How an airline SHOULD be run..
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True Skystar, but I think management is to blame, as it once was a career if the C/C wished it so, now they are on a contract, can be put off at any time, so probably approach the job in a different frame of mind. Still a lot of great C/C out there, but of course like everything else, not the same.
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Ah, insightful post from you Teresa Green.
Welcome to the future.
I'm a career flight attendant with quality terms and conditions that have afforded me what was once "a given", for the Australian workforce.
A house, a car and a holiday once a year.
I have a long term stake in the continued success of the company I work for as my own financial welfare [and that of my family] is inextricably linked.
My performance at work is predicated by this arrangement and after many years in the job I can confidently say that I am a more effective employee than I was 15, 10 or even 5 years ago.
However.........
The terms and conditions that are central to this mutually benefitial arrangement are drawing to an end.
New hires cannot hope to carve a career out of the job as I have done as the terms and conditions simply do not allow it.
Don't get me wrong. In many ways it's still a great job, but sadly now, that is all it is.
A job.
Not a career and naturally the level of commitment shown by the new hires is going to reflect this.
Why would you make an effort to learn about the industry, engage with the business OR TAKE PERSONALLY the comfort, welfare and satisfaction of your passengers if you are paid a pittance and as such, are only going to be here for a couple of years??
You wouldn't.
Despite the fact that I have to work along side these people when I think about it, I can't blame them.
Those who have flown on the US carriers will understand the picture I'm trying to paint.
South West being the obvious exception. It actively promotes and encourages long term employment, pays above industry standard and it's service levels and PROFITABILITY reflect this.
It's not all negative though as Qantas's profitability and the return it provides to it's shareholders will rise.
In the short term..............
___________________
Then you've got the whole other issue that is, "generation why"
Welcome to the future.
I'm a career flight attendant with quality terms and conditions that have afforded me what was once "a given", for the Australian workforce.
A house, a car and a holiday once a year.
I have a long term stake in the continued success of the company I work for as my own financial welfare [and that of my family] is inextricably linked.
My performance at work is predicated by this arrangement and after many years in the job I can confidently say that I am a more effective employee than I was 15, 10 or even 5 years ago.
However.........
The terms and conditions that are central to this mutually benefitial arrangement are drawing to an end.
New hires cannot hope to carve a career out of the job as I have done as the terms and conditions simply do not allow it.
Don't get me wrong. In many ways it's still a great job, but sadly now, that is all it is.
A job.
Not a career and naturally the level of commitment shown by the new hires is going to reflect this.
Why would you make an effort to learn about the industry, engage with the business OR TAKE PERSONALLY the comfort, welfare and satisfaction of your passengers if you are paid a pittance and as such, are only going to be here for a couple of years??
You wouldn't.
Despite the fact that I have to work along side these people when I think about it, I can't blame them.
Those who have flown on the US carriers will understand the picture I'm trying to paint.
South West being the obvious exception. It actively promotes and encourages long term employment, pays above industry standard and it's service levels and PROFITABILITY reflect this.
It's not all negative though as Qantas's profitability and the return it provides to it's shareholders will rise.
In the short term..............
___________________
Then you've got the whole other issue that is, "generation why"
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 8th Sep 2008 at 05:38. Reason: tautology
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Though the national airline in recent years has gone steeply downhill in terms of customer focused especially while onboard – though not every one of them are like that…..
Just my observations.
Just my observations.
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I have recently flew with Qantas many times over the months and have found that the Q's attitude has changed, dont know if thats attributed to the managers?
Mind you there are some really nice cc out their still
Mind you there are some really nice cc out their still
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Qantas Cabin Crew:Subcultures
Qantas Cabin Crew are best characterized as the sum of their parts.
You have....
1. Sydney based Longhaul who are full time and who work for Qantas Airways Ltd(QAL)
2.You have Qantas Longhaul Cabin Crew Australia(QCCA)
3.The LHR base who work for a hire company
4.The BKK Base who work for a hire company
5.The AKL Base who work for a hire company
6.The domestics...mostly ex TAA and Australian
7.Qantaslink
8.Jet*
All on different wages and conditions and all with a varying degree of loyalty to the mother ship
These different groups provide a varying standard of service according to their wages,conditions and the Length of time they see themselves staying.
You also have a variety of National cultures.....English,Eastern European,Thai and Kiwi and Australian.
There is a certain degree of animosity among the bases...particulalry the LHR,AKL and Australian based Longhaul.
All this adds up to inconsistency in service and attitude.
On any given day and any given sector the service can range from outstanding to ordinary to appalling.
Until the bickering stops and everyone is on the same T and Cs this will continue.
Homogeneity of culture and service went out the window when Dixon took over
You have....
