Working for Airservices Australia, the safety based organisation

[oldbull youngbull]

There have been several instances in Australia of un-protected industrial action from workers willing to draw attention to safety matters in the workplace.........All it takes is BALLS. Do you think people wont back you when the truth comes out?

Stand for something or fall for nothing?

If ATC's took industrial action NOW then the full story would inevitably come out. Management greed, incompetence and the staggering lies would be exposed.

Change comes about by good people taking a stand. The fact is there is a massive amount of overtime being done by controllers now. Come December we'll see how much gumption and fortitude controllers have?

Will you stand and be counted or will you fall for nothing? Will you lay down for 4%? Will you turn a blind eye to what's occuring if they offer you 6%?

This isn't about money anymore, it's about the destruction of an organisation. It's always had it's faults but it delivered a service in the past.

[Old Akro]

I'd like to congratulate sadatc on his/her first post. It was articulate, logical and unemotional. We need more posts of this quality.

[C-change]

I agree with oldbull youngbull. If things are as unsafe as people are saying, you all need to stand up and do someting. Waiting for others to save the day for you will not happen. Clearly the current strategies have not worked. If you sit there and do nothing, you become part of the problem and not the solution. You can keep doing the same old thing, whinge, complain and become bitter and miserable or you can do something positive.

Ok, if a strike or stop work is not your preferred course of action and people are frightened of retribution, then use the media. They can help you out if used correctly. They will keep your identity quiet if thats what you want.

Put someting in writing to your local fed minister as well as the minister for DITRDLG (or whatever it is now), you may be surprised by their response. Some of you out there write excellent posts on these threads and argue your points very well. You can also back up your claims.
I recently spoke with my local fed member about an issue and she was excellent and dealt with the issue extremely well.

You all need to ask yourself if you have done all that you can to make a change for the better, especially if it involves safety. If you can honestly say that you have done all that you can possibly do, you will sleep well at night.

Best of luck.

[DirtyPierre]

Ok, if a strike or stop work is not your preferred course of action and people are frightened of retribution, then use the media.

I wish I was young enough to know everything like you mate! You obviously haven't been watching. It is in the media, daily, weekly and on TV. Sorry it hasn't been on Today Tonight or other lamo hard hitting current affairs programs hosted by someone chosen for their looks rather than any sort of journalistic integrity, just the 7>30 report, but the media can't be controlled like that.

Oh by the way, fear of retribution for illegal industrial action? I don't know about you mate, but a huge fine and prison are not in my monthly domestic budget.

Put someting in writing to your local fed minister

Been done!

Its not about 'having the balls' - it is about being smart.

Absolutely and positively. spot on direct.no.speed. The media has in the past used posts from this forum to misrepresent the issue.

If ATC's took industrial action NOW then the full story would inevitably come out. Management greed, incompetence and the staggering lies would be exposed.

And they would be in court the next day. The world doesn't work like that, and controllers are far more intelligent to take such rash and irresponsible action.

The controllers union is handlingly the current professional, technical and industrial issues very well. We have a new President and Management team who have brains the size of planets and a strategy to ensure the controllers get what they truly deserve.

The journey, however, will be a hard one.

[C-change]

Dirty Pierre, sorry I hit such a raw nerve mate but no need to be nasty. I support you guys 100%, I think you get treated like crap and get taken for granted by your management and I certainly dont believe that I know everything. Far from it, I'm not a union rep nor am I an expert in Workchoices and I don't work for ASA. But I'm still entitled to an opinion. Its just my thoughts on the topic.

Yes, I have seen info in the media but lets be honest, its not really getting much attention with the public. They are more interested in QF maintenance issues and cheap airfares. My reference to ACA/TT was because the bulk of the public watch them instead of the ABC. Greater audience, thats all. Yes, I did see the 730 report. Not a bad story but your CEO came out looking pretty good in the end.

Don't forget its your companies junior and senior controllers saying things are crap and unsafe on these threads (not me) whilst others leave.

I've been reading similar threads to this one over the last few years and not much seems to have changed with your staff situation or morale issues. I just thought more would of been done by now.

Good luck to you all.

[oldbull youngbull]

And thank you equally to Kevin Rudd and Julia Howard for not having the guts to dismantle it

Have you got the guts to challenge it? Why would they change it if it's not challenged?

[Howabout]

And, DNS, your union seems smarter than that.

I don't know, but OB/YB and his other mate (Sigrid Thornton) seem to be attempting to provoke precipitate action that, I think, they know would only backfire. Action, from what I've read, that you and all of your (responsible) collegues would regard as an avenue of absolute last resort.

I would seriously question their identities and motives and add that the respective join dates and number of posts pose further conundrums.

Something's fishy in Pearl Bay.

[Bill Woodfull]

Sigrid Thornton

LOL - smashing girl for a seaside beak.

I agree with Howabout.

IMO...

1. Go to work if fit for duty (including the overtime thats propping up the system), its not the travelling public's fault is it?;
2. Roll on 21st December, hopefully all facilitative arrangements reset to nil (ouch);
3. Let the punters fly all over Christmas and New Year;
4. At the end of the holiday and festive season, stop all overtime as instructed and IF instructed by the association;
5. Put the bounders to the sword in the AIRC in January;
6. If no joy by February, consider joining the 35 odd recently departed and serving notice to depart overseas (remember it should be a complete and utter shambles by then and Kev will have Tony in his office to explain).

