Qantas ground 6 x B737-400's
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As being reported in Airline Transport World
Beleaguered Qantas withdraws six 737s over paperwork 'irregularity'
Wednesday August 13, 2008
Qantas's safety record likely will fall under further scrutiny after it announced the withdrawal of six 737-400s from service while it cross-checked maintenance records relating to modification work carried out in one of its Australian facilities.
Qantas Engineering Executive GM David Cox said the issue was one of procedure and there were no safety implications. "Qantas discovered an irregularity with paperwork for these aircraft during an internal integrity check of maintenance records," he said. "In line with our prudent response to any maintenance issue, however minor, we have elected to suspend the operation of the six aircraft while we ensure all our records are 100% accurate and we have advised the Civil Aviation Safety Authority."
Cox confirmed that staff "regularly check our records and detect a record-keeping anomaly on average once a year." The latest hiccup comes during a special audit by Australia's aviation safety regulator that was prompted by a series of incidents involving the carrier (ATWOnline, Aug. 12).
by Geoffrey Thomas
Beleaguered Qantas withdraws six 737s over paperwork 'irregularity'
Wednesday August 13, 2008
Qantas's safety record likely will fall under further scrutiny after it announced the withdrawal of six 737-400s from service while it cross-checked maintenance records relating to modification work carried out in one of its Australian facilities.
Qantas Engineering Executive GM David Cox said the issue was one of procedure and there were no safety implications. "Qantas discovered an irregularity with paperwork for these aircraft during an internal integrity check of maintenance records," he said. "In line with our prudent response to any maintenance issue, however minor, we have elected to suspend the operation of the six aircraft while we ensure all our records are 100% accurate and we have advised the Civil Aviation Safety Authority."
Cox confirmed that staff "regularly check our records and detect a record-keeping anomaly on average once a year." The latest hiccup comes during a special audit by Australia's aviation safety regulator that was prompted by a series of incidents involving the carrier (ATWOnline, Aug. 12).
by Geoffrey Thomas
Unheeded Lessons from ANSETT Debacle
Perhaps QANTAS neglected to learn the lessons spelled out by ATSB’s investigation into the Ansett debacle - http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2002/sir200211_001.aspx.
In particular concerning resource allocation and workload issues:
“Deficiencies in the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation
The ATSB investigation found that similar deficiencies within the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation led to the withdrawal from service of the B767 aircraft in December 2000 and April 2001. Those deficiencies were related to:
Ansett had undergone considerable change over a number of years. Many of the Ansett systems had developed at a time when the company faced a very different aviation environment. Over time, efficiency measures were introduced to improve productivity but the introduction of modern robust systems did not keep pace with the relative reduction in human resources and loss of corporate knowledge.
Risk management and implementation of change within the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation were flawed. Inadequate allowance was made for the extra demand on resources in some key areas during the change period.
The Ansett fleet was diverse and the point had been reached where some essential aircraft support programs were largely dependent on one or two people. Hence it was possible for an error or omission by a particular specialist to go undetected for a number of years.
Resource allocation and workload issues had been evident within some areas of the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation for a considerable period of time. The investigation found that measures aimed at achieving greater productivity had been introduced throughout the organisation without sufficient regard to the different circumstances and criticality of the different work areas. Insufficient consideration had been given to the possible consequences of resource constraints on the core activities of some safety-critical areas of the organisation.
People and robust systems are two of the prime defences against error. Therefore, a combination of poor systems and inadequate resources has the potential to compromise safety. If a failure by one or two individuals can result in a failure of the system as a whole, then the underlying problem is a deficient system, not simply human fallibility.”
Read too what ATSB says about CASA deficiencies in Chapter 7 of their investigation report. Not much seems to have improved.
In particular concerning resource allocation and workload issues:
“Deficiencies in the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation
The ATSB investigation found that similar deficiencies within the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation led to the withdrawal from service of the B767 aircraft in December 2000 and April 2001. Those deficiencies were related to:
- organisational structure and change management
- systems for managing work processes and tasks
- resource allocation and workload.
Ansett had undergone considerable change over a number of years. Many of the Ansett systems had developed at a time when the company faced a very different aviation environment. Over time, efficiency measures were introduced to improve productivity but the introduction of modern robust systems did not keep pace with the relative reduction in human resources and loss of corporate knowledge.
Risk management and implementation of change within the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation were flawed. Inadequate allowance was made for the extra demand on resources in some key areas during the change period.
The Ansett fleet was diverse and the point had been reached where some essential aircraft support programs were largely dependent on one or two people. Hence it was possible for an error or omission by a particular specialist to go undetected for a number of years.
Resource allocation and workload issues had been evident within some areas of the Ansett engineering and maintenance organisation for a considerable period of time. The investigation found that measures aimed at achieving greater productivity had been introduced throughout the organisation without sufficient regard to the different circumstances and criticality of the different work areas. Insufficient consideration had been given to the possible consequences of resource constraints on the core activities of some safety-critical areas of the organisation.
