$$ who now want a lifestyle.
It's better than GA and it beats working in an office or at McDonalds. And the remuneration is still better than most people will ever earn.....
It's been done before and it will be done again. They always get enough crews somehow
And as some have stated here.... Oh, the irony of it all
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I were a J* pilot I'd be wary and consider getting together with your union to vito this so called offer to the mexicans. It will affect you blokes eventually as the domestic agreements transpire.
Interesting reading the comments of gaining 1000hrs then going offshore to make some decent money? Do you fellas wonder why most the guys ahead of you that have already done this earning the big bucks want to come home? Because they live in shyte holes ya numb nuts!! If you take this contract you're a fool. This is a great country but hard to live in on a baggage loaders salary!
I haven't spent 15 years of hard slog and economic hardship to be paid less than an ANZ long haul flight attendant. Insulting! Obviously the rich kids that had daddy pay for their careers don't give a toss about the future of aviation.
Interesting reading the comments of gaining 1000hrs then going offshore to make some decent money? Do you fellas wonder why most the guys ahead of you that have already done this earning the big bucks want to come home? Because they live in shyte holes ya numb nuts!! If you take this contract you're a fool. This is a great country but hard to live in on a baggage loaders salary!
I haven't spent 15 years of hard slog and economic hardship to be paid less than an ANZ long haul flight attendant. Insulting! Obviously the rich kids that had daddy pay for their careers don't give a toss about the future of aviation.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thinks its too late to stop the Jetstar machines march to the frontline!
Jetstar Australia has introduced "Team Jetstar" for cabin crew (slicing T&C's), so I suspect that more changes accross the QF Group are not far away...
Jetstar Australia has introduced "Team Jetstar" for cabin crew (slicing T&C's), so I suspect that more changes accross the QF Group are not far away...
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: ...second left, past the lights.
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Your attention please: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/o...Itemid,85.html - Shiny Jet Syndrome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How true chocks, We're our own worst enemy I'm afraid. To many Jimmies and the airline management know it.
Who'll fly their shinny new jets if we all said no until we're paid an airline pilots salary? No pilots, no big fat bonus. Simple really, but then there's Jimmy. AAaargh!
Who'll fly their shinny new jets if we all said no until we're paid an airline pilots salary? No pilots, no big fat bonus. Simple really, but then there's Jimmy. AAaargh!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NZ
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Dog House
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My name is Horserun and I suffer from SJS.....know me before you judge me!!!!
Im pretty cheap (just ask the Mrs) But Jetstar can get F**ked on this one!! It will be a cold day in hell before fork out $40K+ just to earn $70k
And if any of my mates sell out to those c**ts, your not coming to my boxing day party this year!!
Im pretty cheap (just ask the Mrs) But Jetstar can get F**ked on this one!! It will be a cold day in hell before fork out $40K+ just to earn $70k
And if any of my mates sell out to those c**ts, your not coming to my boxing day party this year!!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chocks away that is a truly entertaining article!
Unfortunately most pilots don't want to stay in GA or regionals. That’s just the way it is and the way it will always be. With $1 fares this has to be the only industry that is continually going backwards. And SJS is basically the reason this continues to happen. Each time an old carrier folds a new one opens up with more and more aggressive Terms and Conditions. It’s nearly a competition to see how low they can set the bar.
Jetstar, Tiger and V Australia will crew every one of their jets regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong. They are in the business of making money and if they can save a dollar on T&C's they will. And now with the meltdown they have the perfect storm for long term minimalist cost bases. Eventually those pilots that were around when conditions were good will eventually retire and the standard will just keep moving down.
I do wonder where the bottom is though. At what point do the people with SJS say "nah that’s f@rked no way!"?
What is the solution? I don't think there is one. I guess most people will keep job hopping in the chance that they eventually will land in something half decent that won’t fold.
I think that eventually to get a decent job eventually most will have to work abroad. US, NZ and Australia will be places people get experience and leave.
Mark my word that if VB fold (and i'm certainly hoping not) some outfit will open up offering those now unemployed a job on half of the VB Terms and Conditions.
