Vaus Wants To Delay Orders
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Lets get one thing straight.... VB VA & PB are separate companies - when it suits BG & co. When it doesn't suit, they are the same.
How do you thing VA will get off the ground without finance & backing from VB. VB will not let VA sink, as long as BG is at the helm - BG will sink every $ into making it work till it all comes crashing down (hopefully not!).
The Chef
How do you thing VA will get off the ground without finance & backing from VB. VB will not let VA sink, as long as BG is at the helm - BG will sink every $ into making it work till it all comes crashing down (hopefully not!).
The Chef
Join Date: Jun 2008
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mates rates: "VA VB and PB are all seen as separate companies.If VA is not viable on it's own it will be cut loose rather than drag VB down with it."
The vast majority of pax wouldn't know if they flew on Pac Blue or Virgin Blue. To them it's all the same, especially when a Pac Blue 737 operates a DJ route. Virgin Blue and the media has spun Vaus to be the international arm of Virgin Blue. They are not all seen as separate companies, and the elimination of one will cause lack of market confidence in the rest.
If BG and the execs at DJ had an effective way of cutting their losses with Vaus, they probably would have. But they've come this far, purchases the aircraft, employed and trained the crew, advertised the service and even the facilities (sim). They have to launch, and the plan they are using to overcome the present industry issues, is to delay the delivery of additional aircraft and services.
The vast majority of pax wouldn't know if they flew on Pac Blue or Virgin Blue. To them it's all the same, especially when a Pac Blue 737 operates a DJ route. Virgin Blue and the media has spun Vaus to be the international arm of Virgin Blue. They are not all seen as separate companies, and the elimination of one will cause lack of market confidence in the rest.
If BG and the execs at DJ had an effective way of cutting their losses with Vaus, they probably would have. But they've come this far, purchases the aircraft, employed and trained the crew, advertised the service and even the facilities (sim). They have to launch, and the plan they are using to overcome the present industry issues, is to delay the delivery of additional aircraft and services.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Pylet,
I'm sure what you say is close to the mark, but what are they going to do when the cash flow shortfall draws down on Virgin's cash reserves. There's a point where they must protect the domestic business from collapse. Cash is king - without it, they're stuffed.
It's an untenable situation in a very depressed economic environment.
I'm sure what you say is close to the mark, but what are they going to do when the cash flow shortfall draws down on Virgin's cash reserves. There's a point where they must protect the domestic business from collapse. Cash is king - without it, they're stuffed.
It's an untenable situation in a very depressed economic environment.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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which of you rocket scientists actually knows what virgins cash position is, whether they have positive cashflow at present, what the break even load factor is for Vaus, what the forward sales are telling management, what effect oil dropping to $40 a barrell has had on the business plan, and then what the combination of all those things have on the Virgin Blue group.
If all you geniuses were running the biggest companies in the world at present, they would all be filing for bankruptcy because the outlook is scary.
It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies. If Richard Branson ran and hid every time he faced difficult tiimes, Virgin would still be a record store in a basement in London.
If Vaus is a viable company, there is plenty of money in the wings to fund it for the short term. If it is not, it will be sold or wound up and life will go on. One thing is certain, it will be given a chance. They have come too far to pull the plug just because the financial environment has changed. In fact, high oil prices were a far higher threat than the credit crunch. If oil had continued to climb, i would say Vaus would be dead in the water as we speak.
If all you geniuses were running the biggest companies in the world at present, they would all be filing for bankruptcy because the outlook is scary.
It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies. If Richard Branson ran and hid every time he faced difficult tiimes, Virgin would still be a record store in a basement in London.
If Vaus is a viable company, there is plenty of money in the wings to fund it for the short term. If it is not, it will be sold or wound up and life will go on. One thing is certain, it will be given a chance. They have come too far to pull the plug just because the financial environment has changed. In fact, high oil prices were a far higher threat than the credit crunch. If oil had continued to climb, i would say Vaus would be dead in the water as we speak.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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6100
Like your optimism - Hope the reality matches it.
As far as cash reserves go, 4 or 5 hundred million dollars won't go far in the longer term if it has to support both the VA and domestic operations.
Like your optimism - Hope the reality matches it.
