Qantas Link in Crisis again....now its for Captains!
Bubble Head, 42 DAYS is a PARTIAL compensation. It DOES NOT make up for the things such as weekends being normal workdays etc. It is a shift compensator, but all other shiftworkers receive shift loadings etc, pilots and cabin crew don't. That is why 8 days is unacceptable, 10 is barely there and 12 is better. Whether the company uses Sabre, Geneva, Kronos or ADOPT, ALL of these programs can ensure maximum utilisation, IF the company is well run. On SH/Regional routes, Pilots should easily be able to do 25 hrs a week in a 4 day week, or equivelent Reserve coverage. It just needs the PILOTS to INSIST on PRODUCTIVITY- which is supposed to be the purpose of GOOD management - in the EBA. The means is readily available, speak with the rostering program people, you will find that for maximum productivity AND flexibility a 14-15 day window is the best, which obviously then allows 2-3 Reserves per month. Find out the facts! No wonder the profession is degrading with these sort of thought processes!! (NB Not aimed at Bubble in particular but ALL WHO THINK LIKE THAT). Same with single days off- UNACCEPTABLE 
Last edited by clear to land; 16th Oct 2009 at 12:35.
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To the bloke complaining about the ETA. Slowing down to the speeds you mentioned at 10 miles should make at the most 1 to 2 minutes difference to the ETA. Lets hope you don't come across any real problems in aviation. By the way, GPS is hardly wizz bang gear these days.
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Whether the 3-5 day trip/duty is temporary or not, it needs to be incorporated in the next EBA, otherwise, were just going to see it happen again. The company will wind the big trips down soon, hope we have forgotten about it by next year, once the new EBA is signed off, they are free to start sending us away for days at a time, once again... And we are back to square one..!!! There has to be some sort of compensation for it in the next EBA.
I was of the understanding that if you do 6 days straight, you are supposed to have 2 days off at the start and at the end, unless you specifically bid otherwise. Rostering know this and Geneva should do it automatically.
I dont believe that as soon as you submit a roster bid it removes any roster protection. In fact I think you will find it may be the opposite. If you dont bid, you have basically no protection, and you could end up with the roster from hell. If you do bid, and do what most people do, bid for the weekends that you want off, then you should, by all means get that weekend off, of course, based on seniority etc etc..... I think the clause in the EBA says that if you dont bid, you will still get a weekend off "where practicable", or something to that nature. But we all know this rarely happens. Moral of the story-- bid for what you want. Thats what it is there for.
Regardless of this EBA, which is absolute rubbish, and should never have got up. The next EBA and pilot council needs some serious change.
I was of the understanding that if you do 6 days straight, you are supposed to have 2 days off at the start and at the end, unless you specifically bid otherwise. Rostering know this and Geneva should do it automatically.
I dont believe that as soon as you submit a roster bid it removes any roster protection. In fact I think you will find it may be the opposite. If you dont bid, you have basically no protection, and you could end up with the roster from hell. If you do bid, and do what most people do, bid for the weekends that you want off, then you should, by all means get that weekend off, of course, based on seniority etc etc..... I think the clause in the EBA says that if you dont bid, you will still get a weekend off "where practicable", or something to that nature. But we all know this rarely happens. Moral of the story-- bid for what you want. Thats what it is there for.
Regardless of this EBA, which is absolute rubbish, and should never have got up. The next EBA and pilot council needs some serious change.
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Think you will find that the single day off is only in the Eastern EBA.
In the Sunstate EBA you can only be given a single day off if it is addition to your normal paired eight days off. So most sunstate pilots get 9 days off each or every secong roster.
This does change if you request, but only if you request for a certain day off. Not and early start or late finish.
In the Sunstate EBA you can only be given a single day off if it is addition to your normal paired eight days off. So most sunstate pilots get 9 days off each or every secong roster.
This does change if you request, but only if you request for a certain day off. Not and early start or late finish.
No where does it say that bids remove the clause that says you have to have 2 paired days preceding and following 6 days of work. That's just the bull**** excuse that is given for incompetent rostering practices. Even if you bid for 3 consecutive DDO, that doesn't mean they can do it. Worst case they can spread more single days throughout, even though that is also pathetic.
If you get rostered 6 days on, MAKE SURE YOU GET 2 PAIRED DDO'S ON EITHER SIDE OR YOU ARE LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH A BREACH OF THE EBA!!! DON'T BE SOFT!!
Friction Nut - exactly. It doesn't matter whether the 3-5 day trips are temporary or not, the problem is that they're pulling something now that isn't in the EBA, but can technically be rostered because there is nothing that prevents it. Next EBA MUST have something to grant additional days off if more than X consecutive overnights are rostered in a row.