Unfortunately most pilots don't want to stay in GA or regionals. That’s just the way it is and the way it will always be. With $1 fares this has to be the only industry that is continually going backwards. And SJS is basically the reason this continues to happen. Each time an old carrier folds a new one opens up with more and more aggressive Terms and Conditions. It’s nearly a competition to see how low they can set the bar.
Jetstar, Tiger and V Australia will crew every one of their jets regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong. They are in the business of making money and if they can save a dollar on T&C's they will. And now with the meltdown they have the perfect storm for long term minimalist cost bases. Eventually those pilots that were around when conditions were good will eventually retire and the standard will just keep moving down.
I do wonder where the bottom is though. At what point do the people with SJS say "nah that’s f@rked no way!"?
What is the solution? I don't think there is one. I guess most people will keep job hopping in the chance that they eventually will land in something half decent that won’t fold.
I think that eventually to get a decent job eventually most will have to work abroad. US, NZ and Australia will be places people get experience and leave.
Mark my word that if VB fold (and i'm certainly hoping not) some outfit will open up offering those now unemployed a job on half of the VB Terms and Conditions.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 5th Mar 2009 at 08:26. Reason: make it easier to read
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So where are these A$#holes going to get pilots if we all don't let them drag the industry into the toilet? It's our industry, all of ours. If we don't accept the shyte contracts they will have to pay the required rate to fly their aircraft. You're right, they're in this to make money. Pretty friken hard if the aircraft are sitting on the ground. Lets all grow some balls and build our industry up not flush it down the toilet. As for the GA guys, thats aviation. Do your time and build some experience. We've all been there.
Don't sell yourselves out. For the sake of waiting a little longer for a good contract the industry will benefit.
Don't sell yourselves out. For the sake of waiting a little longer for a good contract the industry will benefit.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fruet, people are being hired my friend. Sim sessions are being booked.
The one opportunity there was for Aus pilots to stand up and say enough is a-f@rkingnough was from 2006 to mid 2008. Good luck trying to do that now. The VB guys had a crack and voted down the first one. The rest hmm well...
It'll be a time we'll talk about in years to come.
The one opportunity there was for Aus pilots to stand up and say enough is a-f@rkingnough was from 2006 to mid 2008. Good luck trying to do that now. The VB guys had a crack and voted down the first one. The rest hmm well...
It'll be a time we'll talk about in years to come.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I'm afraid I have integrity and a belief in my career I worked so hard to create over the last 15years. If people want to spend $40k to earn $70k and ignore the economics then good luck. Salary sacrifice makes it closer to $55-$60k NZ, thats around $45k AUSD. Thats a crap return on investment wouldn't you all agree? Try and live in Auckland on that!! Good luck, very very hard. Pretty much back in GA. As I've said, It's our industry. We own it. We don't have aircraft that fly passengers around the world by themselves. WE FLY THEM. If we band together and don't fly them then we all earn more than McDonalds wages. The only winners here are the management laughing all the way to the bank.
J* quote market rates as remuneration. It's not market rates. Current market rates for an FO are
AirNZ A320 $107k
Pac Blue $91k
Jetconnect $89k
We are talking about 180 seat jet here not an ATR. It's a friken joke!
J* quote market rates as remuneration. It's not market rates. Current market rates for an FO are
AirNZ A320 $107k
Pac Blue $91k
Jetconnect $89k
We are talking about 180 seat jet here not an ATR. It's a friken joke!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
whats the end game here
Hi i read all you guys have written here.I lost my job on A320 due to the economic crisis.i was with a reputable airline as an FO training to be on left seat in 6 months.Have close to 2000 hrs.Now no job and a morgage to pay,family kids going to school. Also i was earning 108000US$ as FO working 70 hours a month .anything over get overtime till January. Now almost 2 months since last flight. i also work hard like many of you in the Flying school,charter ,joy flights etc.It took 11 years to get to an Airbus A320 was hard work to get there did not had the SJS .because it was a step by step progress .
Now all of a sudden after reaching in the cockpit with very good expereince I mean real flying expereince and the knowledge gained from last 15 years of flying and now not having the Job is tough.
and when Jetstar is taking pilots and paying what you said in the forum which comes to less than half what i was earning till few weeks back.
