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'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief

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Old 31st Jul 2008, 16:42
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 21:23
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I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.
If you take the option of strike action off the table (other forms of industrial action now outlawed) then you might as well cave in now like Civil Air and the rank & file have done for the last 15 years at least.

In so far as privatization is concerned don't fear it, no more political appointments and decisions based on real economics not some pseudo rubbish we have witnessed since 1995. Really who in business would allow that ALM bull****.

There is no going back to the 60's or 70's public service days. Our aviation colleagues in the airlines have fared no better or worse in private employment.
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 22:19
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Can someone please explain to me how recruiting a course which will not get rated until 2011 fulfils TFN's promise of the erasing the staff shortfall in a month???
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 23:33
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bn centre

You are obviously not a manager then if you can't work that out!

Anyway, who was talking of strike action? How about an overtime ban?
That should focus the minds of the higherups in a heartbeat.
You should make a big beat up in the media for the month ahead of the ban, run with the ban for two weeks to a month, and let the chips fall where they may.
You might have to "discuss" the nature of the problem with those that can't help themselves coming in for that extra cash, but you get them in every organization, and better still, everyone will know who they are.
Bring some media into the centre on a "fact finding mission". Take photos with your whiz bang mobile phone and post them on the internet of empty consoles (under an assumed name of course)
Take the fight to the bar stewards, stop standing there getting hit!
Trying to act all mature, long suffering and reasonable hasn't worked in the past so why would anyone think it will work in the future?
Short term pain, long term gain....for everyone.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 04:57
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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There will be no need for strike action IMHO.

Airservices says we have 972 Operational Controllers and are 17 short.

We actually have around 750 'moving metal' controllers which makes us 220ish short.

Between now and christmas we will lose say at least another 12-15 to resignation/retirement/VR etc (we have lost about 4 the last few days). Hopefully we will pick up 12-15 new ratings in that period.

End result? 220 short. Its a house of cards built on a fold town tray table and the FO (Civilair) mentions to the Capt (Alan Woods Building) that he is reading a SIGMET outling forecast MOD CAT ahead. "Shall I make a PA announcement and tell the pax?", "No need the WX radar looks fine, tell them the weather ahead is beaut and we will be on time", "But Captain, its Clear Air Turbulence and the Sigmet says...".

The issue is have we passed the PNR (point of no return)?

We don't have to do anything. Go to work, be professional - Levels 1, 2 and 3 are punching the holes in the cheese slices.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 05:28
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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From crikey.com.au

AirServices memo fails to shift the blame

Ben Sandilands writes:

A rambling memo sent out by AirServices Australia CEO Greg Russell to his staff this week should be enough to end his career. AirServices Australia is no longer delivering its product: the continuous safe separation of airliners in controlled air space. It has been criticised for this by its two major customers, Qantas and Virgin Blue. Tiger Airways this morning complained about the cost burden of flying around uncontrolled air space because it refuses to use those areas on safety grounds.

Departing CASA CEO Bruce Byron has also criticised AirServices Australia, as has ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organisation. AirServices has even undermined its income base by failing to provide its airline customers with the product for which they pay. No control means no fees. And it has serious safety implications.

Russell may well be right about the amazing coincidence between controllers not presenting for duty on their days off or for additional overtime when pay negotiations are underway. But that’s the job of any CEO to anticipate and manage. It has not been managed at AirServices. It has been allowed to fall into a heap. When overseas flights are approaching an Australian city with legal fuel reserves and are suddenly confronted with no air traffic control for the final stage of the flight to the destination or to the flight-plan-filed alternative airport to which they would divert in the event of fog or adverse winds, they are confronted with conditions their standard operation procedures forbid, and marginal if not inadequate fuel reserves. This is an intolerably dangerous situation. It cannot be remedied simply by bullying people who are drop dead tired to work yet another additional shift. The rules governing air traffic controller rostering also forbid such a solution. This needs to be fixed immediately.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 09:40
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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A good couple of questions to ask TFN , of which he would have no idea of the answers.
' How many times has TIBA been avoided or shortened because a controller came in early on short notice to start their shift, or stayed back late , or came in at short notice on their day off, or allowed their roster to be changed to cover holes?'
Also how often is their airspace kept open with less than required staff, consoles done on combine, etc, etc, and for how many years have these practices been going on?
Is it true that it is cheaper to rely on your controllers doing 'excessive O/T to bump up the bottom line, than hire more?
Is your remuneration directly tied to this bottom line?

The potential for TIBA has been around for years, and there have been incidences. The line about it being tied to the EBA is a convenient scapegoat for someone who has ignored the problem for years. The management decision to create the non-operational ALMs in October was the final straw.