Then there's the meal issue....
If you get rostered 6 days on, MAKE SURE YOU GET 2 PAIRED DDO'S ON EITHER SIDE OR YOU ARE LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH A BREACH OF THE EBA!!! DON'T BE SOFT!!
Friction Nut - exactly. It doesn't matter whether the 3-5 day trips are temporary or not, the problem is that they're pulling something now that isn't in the EBA, but can technically be rostered because there is nothing that prevents it. Next EBA MUST have something to grant additional days off if more than X consecutive overnights are rostered in a row.
Then there's the meal issue....
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You need to ask the CHAIR of the pilot council what deals he's doing behind your back to vary the EBA without your approval? (meals and breaks, Dragun)
Now that you guys are doing multi day trips, is the company providing you with transport to and from work (as you're entitled to under your EBA)?
Whoever wrote that a reserve day is like a day off here needs his head read! It is a duty day (but Eastern don't count it as duty unless you're allocated flying on the day). You are available on 2 hours call. Just because you might not get called does NOT mean it's the same as a day off! You have still been available and within 2 hours of the airport.
The current rostering system you have agreed to has knobs on it, and is unworkable from a lifestyle point of view with only 8 days off in 28. The only way it can work is to have extra days off to allow for requests and "rotation" (as the rostering guru's call it) and to avoid single days off. Otherwise, you're gonna end up with the ****load of 6 days on with single days off that you're getting now (to allow for "rotation", as the rostering guru's call it)!
Tell them to sit on it and "rotate" at your next EBA.
Now that you guys are doing multi day trips, is the company providing you with transport to and from work (as you're entitled to under your EBA)?
Whoever wrote that a reserve day is like a day off here needs his head read! It is a duty day (but Eastern don't count it as duty unless you're allocated flying on the day). You are available on 2 hours call. Just because you might not get called does NOT mean it's the same as a day off! You have still been available and within 2 hours of the airport.
The current rostering system you have agreed to has knobs on it, and is unworkable from a lifestyle point of view with only 8 days off in 28. The only way it can work is to have extra days off to allow for requests and "rotation" (as the rostering guru's call it) and to avoid single days off. Otherwise, you're gonna end up with the ****load of 6 days on with single days off that you're getting now (to allow for "rotation", as the rostering guru's call it)!
Tell them to sit on it and "rotate" at your next EBA.
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Oh yes, the meal issue... Has anyone seen this apparent letter of understanding between the company and the federation about the cold meal issue whilst flying out of brisbane...? I dont imagine so... This is all going too far. They are really taking advantage of our good nature now... Its got to change.
And the issue of 9 hour duties with a 3 and a half hour break in the middle... For goodness sake.
And the issue of 9 hour duties with a 3 and a half hour break in the middle... For goodness sake.
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Gee, you guys need to get a grip. I didn't say it counted as a designated day off. I said it usually ends up being a day off, on top of your days off. So Dragun, I can see how it might have read as being a designated day off but I meant a bonus day off. Who doesn't like bonus days off?
UDH, wow, you put a lot of effort into that post didn't you. You don't know me so don't write that trash on here about me. If you don't like getting bonus days off well maybe you should quit. To me it is quite IDEAL to get extra days off on top of my RDOs. So what if you have to stay close to home. Plan to do things on your days off like normal people. Or are you better than normal people?
UDH, wow, you put a lot of effort into that post didn't you. You don't know me so don't write that trash on here about me. If you don't like getting bonus days off well maybe you should quit. To me it is quite IDEAL to get extra days off on top of my RDOs. So what if you have to stay close to home. Plan to do things on your days off like normal people. Or are you better than normal people?
Agreed. Since when do EAA pilot's have to accept cold breakfasts and dinners in Brisbane because the SSA says that's all they get? Last time I checked, we're entitled to hot meals, whether we're sent to Brisbane or not. Keep putting those meal vouchers in people.
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[QUOTE = Hugh Jarse] Whoever wrote that a reserve day is like a day off here needs his head read! It is a duty day (but Eastern don't count it as duty unless you're allocated flying on the day). You are available on 2 hours call. Just because you might not get called does NOT mean it's the same as a day off! [/quote]
Hugh, under CAO 48 it is a day off if you do not get a duty, ie. you are not logging duty or flight time so it don't register towards anything.
You can work 5 days, have a reserve day on the 6th, not get a duty on the reserve day and work another 6 days straight (if you elect to take a call out or whatever) by the CAO.
That is how some crewing departments seem to view it, they would love to ring you at the end of your reserve period and tell you that you have just had a day off !
