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AIPA or AFAP FOR JETSTAR

Old 15th Sep 2008, 08:20
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Zed
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AIPA or AFAP FOR JETSTAR

A vote is under way.

Which union should back the Jetstar Pilot Group.
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 09:05
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is that why the AFAP has been ignoring all other members recently ?
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 09:28
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Interesting news. In what forum is this vote being held and who is voting? Sounds a little surreal to me.
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 09:40
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I heard AIPA was doing some roadshows.
Has anyone got a list of where and when?
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 23:14
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As a current AFAP member I have to say I am most appaled by the representation they have provided. I have voted for AIPA and can only hope for a brighter future. Sorry AFAP but my union dollars are going elsewhere!
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 04:47
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As far as Union dues go, AIPA charge less than AFAP!
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 05:01
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is that why the AFAP has been ignoring all other members recently ?
Its been a long time since they (AFAP) have provided any form of assistance isn't it?

Why would any one choose the AFAP as representation, maybe LOL, thats about it.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 07:50
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There are some issues with the AFAP, but JQ Pilots should think twice about jumping into bed with the AIPA.

If industrial events were unfold to a situation where 2000 plus QF pilots have to vote on an issue that has adverse implications for JQ pilots, does anyone honestly believe that the AIPA executive would do anything but support a vote on the side of the mainline pilots?

Pie in the sky stuff if anyone thinks otherwise.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 09:06
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AIPA or AFAP....... Wouldn't that be the case of the lesser of 2 Evils?
b.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 09:09
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Talking

Must agree with Led Zep.

If you guys think you're gonna get A Whole Lotta Love and find the Stairway To Heaven with AIPA, then think again - what you'll get is a Black Dog and end up in Kashmir
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 11:02
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Keg

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Thumbs down

Tell me Led, what sort of things arise that 2000 AIPA members vote on that would be binding or otherwise impact on J* pilots? The answer is 'none'. We don't vote on their EBA, they don't vote on ours. That actually currently occurs within Qantas at the moment with respect to the SH EBA I don't get a vote on it, they don't get to vote on the LH EBA.

However, I do recall an AIPA president trying that line on years ago when representation of J* (and regionals) was being pushed hard by the rank and file. He tried the line on that we didn't want to hook up in case the other groups had a disagreement with their management that we didn't want to be dragged in to. I asked at the time how that was any different to the SH EBA.

The comment by the AIPA president was wrong then and it's wrong now. All it serves is to keep the pilot groups suspicious of each other.

So why are you so desperate to keep the pilot groups from working together? It's a question you've been asked a few times and not once have you answered. I won't hold my breath this time.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 11:57
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At least AIPA provide better support should any incident occur oversea's (which JQ seem to be doing more of these days). It cost's less to be a member of AIPA compared to the alternative, and at least AIPA have said they will channel a percentage of the membership fee to the JPA day to day running costs.

Anyway, as a side note, just look at how the QF Engineers all stuck together recently. Its amazing what happens when everyone is singing to the same song.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 13:03
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Midnight Oil

Keg,

I am reminded of an old oils song 'Short Memory'

Court action trying to prevent J* int expansion springs to mind, and many other acts of bastardry (ETOPS approval, training standards etc) all trying to thwart the growth of J*. It might be a bridge too far to expect a majority to want to join AIPA. Although on the other side of the fence there are many now in J* that will have nothing to do with the AFAP after their experiences of 89.

Getting all Qantas group pilots in one union, probably easier to herd cats.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 13:08
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Tell me Led, what sort of things arise that 2000 AIPA members vote on that would be binding or otherwise impact on J* pilots?
how about the integration of JQ into QF? the winding up of JQ into QF, on JQ terms and conditions.... including retention of current position etc.?


just a thought
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 13:32
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Keg

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Lightbulb

ROFL. An issue such as that has already been dealt with in QF's recent history! An issue such as that would require a majority of both pilot groups.

The exact year escapes me as to when the agreement was struck but it was September '92 when it was announced that Qantas would take over Australian Airlines. The integration agreement between 'A' and 'Q' pilots groups still stands.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 21:54
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Keg,

The self appointed AIPA rep in the regionals could not even make to the table for the recent SSA EBA let alone actually do anything constructive,perhaps he was to busy over in the war office planning the next round of litigation against a fellow CoM member.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 22:01
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Keg

Im not advocating one union or another but when you have 2 pilot groups represented by one body, make no mistake the majority group will always end up with what it wants.

If you want any clearer example of this take a look at what happened to the Freedom pilots in NZ when they were recently integrated into Air NZ. Senior checkers have become S/O's. None retained a command. ALPA had a very hard time convincing the minority that it didnt have a conflict of interests.

Good luck with the vote fellas.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 23:02
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Keg

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Don, is he allowed at the table? I thought AFAP was the current respondent to the SSA EBA?

I'll keep saying it though. We achieve much more united than we ever will divided.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 23:53
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IRRESPECTIVE of which UNION gets the VOTE...............you still need people to become members of that union.

Time will tell...................
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 23:55
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Every argument against joining forces is based on whats happened in the passed, Look forward at how it should be and work towards that. Together we stand , Devided we fall!
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