As far as cash reserves go, 4 or 5 hundred million dollars won't go far in the longer term if it has to support both the VA and domestic operations.
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abc1 - I have held an ATP for over 30 years and NEVER paid for an endorsement.
I have also been VERY lucky to be continuously employed over that time - believe me it ain't rancor - just what I believe to be an honest assessment of the mess that Virgin now finds itself in.
I'm sure you'll agree we are all entitled to an opinion.
I have also been VERY lucky to be continuously employed over that time - believe me it ain't rancor - just what I believe to be an honest assessment of the mess that Virgin now finds itself in.
I'm sure you'll agree we are all entitled to an opinion.
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If all you geniuses were running the biggest companies in the world at present, they would all be filing for bankruptcy because the outlook is scary.
It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies.
It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
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VB management are seeking a meeting with the pilot reps to look at how they can manage the excess of 737 F/O's. The credit crisis is starting to hit lads. But there is plenty of work at PB and VAUS (oh maybe not, aircraft orders being delayed). Its going to get ugly very quickly, but management keep putting out emails to staff saying ignore the media, yet on the other hand we get emails from management saying we need your help to avoid redunancies.
The parcel is starting to unfold. They don't want to make people redundant yet I don't believe they can carry excess staff for too much longer (some F/Os are being rostered 4 months of reserve in a row), this will really put the wind up the shareholders now and set the media off into a further spin, this is how it all begins, this is what happened to AN, it starts off as little warnings here and there and everyone goes into denial for awhile, then the snowball effect begins and critical mass is reached in a very short period of time.
1600,
V as a group is wasting so much cash at the moment it must be hurting them. Vaus has been delayed and staff are being paid. Aircraft orders are being delay, both the 777 and EMB. They have too many pilots at VB yet not enough at PB. They cannot crew the EMB because pilots don't want to shift bases to Perth and Sydney, they have pilots on 4 months of reserve yet calling them out on their RDO's for a call out payment. They have 18 empty red seats on most flights, which means on average, one in every ten aircraft is flying around empty (no wonder the load factors have reduced, its not just the credit crisis), Live to Air has been a flop, and remains a flop (system faults galore), the EMB dispatch rate has been questionable, ask any engineer!
I want this airline to make billions of dollars, it has such a great potential and such great staff working here, yet the $50M savings they want to make is staring at them in the face. Stop having birthday parties and xmas parties, stop giving EMT's 17% payrises, get rid of this Vitality crap etc etc etc.
This is all a real worry!
The parcel is starting to unfold. They don't want to make people redundant yet I don't believe they can carry excess staff for too much longer (some F/Os are being rostered 4 months of reserve in a row), this will really put the wind up the shareholders now and set the media off into a further spin, this is how it all begins, this is what happened to AN, it starts off as little warnings here and there and everyone goes into denial for awhile, then the snowball effect begins and critical mass is reached in a very short period of time.
1600,
V as a group is wasting so much cash at the moment it must be hurting them. Vaus has been delayed and staff are being paid. Aircraft orders are being delay, both the 777 and EMB. They have too many pilots at VB yet not enough at PB. They cannot crew the EMB because pilots don't want to shift bases to Perth and Sydney, they have pilots on 4 months of reserve yet calling them out on their RDO's for a call out payment. They have 18 empty red seats on most flights, which means on average, one in every ten aircraft is flying around empty (no wonder the load factors have reduced, its not just the credit crisis), Live to Air has been a flop, and remains a flop (system faults galore), the EMB dispatch rate has been questionable, ask any engineer!
I want this airline to make billions of dollars, it has such a great potential and such great staff working here, yet the $50M savings they want to make is staring at them in the face. Stop having birthday parties and xmas parties, stop giving EMT's 17% payrises, get rid of this Vitality crap etc etc etc.
This is all a real worry!
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Empty Red Seats
I have caught 3 x VB flights and 3 x Jetstar flights in the last month. The load factor in the general seats seemed similar, however in the 3 VB flights I did not see one person sit in the premium economy seats.
It looked a bit ridiculous for the last third of the pax to board as the back of the aircraft was full but there was all this vacant real estate up the front.
Does anyone ever sit on in the red seats?