1. Sydney based Longhaul who are full time and who work for Qantas Airways Ltd(QAL)
2.You have Qantas Longhaul Cabin Crew Australia(QCCA)
3.The LHR base who work for a hire company
4.The BKK Base who work for a hire company
5.The AKL Base who work for a hire company
6.The domestics...mostly ex TAA and Australian
7.Qantaslink
8.Jet*
All on different wages and conditions and all with a varying degree of loyalty to the mother ship
These different groups provide a varying standard of service according to their wages,conditions and the Length of time they see themselves staying.
You also have a variety of National cultures.....English,Eastern European,Thai and Kiwi and Australian.
There is a certain degree of animosity among the bases...particulalry the LHR,AKL and Australian based Longhaul.
All this adds up to inconsistency in service and attitude.
On any given day and any given sector the service can range from outstanding to ordinary to appalling.
Until the bickering stops and everyone is on the same T and Cs this will continue.
Homogeneity of culture and service went out the window when Dixon took over
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Skystars observations
As has been said many times before..... the last thing Darth would want is a unified workforce in any department.
As Ka.Boom pointed out Cabin Crew have not only been deliberately sourced from different nationalities and cultures but on vastly different pay and conditions as well.
It is almost impossible to have 2 different groups doing the same job at times on the same aircraft and not have different attitudes to say the least.Add to that a loss of work to another base where in fact the company plays one group against the other during industrial negotiations and you have a recipe for conflicting service standards and animosity.
These tactics are not only used on cabin Crew though and seems to be a favourite MO with the company.
It is impossible to please all passengers all of the time but I find it difficult to understand someone complaining about dropping standards on our flights when they can't even remember what they do for a living themselves.
As Ka.Boom pointed out Cabin Crew have not only been deliberately sourced from different nationalities and cultures but on vastly different pay and conditions as well.
It is almost impossible to have 2 different groups doing the same job at times on the same aircraft and not have different attitudes to say the least.Add to that a loss of work to another base where in fact the company plays one group against the other during industrial negotiations and you have a recipe for conflicting service standards and animosity.
These tactics are not only used on cabin Crew though and seems to be a favourite MO with the company.
It is impossible to please all passengers all of the time but I find it difficult to understand someone complaining about dropping standards on our flights when they can't even remember what they do for a living themselves.
Look at an airline like SQ that has the highest of standards in FAs - and thus some of the highests levels of customer satisfaction.
1. ALL of them are SIN based - Asian and basically most are either from Singapore or Malaysia.
2. ALL of them are employed on exactly the same employment terms.
Talking to them on a few flights to Europe and I explained the circumstances at QF and they way they employed FAs they simply couldn't believe it. Think of the costs to an airline like SQ in overnighting crew in London with 3 A380 services a DAY (some days), but they still do not have crew based there. And further to rumours thrown around SQ FAs do not share hotel rooms.
Some of them deep down might not love their job, or the company, but it NEVER shows in their attitude to the public, the airline is doing very well and it's because they invest heavily in new aircraft, and their service is second to none mainly due to the fact of the reputation around the world of excellent service from the 'SQ girls'(and boys).
1. ALL of them are SIN based - Asian and basically most are either from Singapore or Malaysia.
2. ALL of them are employed on exactly the same employment terms.
Talking to them on a few flights to Europe and I explained the circumstances at QF and they way they employed FAs they simply couldn't believe it. Think of the costs to an airline like SQ in overnighting crew in London with 3 A380 services a DAY (some days), but they still do not have crew based there. And further to rumours thrown around SQ FAs do not share hotel rooms.
Some of them deep down might not love their job, or the company, but it NEVER shows in their attitude to the public, the airline is doing very well and it's because they invest heavily in new aircraft, and their service is second to none mainly due to the fact of the reputation around the world of excellent service from the 'SQ girls'(and boys).
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Actually,these last few posts have made me think and I wonder if a 'QCCA' crew member took this to the discrimination board would the case hold water?
These days you can't look at someone or make even the most innocuous of statements without a claim being made against you.
If someone were to point out to the discrimination board that they are doing exactly the same job on the same aircraft at the same time that other crew are and for a lot less in terms of remuneration and conditions would they have a case that the company has to answer to?
The company might be able to argue about crew based in other countries on different pay and conditions because of different living standards & costs but how two different crew on different conditions based in the same city doing exactly the same job?
The company might get away with it IF both crews operated on different aircraft and types of service but what about operating at the same time on the same aircraft doing the same job?
These days you can't look at someone or make even the most innocuous of statements without a claim being made against you.
If someone were to point out to the discrimination board that they are doing exactly the same job on the same aircraft at the same time that other crew are and for a lot less in terms of remuneration and conditions would they have a case that the company has to answer to?
The company might be able to argue about crew based in other countries on different pay and conditions because of different living standards & costs but how two different crew on different conditions based in the same city doing exactly the same job?
The company might get away with it IF both crews operated on different aircraft and types of service but what about operating at the same time on the same aircraft doing the same job?