The Aviation Bureaucrats had removed themselves that far from the day-to-day running of the core business, that, they believed that controllers professional pride in keeping the airspace open was inexhaustible.
That our calls for years to staff the place properly and look at the age profiles was all about money. I suppose if your only motivation is the Almighty Dollar, it is reasonable to assume that is what everybody thinks.

It is a high pressure environment, when someone makes a mistake it affects those around them. When you see workmates coming in with their eyeballs hanging out, having major health problems and going through break-ups because of the pressure to attend for work on their days off, and realise that no-one at the top gives a toss, you tend to re-assess your priorities.

Thank you Greg Russell you, and your profit driven sycophants, helped us get there.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 10:11
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CEO's

I have a question:

It would be of interest to know how many CEO's of today started:
1/ As an apprentice on the shop floor.
2/ As a junior doctor on the ward.
3/ As a local council worker.
4/ As a teacher.
5/ As a Commercial pilot.
6/ As a community constable.
7/ As a whatever????

My point is that today we generate them with a degree in business management, or human science, we the community/tax payer, then pay them 100's of thousands of dollars per year, and to get change? or have a problem in the making recognised? they have a board, how do you get a board to understand? if you are lucky enough to have it get to board level, they enlist the expertise of numerous consultants also with degrees in human science, business, and then only if you are very lucky,after maybe 12 months they tell us what we are telling them.

Of days gone by, my late Grandfather rose to be head of the dairy factory, but only after he started as the factory apprentice fleet mechanic, then as cheese maker, milk powerder processor, packing shed hand, cream/milk truck driver, etc etc, the point is he left school at 13, and started with the factory, and never left.

When it goes wrong, a govt enquiry or whatever will find fault with some manager or other, never the CEO.

Call me a synyc or whatever, but but and but, the more I see the more I do not understand, then again at 52 maybe I am just to slow for the change in the world.

we live in a world where common sense is :

1/ Not common.
2/ Not sensible.

and as for discretion bought about by experiance, forget it.

I rekon, round up all the politicians,lawyers,CEO's, and slot the lot of them.

But hey thats not using comon sense.

Yep holes lining up in the swiss cheese and no one wants to know:

Chrs
H/Snort
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 10:20
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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another great post max1 - I really hope someone in BS castle is passing them on (they probably are for all the wrong reasons - keep your head down!).
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 10:36
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cbradio,
I am sure many controllers would ask him to his face.




If we ever saw him.



I've seen him on telly though.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 10:40
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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The problem these days is that when CEOs go to a new position, all they get asked is "How much did you increase profit and decrease expenditure?" No talk of "How did your customers rate you?" or "How satisfied were your employees with your performance?" It's all about money. I think this kind of thinking will end in tears soon - witness Don Smallgoods and Datmoor woodmill shut downs....

Cheers,

NFR.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 15:41
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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New Software System Calculates ATC Numbers

New Software System Calculates ATC Numbers

New Software System Announced

MEMO
To: All Air Traffic Controllers
From: ASA CEO
Re: MYASS

This memo is to announce the development of a new ATC Staff Number Counting Software System. We are currently building a new Canberra based data center that will contain all ATC Staff Numbers data since the Year 2000. The program is referred to as the "Millennia Year Application Software System" (MYASS).

Next Monday at 9:00 there will be a meeting in which I will show MYASS to everyone. We will continue to hold demonstrations throughout the month so that all employees will have an opportunity to get a good look at MYASS.

As for the status of the implementation of the program, I have not addressed the networking aspects so currently only one person at a time can use MYASS. This restriction will be removed after MYASS expands.

Several recently promoted managers are using the program already and have come to depend on it. Just this morning I walked into a subordinate's office and was not surprised to find that he had his nose buried in MYASS. I've noticed that some of the less technical personnel and ATC's are somewhat afraid of MYASS.

Just last week, when asked to enter some information into the program, I had the GM ATC say "I'm a little nervous, I've never put anything in MYASS before." I volunteered to help him through his first time and when we were through he admitted that it was relatively painless and he was actually looking forward to doing it again. He went so far as to say that after using SAP and Oracle, he was ready to kiss MYASS.

I know there are concerns over the virus that was found in MYASS at the beginning of 2008, but I am pleased to say the virus has been eliminated and we were able to save MYASS. In the future, however, protection will be required prior to entering MYASS.

We planned this database to encompass all information associated with the business. So as you begin using the program, feel free to put anything you want into MYASS. As MYASS grows larger, we envision a time when it will be commonplace to walk by an office and see a manager hand a paper to an employee and say "Here, stick this in MYASS."

