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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 13:32
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Will never happen!
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 20:21
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Sigh...at this rate we should rename this thread 'Why RAAF pilots are leaving'.

A sign of any organisations ability to make real, lasting cultural change is the ability to make hard decisions when times are good. (Its easier when its bad, because you are forced to) Air Force HQ has failed this test and will continue to fail it. Binnie will not save you, he is the product of the same system that produced the rest of the system maintainers. The pathetic retention bonus that was thrown at everyone at years start and the dead in the water pilot retention review are clear signs of this.

Remember the good times, there's no point worrying and making yourself upset. If you got out, make the most of your new life. If you didn't and are waiting to leave, don't worry, all recessions end. If you do stay, then maybe, just maybe, you'll have the balls to do what needs to be done.
Loiter has it right. The system is broken due to neglect and the current lot are for the status quo and will jump on anyone who has ideas for real change. The underlying principal of RAAF career management remains sound however. Pump 100 pilots through to make 50 SQNLDR QFIs/FCIs/SMEs to make 20 WGCDR COs to make 10 Groupies to make 6 AIRCDREs to make 3 AVMs for 1 CAF. If 20 of the 100 are civilians or reservists, not destined for higher rank, then the CAF gene pool is diluted and SOME positions up the chain end up being manned by people who shouldn't be there and who make decisions which make the retention problem worse. Anyone else know of a few ex RAAF/RAF guys, now in the airlines who would shake up the service and put it back on the straight and narrow through vision accompanied by an ability to work ridiculously hard?

My suggestion is to restore the attractiveness of the position of CO of a flying squadron. Once again make it the dream job for a pilot in the RAAF/RAF (if it wasn't yours then you are part of the 50 - nothing wrong with that btw). Lavish publicity and cred on the flying squadrons and make them where people want to be (not just pilots). Eventually (and this will take time since so much goodwill has been squandered for so long) junior pilots will see it as a credible alternative to the airlines and there will be a draw through effect. You will get a situation where the Pers staff will have a real choice of people to fill positions. i.e. a healthy, competitive system.

Also I would ask why civilian airline guys would want to fly military? Take the reasons gathered and PR the s@#$ out of them.
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 21:05
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a very badly misplaced sense of humour
ahhh come on Fubaar, lighten up, it may be weak and not very clever but badly misplaced? It's not that serious an issue is it? The day Ausi military guys/gals can't take a bit of ribbing is the day that it really is not worth joining, it was the thing i enjoyed most in my eight years with the RAAF as an Engo. Have a laugh mate. Framer.
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 21:35
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and SOME positions up the chain end up being manned by people who shouldn't be there
We must make sure that never happens!
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 22:50
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then the CAF gene pool is diluted and SOME positions up the chain end up being manned by people who shouldn't be there and who make decisions which make the retention problem worse
Not sure if I agree with your maths there - if you need less full time pilots to begin with (and fill the other slots with reservists), then the pool is concentrated. You can be more selective in recruitment and build a stronger pool of candidates for higher rank.

Not that the outcome is different - with due respect to my friends still in, we ex-servies often laugh that the service is the "Best of what's left"!
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 23:12
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ex-servies often laugh that the service is the "Best of what's left"!

...and reservists are there to do a job, not because they need one!
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 23:48
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Typical from the polies. Avoid the real issue,that of investment and re-investment to sustain the long term pool of trained/skilled staff.
Might as well enlist every member of the population to serve once a month at the outposts of freedom(tax free).
Bollox really.
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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 23:53
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Icarus,

I agree that if you could identify the 'SQNLDR 50' from the start then the rest of the slots could be filled with line drivers. This is not that easy when you consider that some bograts don't know what they want to do after lunch let alone after their ROSO is up, some die or become similarly mortally challenged, some will make the best CO since Guy Gibson in their own minds (or recruiting's) but can't deliver, some will change their minds. So, by necessity, a larger than necessary pool is thrown into the melting pot of bograthood with the hope that a ruggedly handsome, handlebar mustachioed, fire breathing, lead-from-the-front, benign dictator with a grasp of Equal Employment Opportunity legislation, Commanding Officer emerges from the fray. I have to say that they did and in some cases still do, exist but this mechanism is not in good working order today. Isn't one of the ideas of ADFA to identify this cream of future leaders? Ask those boys today what they're doing when their time is up.

By the way, backhand insults, disguised as banter, directed towards the guys who are still in only depresses the dedicated and makes the d1ckheads look around for who the dead wood could be. i.e. makes the problem worse. It's one thing to be critical but I think the RAAF is worth saving as it has a proud history and an honorable purpose. Any suggestions?
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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 03:09
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There is a can not attitude in Defence. If Australia was ever to go to war, assets such as tankers and AWACs need high numbers of crews- look at USAF Gulf War hours for reservists on transports etc.
Gnadenburg, Mate,

Pretty sure we ARE at war - well at least that's what my mates in the Gulf say... and the parents of the dead Aussie soldiers would probably agree. FFS we ARE doing the job now!
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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 03:24
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allthecool, whilst I don't dispute your notion of the country being at war with the Taliban, I would dispute that it's the type of example that Gnadenburg was talking about.

When we have our fighter force involved in sustained operations against the enemy and the entire of the ADF committed to supporting fighting it- rather than just the various 'elements' that are doing it now- then I'll believe that we're fighting the type of war that Gnadenburg is alluding too. I also suspect that any sustained operations will indicate how poorly we're set up to actually fight that type of conflict.
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Old 3rd Dec 2008, 03:57
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There's two different arguments here. One is what to do in a surge - all hands to the pumps - and the second is how to sustain the core capabilities - what has been done in the RAAF for at least the last 36 years. In the first case it is reasonable that a current B737 guy (ex-RAAF) could undertake a differences course and get on with it. The trouble at the moment is the second argument - the supply of the guys who would run all the aspects of the differences course - FLTCDRs, QFIs, COs. The right people don't want to run the show.
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