Choice is simple take it or leave it. i believe i have seen enough in the last two decades to make that decision if i ever apply to jetstar and they offer me a job.
in short everyones situation is different you cant single people out because they accepted an offer because as an Aviator i know what my responsibilities are and my expereince in the cockpit will be good for the money paying passengers because YOU AND I ALL OWE TO THE PEOPLE. I MEAN THE CUSTOMERS WHO PAY AND FLY KEEPS US IN THE JOBS.
so rather than all of us getting upset about things and thinking with out brains.try to find alternates as a TEAM.
good luck to you all
viking
Now all of a sudden after reaching in the cockpit with very good expereince I mean real flying expereince and the knowledge gained from last 15 years of flying and now not having the Job is tough.
and when Jetstar is taking pilots and paying what you said in the forum which comes to less than half what i was earning till few weeks back.
Choice is simple take it or leave it. i believe i have seen enough in the last two decades to make that decision if i ever apply to jetstar and they offer me a job.
in short everyones situation is different you cant single people out because they accepted an offer because as an Aviator i know what my responsibilities are and my expereince in the cockpit will be good for the money paying passengers because YOU AND I ALL OWE TO THE PEOPLE. I MEAN THE CUSTOMERS WHO PAY AND FLY KEEPS US IN THE JOBS.
so rather than all of us getting upset about things and thinking with out brains.try to find alternates as a TEAM.
good luck to you all
viking
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Za farzer land
Age: 53
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Viking, i appreciate what you are saying and my heart goes out to you and your family and your situation. Have you ever worked in NZ? Do you know the cost of living etc? Do you also know what the average salary is in NZ? If you were to take this job with a mortgage and kids in school in NZ you would have to either get a second job or send your wife out to work. Don't all be shortsighted here. You would earn more money as a labourer on a building site.
Stick together people. We are professionals worth professional salaries.
If you want to work a second job to support your family and mortgage then take this Jet* job, It'll guarantee this, it'll keep distroying the pay and flushing our industry down the toilet. Then once the industry is back and booming in the States you can return home and leave us guys earning the shyte money. That'll solve everything won't it.
I'm not going to win this arguement, it's just friken wrong and gets my back up. I guess I'll be retired by the time it reaches rock bottom. Good luck to the new guys coming through.
Stick together people. We are professionals worth professional salaries.
If you want to work a second job to support your family and mortgage then take this Jet* job, It'll guarantee this, it'll keep distroying the pay and flushing our industry down the toilet. Then once the industry is back and booming in the States you can return home and leave us guys earning the shyte money. That'll solve everything won't it.
I'm not going to win this arguement, it's just friken wrong and gets my back up. I guess I'll be retired by the time it reaches rock bottom. Good luck to the new guys coming through.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Jupiter
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For anyone whos interested. If I had stayed in in my old job on my old salary (which has increased) and used the 30,000 $A (36000nz) plus all my holiday and loss of income spent on endorsement training-and used that to by a house. even with the housing market the way it is now I would still be way in front.and have a house. whats more Auckland is outrageously expensive. Try saving for a house deposit on those conditions. I'd be hanging out at least until they are prepared to pay for the training.
-remember companys still reserve the right to fail your training- not a great scenario. Checks somehow seem to get harder when theres a recession and the industry is shrinking. If they want you to invest in yours and their futures they should give you shares
A good lawyer should be able to show you are investing capital into the company"s start up costs (you too PB boys)
-remember companys still reserve the right to fail your training- not a great scenario. Checks somehow seem to get harder when theres a recession and the industry is shrinking. If they want you to invest in yours and their futures they should give you shares
A good lawyer should be able to show you are investing capital into the company"s start up costs (you too PB boys)
If anyone DOES sign on for this, i'll give em 3 months before they are up in arms whinging primarily about the coin and how expensive AKL is. I doub't you'll be getting any hearts bleeding for you from your fellow Oz based (and CHC) crew.
Read the fine print fella's, as you know what you've signed on for!
Read the fine print fella's, as you know what you've signed on for!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
I disagree as some have said that it's a vicious cycle re: terms and conditions. Life is what you make of it people, and if you go to those lesser conditions so be it! Personally I delayed my career progression to make more financially rewarding positions but as it seems many are not! 11 years for me to a jet and still don't regret a minute of it