Mr Jardine has picked two spinners and two seamers on a flat road of a pitch in the hottest week of the year. I don't think Bertie Oldfield will need to bat.

[Howabout]

Bill, loved your batting.

As regards the Bobsy twins, I am reminded of your famous comment:

“There are two teams out there, one is playing cricket.
The other is making no attempt to do so.”

Regards

[No Further Requirements]

Thank you SADATC. A well written post which tells it as it is.

All of you, think whether it is worth your while staying.

Cheers,

NFR
The Departed

[C-change]

Howabout,

Sigrid Thornton-Very good, had a good belly laugh at that one (really I did). Nothing fishy from me mate, except the snapper in Jervis Bay, where I live. I'll send you a photo after Sunday's fishing session if you like.

As for cricket, I do play. On Sat arvo's because I get every weekend off. Sorry couldn't resist.

Hey, I'm not trying to provoke anything. You guys can do want you want, just surprised that more hasn't been done. If you're all happy with everything thats being done to get more staff, then I look forward to reading forums full of happy ASA controllers.

If you would like to know my identity, PM me and I'll provide you with home, work e-mail and phone numbers. No BS.

As stated earlier, if you're all happy, thats great but you may want to see if SADATC is doing OK.

NFR, hope the fam has settled in well. "Y"

One last point. Howabout, you joined Pprune after me but I did laugh at Sigrid Thornton.

[Quokka]

NFR has a point. Work Choices has no penalties for resigning and the most effective method of negotiation in a free market is to leave.

More importantly, how can anyone stay working in an organisation that has little regard for the law, an absence of ethics and within-which personal values have been corrupted by self-interest, avarice and a disturbing satisfaction with gaining an advantage by inflicting pain and suffering on others.

How can you stay?

[Howabout]

OK Sigrid. Maybe you are a contented body on the south coast of NSW. But your call to war won't benefit anybody. If push comes to shove and this ATC fraternity makes a wrong call, they'll be hung out to dry.

Fortunately, I don't think they are that dumb.

[C-change]

Howabout,
couple of points ;

1. Yep, very content,
2. Never tried to start a war,
3. Never thought anyone was dumb, just unhappy and miserable, ie SADATC.

[oldbull youngbull]

Ohh no, My games up is it? OK I'll admit it. I'm from people and change in Canberra. (and I hate ATC's coz I secretly believe I add far more value to ASA than you lot!)

unemployed loser

If you have left yourself no other options than a 'career' in ATC who's fault is that? Hard to feel sorry for ya mate I'm afraid.

Too scared to take action because you've got no other options?

'agent provocateur' operating on behalf of the 'dirt unit' within the canberra 'chateau de merde'.

All a bit clandestine and paranoid perhaps? And who f#cking cares anyway? You don't think that will all come out?

I would rather be a smart and victorious, than a brave, large-balled, gutsy, unemployed loser who destroyed my profession and that of hundreds of my colleagues.

Really? I'd rather be 'brave, large balled, gutsy <insert self employed and satisfied> person who took a stand for what he believes in than a person too gutless to take a stand on his/her beliefs.

You might want to have a closer look at who's destroying your profession. Hint, he lives in Canberra and has two first names?

Your motto: Smart, victorious (but too scared to take a stand because I can't get a job anywhere else)

Go on admit it, this EBA is only about one thing to you: money, you'll secretly vote yes to 4% but tell all your mates you voted no. How about a show of hands where all your mates can see you for the no vote?

To me the starting point of this negotiation is the demise of the ar$ehole that is systematically destroying this organisation. I think you can work out who I'm talking about. Sh!t I forgot, I'm a management plant.

Bobsy twins

Don't know C-Change, never met the person.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, you might want to tell all your mates that it's not a good idea to come in off their rec leave to fill holes in rosters if you're trying to make a point about staffing.

[Howabout]

Jeez, I've seen some sprays in my time, but OB/YB takes the cake.

Sorry Sigrid, your post rings true. Enjoy the fishing - lucky bustard.

Unfortunately, you will be stuck with the handle - my apologies.

[C-change]

No problems at all, had a great laugh. Gotta keep a sense of humour. I'll put a photo on here if we do any good.

[Howabout]

Would love to see that Sigrid, but we may be guilty of 'thread-drift'. Regardless, enjoy the fishing and, for anybody else that's tuned-in, keep playing it smart.

I'm pretty sure that Airservices' management would love a public punch-up, which would divert attention from their alleged short-comings. It would also serve to galvanise (ignorant) public opinion around XMAS time. The union seems pretty well attuned to the potential machinations in this regard.

Sorry about using 'alleged'; I am outside the system, but sympathise with a dedicated bunch.

[flightfocus]

Reading back through this it is good to see how much better things have become. It must have been all about the money

Coral,

Actually things are worse - not better. Lipservices are constantly trying to reinvent the EBA, they are going to extraordinary lengths to hide the staffing shortage/crisis from the airlines. Smoke and mirrors - denial ostrich management approach.

Rumour is that there are another 10 to 15 staff actively seeking employment in the sandpit or already accepting/negotiating offers. The Lipservices response has been to increase both the frequency and intensity of the beatings for the remaining.

You do not see any staff shortage NOTAMS because old TFN sent the message out to change the wording. First we had "staff availability", the "operational requirements" now I think its pink elephants and unicorns - or something equally misleading.

[Jabawocky]

Isn't it start clearance req due traffic management or
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