People and robust systems are two of the prime defences against error. Therefore, a combination of poor systems and inadequate resources has the potential to compromise safety. If a failure by one or two individuals can result in a failure of the system as a whole, then the underlying problem is a deficient system, not simply human fallibility.”
Read too what ATSB says about CASA deficiencies in Chapter 7 of their investigation report. Not much seems to have improved.
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Yes,that's why qantas removed them from service.......because it wasn't a safety issue. Huh? That makes sense doesn't it?
Of course you are going to pull your aircraft from revenue service because it is not a safety issue.
At least if you are going to tell bull
, make it a little believable.
Of course you are going to pull your aircraft from revenue service because it is not a safety issue.
At least if you are going to tell bull
, make it a little believable.
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casa spokesman or qf spokesman?
Why is it that a certain CASA spokesman appears to be more batting for QF everytime there's an issue?
Could be wrong but the impression is there and it does not look good imho even if they are just re-assuring the public.
Could be wrong but the impression is there and it does not look good imho even if they are just re-assuring the public.
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I'm sure there are some ex-AN people working at Qantas scratching their heads thinking, am I in the twilight zone or something?
But more to the point. It's nice to see that Tullamarine Heavy are not perfect either. They are very quick to point out when someone at Avalon makes a mistake and what a blight on the engineering world those Forstaff Contractors are.
Karma perhaps?
But more to the point. It's nice to see that Tullamarine Heavy are not perfect either. They are very quick to point out when someone at Avalon makes a mistake and what a blight on the engineering world those Forstaff Contractors are.
Karma perhaps?
Hey Ampclamp,
I have noticed that too - every time I hear from that particular CASA spokes person he is towing the QF line and making obviously reassuring and sickly sweet positive statements.
I want a regulator that is manned by people who are standing up for the public's interest, rather than that of the airline.
I want to hear "CASA will do everything to ensure that Qantas maintains standards to guarantee the safety of the public"
rather than the standard "we are sure it's all good even though it doesn't look that way"
In a small industry where your next potential employer after CASA is Qantas then who would dare offend the red rat ?
I have noticed that too - every time I hear from that particular CASA spokes person he is towing the QF line and making obviously reassuring and sickly sweet positive statements.
I want a regulator that is manned by people who are standing up for the public's interest, rather than that of the airline.
I want to hear "CASA will do everything to ensure that Qantas maintains standards to guarantee the safety of the public"
rather than the standard "we are sure it's all good even though it doesn't look that way"
In a small industry where your next potential employer after CASA is Qantas then who would dare offend the red rat ?
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to torqeman
I'm sure there are some ex-AN people working at Qantas scratching their heads thinking, am I in the twilight zone or something?
Their stories have a bit of deja vu about them now.
The reaction of the regulator is somewhat different in this spacial dimension !
It does not matter where the eng managers come from they need to to be able to say no to these people running the show.Unfortunately if you do say no it cant be done they'll find another up and comer who'll say yes to anything and around the circle we go again and again.
At least when BD left I heard he told them they could not do it (cut tens of millions out of QE) without stuffing it up. Looking like he maybe right.
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CASA spokesperson on SBS news tonight stating that the AD had hundreds on pages and it was a small oversight that could easly have been made.
WHAT THA!
Sorry I missed the "OUTFLOW VALVE CLOSE" part of my QRH RECALLS and totally F%^KED up my memory items. I could imagine CASA stating that it was a small oversight in the hundreds of pages the pilots have to read through.
This countries Airline Industry has lost the plot. We have self regulation, a massive shortage of Airtraffic Controllers, a shortage of engineers, rapid and dangerous cost cutting, a media that has become sensationalist, baggage handlers doing push backs, what is next? I hate to think. Hope its not on my watch!
WHAT THA!
Sorry I missed the "OUTFLOW VALVE CLOSE" part of my QRH RECALLS and totally F%^KED up my memory items. I could imagine CASA stating that it was a small oversight in the hundreds of pages the pilots have to read through.
This countries Airline Industry has lost the plot. We have self regulation, a massive shortage of Airtraffic Controllers, a shortage of engineers, rapid and dangerous cost cutting, a media that has become sensationalist, baggage handlers doing push backs, what is next? I hate to think. Hope its not on my watch!
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Torqueman, are you one of the AVV that was slagged ? it seems so
An AD and it's subsequent paperwork is driven not by LAMEs but Maint. Services the LAMEs just follow the paperwork they are given, I suspect there will be a fallguy in all of this and guess what ?
He won't be a LAME !
An AD and it's subsequent paperwork is driven not by LAMEs but Maint. Services the LAMEs just follow the paperwork they are given, I suspect there will be a fallguy in all of this and guess what ?
He won't be a LAME !
An AD and it's subsequent paperwork is driven not by LAMEs but Maint. Services the LAMEs just follow the paperwork they are given
It appears that someone is not doing his job by not reading the paper work for the job and that included the reading AD.
At least the system for catching this kind of ovesight works.