It will be interesting to go over the VB end of financial year report soon to see how the last 1/2 compared to the first 1/2.
It looked a bit ridiculous for the last third of the pax to board as the back of the aircraft was full but there was all this vacant real estate up the front.
Does anyone ever sit on in the red seats?
It will be interesting to go over the VB end of financial year report soon to see how the last 1/2 compared to the first 1/2.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I'm no expert but there has been so many errors over the last couple of years. The failure of the 'Blue Room'(had to be made over & relaunched as 'The Lounge'; targeting suits not backpackers), the failure of Live to Air, the failure of the premium economy product(had to relaunch it with free food & drinks), reliability of the Ejets, fuel hedging compared with the competition, problems with over crewing, & mismanagement with PB crew numbers & retention. Everything DD previously said is true, including the massive bonuses an elite few received as well as huge pay increases for the top guys & spending ridiculous amounts of cash on parties around the country. I do not know if they get market opinions & surveys of what the consumer wants or just go along with one persons dream of what he wants the airline to be like. I too loved what the airline was capable of. It seems it went well riding on the failure of Ansett but that was on the cards to outsiders long before it went downhill. Now maybe a change of leadership may work better. I'm sure shareholders are thinking along similar lines...what's the price again.
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Lets just wait and see what the loads are like when it gets up and running in Feb/Mar 09. I am sure there are plenty of pax willing to give VA a try because they are the new kid on the block. They have been shafted for years by QF and UA offering a rather average product on one of the longest sectors. Finally QF have the 380's and they will be running head to head against the 777's both far superior products to the aging 747's that have been used on the route.
I believe that next year UA will pull out of the route all together and leave it to the two Aussie carriers to battle it out. QF will be happy for the competition and will give VA a percentage of the market just like they allowed DJ to take just a tad over 30% of the domestic scene.
Competition allows the employer to instill some fear in the employees and give them some leverage when its time to negotiate pay. QF needs VA to survive so it can continue to cut costs on its LH dept.
I believe that next year UA will pull out of the route all together and leave it to the two Aussie carriers to battle it out. QF will be happy for the competition and will give VA a percentage of the market just like they allowed DJ to take just a tad over 30% of the domestic scene.
Competition allows the employer to instill some fear in the employees and give them some leverage when its time to negotiate pay. QF needs VA to survive so it can continue to cut costs on its LH dept.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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no doubt VA will be a good product. If it wasn't for the strike in the US, the VA product could be the saving break VB is looking for. Its long overdue. Unfortunately it is now bleeding money from its delay. Once it's up & going it will be successful. Its a pity its been delayed.
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Fly in the ointment ?
How will the announcement by Delta (that they are to operate ATL - LAX - SYD) in the new year, effect the thought process' at B******t Castle ?
Now they'll be up against three operators each with good oncarriage from the US end. They are now up against Oneworld & Star Alliance and have no useful connections with anyone at the U.S. end.
Not looking good at all !!!
Cut it loose now or lose the lot ??
Now they'll be up against three operators each with good oncarriage from the US end. They are now up against Oneworld & Star Alliance and have no useful connections with anyone at the U.S. end.
Not looking good at all !!!
Cut it loose now or lose the lot ??
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"...no useful connections..."
Despite the distant relationship between VAus and the rest of the Virgin branding, surely Virgin America would provide those useful connections from LA.
Would seem to make sense to me, but then again, good sense and aviation sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive 
Despite the distant relationship between VAus and the rest of the Virgin branding, surely Virgin America would provide those useful connections from LA.
Would seem to make sense to me, but then again, good sense and aviation sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive
Many people here in the States go on the mighty dollar so if the pricing is right and the product is available on the many discount websites then who knows.
I'm mighty troubled by the possible Delta product invading Oz (but thats a personal issue) and up til now thought the V Oz product would be a success based on the competition from QF and United. Don't know about now.
Hope the folks at Virgin have got some wiley marketing ploys up their collective sleeves.
I'm mighty troubled by the possible Delta product invading Oz (but thats a personal issue) and up til now thought the V Oz product would be a success based on the competition from QF and United. Don't know about now.
Hope the folks at Virgin have got some wiley marketing ploys up their collective sleeves.