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At SQ the girls are put off at 35 yrs old. Regardless. No augument. They are considered to "old". If you are a male C/C member and gay it is never to be acknowledged. No augument. Singapore is not and never has been a democracy, it has been run by one family for the last 60 years. As long as you do as you are told, you do not have a problem, if you buck the system you are in trouble, big trouble. Singapore has paraded on the world stage as a good and fair country, it is anything but. It has quite a brutal regime, always politely accepted by Great Britain and the USA for whatever political reason, ask any pilot who has flown for SQ, they will tell you about the "big stick". Believe me it exists.
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Had a negative run in with Qantas Terminal Staff for the first time ever recently,
We had a passenger on a charter with us, he checked in with us half an hour to early, so he went over to the main terminal to wait around and have a drink or two, he said he would be in an airline lounge, I went to VB first (he didnt look like the richest man in the world) and the staff let me go straight in to have a look around, didnt need to show my ASIC, work ID's (although I was in uniform) nor did I have to show my VB Velocity card (left my wallet in the office)...
He wasnt there...
Went to Qantas lounge, didnt have my FF card on me, showed my ASIC, showed work ID, etc, and offered to have a staff member escort me to have a quick look for him... and they wouldnt let me.... the lady behind the counter wouldnt even give me the time of day... I even asked her to look up my FF account, and she said "I'm sorry I cant do that"...
Err ok...
but other than that usually all are very friendly and chipper
(We had to refuse the passenger on the aircraft, so I went to inform him)
We had a passenger on a charter with us, he checked in with us half an hour to early, so he went over to the main terminal to wait around and have a drink or two, he said he would be in an airline lounge, I went to VB first (he didnt look like the richest man in the world) and the staff let me go straight in to have a look around, didnt need to show my ASIC, work ID's (although I was in uniform) nor did I have to show my VB Velocity card (left my wallet in the office)...
He wasnt there...
Went to Qantas lounge, didnt have my FF card on me, showed my ASIC, showed work ID, etc, and offered to have a staff member escort me to have a quick look for him... and they wouldnt let me.... the lady behind the counter wouldnt even give me the time of day... I even asked her to look up my FF account, and she said "I'm sorry I cant do that"...
Err ok...
but other than that usually all are very friendly and chipper
(We had to refuse the passenger on the aircraft, so I went to inform him)
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Singapore brutal ? If you dabble with drugs yes,otherwise no.
or in a seat and vote for the opposition...
or a misguided youth who is stupid enough to deliberately scratch a car ( not that I agree with what the moron did but giving him lashes is a bit over the top for the crime).....
or tried to catch a train on the MRT while eating an apple....
or have a packet of chewing gum in your bag when entering Singapore...
I have even seen another crew member who had bought a Video tape of the Sound of Music for his wife and it was confiscated at Singapore airport because it had not been cleared by the Singapore censors...I wonder what the officials would have done if they had found a real porno tape....
Brutal does not neccessarily mean being violent (although the said teenager probably thinks so),it can also be in the context of a brutal suppression of peoples rights if the government wants it to be so..........
Last edited by lowerlobe; 10th Sep 2008 at 00:20.
lowerlobe
You have to abide by the laws of the land wherever you go.If you can't be bothered to find out what they are before travelling then don't complain when you are pulled up for breaking said laws.Or just don't go there.
Singapore is a democracy.They have transparent elections.Just happens that the majority vote the incumbents back in year after year.Why is that ?
It's not everyone's cup of tea but,believe it or not,there are perfectly good reasons for (most) of their laws.For example,after the race riots in the early days,something had to be done about laws relating to public order.
But this forum is not the place for a history lesson....
Singapore is a democracy.They have transparent elections.Just happens that the majority vote the incumbents back in year after year.Why is that ?
It's not everyone's cup of tea but,believe it or not,there are perfectly good reasons for (most) of their laws.For example,after the race riots in the early days,something had to be done about laws relating to public order.
But this forum is not the place for a history lesson....
Last edited by TWT; 10th Sep 2008 at 05:27. Reason: typo
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TWT.....I never said that you don't abide by the rules of another country but I was expressing a widely held view about Singapore and it's laws.
Originally posted by TWT...
How about I give you Four...
I have been travelling to Singapore since the the early 70's and I like it there.All I am saying is that it has a political system that does not handle opposite views very well....
Originally posted by TWT...
Give me one example of an opposition party person who has been hobbled by the incumbent party.
Prominent human rights defender and opposition leader Dr Chee Soon Juan
Dr Chee's sister, Chee Siok Chin, who is a prominent member of the small opposition Singapore Democratic Party, was also made bankrupt by a court -- thus barring her from contesting a parliamentary seat
Tang Liang Hong
Workers Party leader J.B. Jeyaretnam
lowerlobe
Fair enough.You make some good points.And you replied before I edited my post to tone it down a bit.I guess I bit because I 'assumed' that you were guided by generalised impressions of the country rather than first hand knowledge.
Never assume.
Anyway we're off topic....
Never assume.
Anyway we're off topic....