Hugh, under CAO 48 it is a day off if you do not get a duty, ie. you are not logging duty or flight time so it don't register towards anything.
You can work 5 days, have a reserve day on the 6th, not get a duty on the reserve day and work another 6 days straight (if you elect to take a call out or whatever) by the CAO.
That is how some crewing departments seem to view it, they would love to ring you at the end of your reserve period and tell you that you have just had a day off !
Last edited by Spikey21; 17th Oct 2009 at 13:50.
Maloo
Sorry buddy, but if you believe that then please don't vote on next years EBA. Just because you don't get called, doesn't mean it's a 'bonus day off'. Could you jump on a jet to Cairns on this 'bonus day off' of yours? Can you turn your phone off on this 'bonus day off'? Can you go out drinking the night before and know for a fact you don't have to go to work at 6am the next day? It is NOT a day off. It's a day that you have to sit by your phone and be within a 2 hour sign on time at work.
I think your point is misconstrued with the fact that not getting called on a reserve day is a relief that you actually didn't have to to go into work and fly. Whilst this IS better than having to physically go into work, it's still not a day off. Please don't view it at such because in the end, we deserve better than a measly 8 DDO. If people just accept changes to rostering practices (e.g. 3-5 day trips) without any changes to the number of days off to compensate, then the lifestyle will get even worse.
I think that maybe if you were called every reserve day for a 6+ hour shift then your view would change slightly....don't be fooled into thinking that this can't happen. It's dependent on crewing levels, the amount of flying and just how lucky you are on that particular day.
Sorry buddy, but if you believe that then please don't vote on next years EBA. Just because you don't get called, doesn't mean it's a 'bonus day off'. Could you jump on a jet to Cairns on this 'bonus day off' of yours? Can you turn your phone off on this 'bonus day off'? Can you go out drinking the night before and know for a fact you don't have to go to work at 6am the next day? It is NOT a day off. It's a day that you have to sit by your phone and be within a 2 hour sign on time at work.
I think your point is misconstrued with the fact that not getting called on a reserve day is a relief that you actually didn't have to to go into work and fly. Whilst this IS better than having to physically go into work, it's still not a day off. Please don't view it at such because in the end, we deserve better than a measly 8 DDO. If people just accept changes to rostering practices (e.g. 3-5 day trips) without any changes to the number of days off to compensate, then the lifestyle will get even worse.
I think that maybe if you were called every reserve day for a 6+ hour shift then your view would change slightly....don't be fooled into thinking that this can't happen. It's dependent on crewing levels, the amount of flying and just how lucky you are on that particular day.
Last edited by Dragun; 17th Oct 2009 at 22:12.
Come back and tell us what you think of your "bonus days off" once everyone starts leaving again, and "productivity" is back where management would like it. When they start putting out rosters again that have un-crewed duties just so that it appears that they have reserve coverage, guaranteeing you will have a duty on your reserve day.
It will happen again...
It will happen again...
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Some very interesting points have been raised, but is our pilot council competent and strong enough to fight for what we deserve or will they buckle again and bent over for the management? Our last EBA was the perfect time to increase our T&C, yet nothing was done. Maybe it's time for a new group to be appointed?
Hugh, under CAO 48 it is a day off if you do not get a duty, ie. you are not logging duty or flight time so it don't register towards anything.
You can work 5 days, have a reserve day on the 6th, not get a duty on the reserve day and work another 6 days straight (if you elect to take a call out or whatever) by the CAO.
You can work 5 days, have a reserve day on the 6th, not get a duty on the reserve day and work another 6 days straight (if you elect to take a call out or whatever) by the CAO.
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So what are Eastern pilots doing north of the border anyway - cold meals and all? There are heaps of Sunstate crews sitting around on reserve, in uniform, with phone in one hand, car keys in the other, mentally running through recall items waiting for the call up.
If Brisbane needs more crews than get some vacancies advertised and fix the problem, flying crews around other bases is very expensive and does nothing to help morale on both sides of the EBA divide.
If Brisbane needs more crews than get some vacancies advertised and fix the problem, flying crews around other bases is very expensive and does nothing to help morale on both sides of the EBA divide.
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Be careful in what you wish for Roger.
I am all for vacancies being advertised in Brisbane, but this will then highlight the real problem. That there are more captains in Melbourne and First officers in Sydney that the company needs. This is why Brisbane crew have been sitting on reserve so much...to help hide that fact.
I am all for vacancies being advertised in Brisbane, but this will then highlight the real problem. That there are more captains in Melbourne and First officers in Sydney that the company needs. This is why Brisbane crew have been sitting on reserve so much...to help hide that fact.