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No, LAME's don't get to read the AD (at QF anyway). They are provided with an Engineering Instruction that engineering produce under their car 35 instrument and carry out the EI that is derived from the AD or Service Bulletin.
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Standards, standards and pro-active Quality Assurance Audits are the only way. All of these to be performed by an external agency (not QF, not CASA), if QF values it's ISO accreditation, then it has to learn to 'SUCK EGGS' just like me Granny did!
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April 2001
Doesn't this all sound too familiar
The Boeing 767-200s are the same planes Ansett grounded in December after it was found routine maintenance checks had not been carried out, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority said.
The CASA spokesman said the safety authority will conduct a separate investigation into the groundings, and will roll the report into its current review into Ansett's maintenance operations
It is clear there has been a lack of proper control over the planning of maintenance, over the control of critical documents and the execution of maintenance.
Following the grounding of Ansett's entire fleet of Boeing 767's, the Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has given the airline 2 weeks to prove that it is worthy of it's operating licence. It is within CASA's authority to withdraw the licence thus grounding Ansett. The 767's were grounded last week following the discovery of cracks on the engine pylons which subsequntly highlighted maintenance discrepancies
Doesn't this all sound too familiar
Ozaub:
= they gutted the maintenance planning department and got rid of type specialists as well, as I understand it.
These were very senior ex Lames who knew each aircraft type intimately, read and pondered each AD and possible mod., and then decided what would be done by whom, with what and when, all presided over by the very capable, funny and Gentlemanly, LH.
My observation is that the money these intelligent Gentlemen saved AN over the years vastly outweighed their salaries many times over. For some of them , I spent many pleasant hours forensically examining IPC's, tracking down pathways of mods to save older spares. But of course all a new manager could see would be old farts sitting in cubicles pushing paper.
Ultimately the loss of these few fine men cost the airline it's AOC and it's life in my opinion.
But that was back in another world.
Over time, efficiency measures were introduced to improve productivity but the introduction of modern robust systems did not keep pace with the relative reduction in human resources and loss of corporate knowledge.
These were very senior ex Lames who knew each aircraft type intimately, read and pondered each AD and possible mod., and then decided what would be done by whom, with what and when, all presided over by the very capable, funny and Gentlemanly, LH.
My observation is that the money these intelligent Gentlemen saved AN over the years vastly outweighed their salaries many times over. For some of them , I spent many pleasant hours forensically examining IPC's, tracking down pathways of mods to save older spares. But of course all a new manager could see would be old farts sitting in cubicles pushing paper.
Ultimately the loss of these few fine men cost the airline it's AOC and it's life in my opinion.
But that was back in another world.
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It doesn't take a highly paid bureaucrat to know by now that self regulation just does not work.
Self regulation is an oxymoron. You would think, that the times it has been proven not to work, it would have been a historically know, but these people just know better.
CASA has passed the ball to the airlines, but they missed the catch and it is fast moving to the outer.
Self regulation is an oxymoron. You would think, that the times it has been proven not to work, it would have been a historically know, but these people just know better.
CASA has passed the ball to the airlines, but they missed the catch and it is fast moving to the outer.
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Basically CASA has to tow the line. Reason being: The knowledge and experience level in QF far supercedes any that is available at CASA.
CASA dictating to QF is like the school child chastising the Teacher.
Ridiculous.
CASA dictating to QF is like the school child chastising the Teacher.
Ridiculous.
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A Qantas spokesman confirmed there was an issue involving the lubrication of a jack screw on a Boeing 747-400.
"Qantas found this through a routine check of our maintenance records," the spokesman said.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...46-421,00.html
another damned once in a year anomaly?
"Qantas found this through a routine check of our maintenance records," the spokesman said.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...46-421,00.html
another damned once in a year anomaly?
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I like this article more for the way SP calls a spade a spade. He's never been one to mix his words and wears his heart on his sleeve (unlike QF management)
Turmoil for Qantas as aircraft grounded - Travel - smh.com.au
Dont hold back Steve...Tell 'em what you really think!
Turmoil for Qantas as aircraft grounded - Travel - smh.com.au
Dont hold back Steve...Tell 'em what you really think!
Yesterday Qantas insisted that the grounding of the Boeing 737-400 fleet was due to "paperwork" and was not a safety issue.
But Mr Purvinas said: "Not a safety issue, my arse. These aircraft [may] have been flying for up to five years with missing parts."
But Mr Purvinas said: "Not a safety issue, my arse. These aircraft [may] have been flying for up to five years with missing parts."
When you live....
From The Age website:
Found that quite amusing at a time when customers are starting to question their choice of Qantas as the safer alternative. To paraphrase: "Acutally, we're always having issues - you just don't normally find out about them".
Hmmmm..........UTR
However, Qantas' head of engineering, David Cox, said there had not been any increase in maintenance issues but an increase in media attention to those incidents.
Hmmmm..........UTR
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UTH: I think he is referring to how the media is constantly looking for minor incidents and finding them, and referring to them as major failures (which could cause an aircraft to crash, even if it's the seatbelt lights not working)