This program has already demonstrated great benefit to ASA during recent CASA and ICAO audits. After requesting certain historical data the agency representatives were amazed at how quickly we provided the information. When asked how the numbers could be retrieved so rapidly our CASA Relationship Manager proudly stated "Simple, I just pulled them out of MYASS."
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 03:41
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Is the interface software or hardware-based?
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 07:37
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Please ask the question

I wish one of you MEDIA types would ask TFN exactly how long he has been trying to address the staffing crisis (this is the one question he seems to dodge wonderfuly well).

Despite the fact he actually created the current disaster, he has been in the job for nearly four years and yet he is still shifting the blame to others, claiming that Mr B S left the place in a state (give me a break).

After the 7.30 report one would have thought he has just arrived and is striving to save the situation OMG what a laugh!

TFN is engaged in a cover up to save his own arse. I believe it will only be a matter of time before PC and his like get the bullet the final act of cowardice to save his bonus.

Thats another question, how on earth did he get his massive bonus if when he arrived he had identified a lack of staff planning yet we are still in the sh*thouse.

Given TSIT when fully cranked up with the masses of resources thrown at it could pump out a max of 50-70 trainees a year the current academy stands a snowflakes chance in hell of achieving 500 in 5 years.

Sorry, I forgot that the staff situation will be solved next month. I guess the TGO's featured in the TWR simulator footage on the 7.30 report are progressing extremely well.

BgTFN
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 12:51
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Wasn't just TGO's shown in the new tower sim...... lots of others shown there in the other sim I'm told. No 'real' air traffic controllers there to film? Guess not......
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 13:10
  #96 (permalink)  
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Elmer Fudd .. and co .. ... yup, the college pinnacle
.
.
... hey old Disney pig a.k.a da guru (in yer own lunch box) ... be careful what you say about real controllers mate .. she would run rings around you all day, every day, 365 days a year ... every year!
.
... ya fool!!

Last edited by Scurvy.D.Dog; 2nd Aug 2008 at 14:13.
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 16:25
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For the record journalist types - Mr Russell was repeatedly told in 4 separate "no BS" meetings with Brisbane ATC staff in 2005, that a "lack of ATC staffing" was the most critical issue to the business. Up to 40 staff members attended each of these meetings that were held over several days in the Brisbane ATSC. They were specifically requested by the CEO himself to address "staff concerns". He cannot now say on the 1930 Report that he was not aware of how serious the problem was. HE WAS CLEARLY TOLD !! HE WAS CLEARLY WARNED !! He has had three years to fix the problem. No result.

A vote of no confidence please...
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 23:46
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up Fitting sentiments:

The use of Common Sense and his close friend Logic is banned in the Pacific.
They are too confusing....

An Obituary printed in the London Times........ interesting and sadly
rather true.

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
* Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
* Why the early bird gets the worm;
* Life isn't always fair;
* and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,
are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens
suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher
fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student;
but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted
to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust
his wife, Discretion his daughter, Responsibility his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
* I Know My Rights
* I Want It Now
* Someone Else Is To Blame
* I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If
you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do
nothing.

Recieved from an OLD friend & retired Aviator/pilot, rather fitting I think!

Chr's
H/Snort.
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Old 3rd Aug 2008, 01:28
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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MEDIA TYPES: this ongoing excuse of "not having a staffing plan" when TFN arrived 3 years ago is wearing thin.

How much time would it take to look at employee records and just graph the age profile? 3 years ago, there were 1000 ATC'ers - give or take - any clerk could have gotten a rough outline of just the age profile in less than a week.

Then all they had to do was remember that in 2005:
i) most aged late 40's are allowed to access their superannuation at 50,
ii) late 30's/early 40's are allowed to access their super at 55
etc.

without even having to ask individual intentions/personal circumstance, a rough outline of staffing requirements due retirement could have been formed quickly and with little effort. It's not a black art - it's basic maths.

being aware/reminded that the recruitment and selection process typically takes 12 months, and training at the college another 12 months [with pass rates ranging from 50% to 75% or original intake], then a further 6 months to initial endorsment, and up to 5 years to become a full performance controller should have helped them realise they were potentially already behind the eight ball.

and we told them they were at the staff meetings in 2005.

Obviously our concerns were not taken seriously. But to take 107 controllers away from separating traffic at the end of 2007, with no surge in recruitment...... well, by then, TFN had 2 years in the organisation to realise it really does take 2 to 2+1/2 years to get replacements....

there is just no way TFN could have been ignorant of this potential situation. And not to fix in 3 years - well there's a word for that, starting with N, but I don't want to get done for libel.

but I guess it's sooooo much easier to try and blame (or create) "renegade controllers" for the current "service interruptions"
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Old 3rd Aug 2008, 03:58
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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I can no longer find the current certified agreement on the wagenet.gov.au site. Can anyone else see it?
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