Airservices Australia ADS-B program - another Seasprite Fiasco?
Flying Binghi- Time for Rebuttal!
This thread was started on 24/06/08 at 10:52
Light Aircraft Could Be Used as Bombs starts the same day at 05:52
you make your first post on this thread at 21:52
on the 24th on Bomb Thread GBZ posts-
On the 25th at 00:52 you post on the bomb thread. You, as a good pilot defend aviation by trying to draw attention to other means of terrorism like Fire Bombing and Anthrax attacks.
and
You then get a free primer on what terrorism really means to the people of England who have been directly affected by terrorism.
On the 27/06/08 at 08:34 You post here
It would appear that you haven't quite worked out a good argument for this yet.
At 08:53 on the Bomb thread, Robin posts-
08:59You reply-
???
Now this is where things get fuzzy. In reply to SDD at 11:13 you say-
Question, Why go from an anti-conspiracy theorist in the Bomb thread to
a believer in the very real threat of terrorism here? And why the need to remove posts expressing your main fear of GPS? Your post-
Is quite revealing!
At 13:38 on the Bomb thread, RatherBeFlying posts-
Flying Binghi is never seen on this thread again. Funny thing, from here on Flying Binghi firms up on his scenario for the terrorist UAV. It is too much for just co-incidence. Not very original.
Up to this point Binghi was trying to use SA or Solar Interference for his argument. I put it to him he uses the Bomb thread to formulate his attack on this thread opposing ADS-B use of GPS.
other arguments about reliance on a system with no back-ups by comparison with the fall over of Optus. Falls over by comparison to GPS argument.
I have to ask. Flying Binghi, why do you personally oppose ADS-B? Surely, it isn't your fear of a foreign controlled navigation system. Nor is it a fear of foreign attack. So, why do you oppose on these grounds?
This thread was started on 24/06/08 at 10:52
Light Aircraft Could Be Used as Bombs starts the same day at 05:52
you make your first post on this thread at 21:52
What happens to ADS-B when civvy GPS is turned off?
OK, entering into the spirit of fantasy and paranoia; how about, say, a flexwing microlight with a shaped charge IED in the nose? I'm sure any self respecting terr could knock together 100 lb weight of high impulse explosive with some light metal and foam plastic to direct its energy.
Why would osama waste his time with light aircraft - Heck, take 20 litres of petrol to the local night club and burn, baby burn
Has every body foregotten the Anthrax scare post 9-elleven ? It was actualy a big concern for most people - far more-so then aircraft
Unforetunatly it doesnt have the same evening TV news effect as aircraft flying into buildings, probably why most have foregotten all about it
WHO needs an aircraft when you can post it
Unforetunatly it doesnt have the same evening TV news effect as aircraft flying into buildings, probably why most have foregotten all about it
WHO needs an aircraft when you can post it
On the 27/06/08 at 08:34 You post here
Theres still one big problem with ADS-B... What happens when the civy GPS signal is lost ?
At 08:53 on the Bomb thread, Robin posts-
GA of my sort is not an effective threat in any conceivable way. Someone wanting to fly out of a farm strip would have to have completed the NPPL at least and then worked on strip flying for a bit - that is not the way that terrorists work.
They use low-tech tecniques and do it in the easiest possible way - forget about low end-GA. It is yet another scare story from a government who needs to keep us worried
They use low-tech tecniques and do it in the easiest possible way - forget about low end-GA. It is yet another scare story from a government who needs to keep us worried
robin, Youve got that right. We are all aware of the governments intelligent and extremely well thought out response to an earlier terrorist event - INVADE IRAQ that helped to calm the fanatics
Now this is where things get fuzzy. In reply to SDD at 11:13 you say-
Thanks for the links scurvy, You probably havnt read my previous posts on 'why' the GPS signal maybe turned off, I tend to remove the posts fairly quikly. They were about UA-Vehicles and the miss-use off.
a believer in the very real threat of terrorism here? And why the need to remove posts expressing your main fear of GPS? Your post-
It is unforetunate that as a pilot I have to piont out alternate possibilities (petrol at the night club scenario) to counter these 'seen to be doing something' reports (or is that 'inflating their own self importance' reports) that focus on aviation as THE threat.
At 13:38 on the Bomb thread, RatherBeFlying posts-
Why bother with a C-172 when you can do up a UAV?
A recent NOTAM hereabouts disclosed that a UAV 17' long with a 22' wingspan was lurking about at heights up to 700' AGL. The computer can take care of the flying and the GPS can pinpoint delivery. Takeoff can be done from a deserted parking lot at night.But that's too much work compared to loading up a car with explosives. And the jihadis are not about to knock off their best recruiters; so, the occupants of 10 Downing St and the WH have no worries
A recent NOTAM hereabouts disclosed that a UAV 17' long with a 22' wingspan was lurking about at heights up to 700' AGL. The computer can take care of the flying and the GPS can pinpoint delivery. Takeoff can be done from a deserted parking lot at night.But that's too much work compared to loading up a car with explosives. And the jihadis are not about to knock off their best recruiters; so, the occupants of 10 Downing St and the WH have no worries
Up to this point Binghi was trying to use SA or Solar Interference for his argument. I put it to him he uses the Bomb thread to formulate his attack on this thread opposing ADS-B use of GPS.
other arguments about reliance on a system with no back-ups by comparison with the fall over of Optus. Falls over by comparison to GPS argument.
I have to ask. Flying Binghi, why do you personally oppose ADS-B? Surely, it isn't your fear of a foreign controlled navigation system. Nor is it a fear of foreign attack. So, why do you oppose on these grounds?
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 29th Jul 2008 at 12:33.
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..... well well .... the previous two posts 
demonstrate with stark clarity the fact that the 'buzz-ing (we'll all be rooned) doomsayers' in this debate have had their hypocritcal fly's well and truly unzipped all along 
.
Last edited by Scurvy.D.Dog; 29th Jul 2008 at 15:28.
OZBUSDRIVER, for one thing, I think you have missed the piont of my comments about the detectabilitie of an 'in-house' terrorist event ... or is it, yet again, you are attempting to deliberatly miss-represent what I post 
I see some more of the same again. ... oh, and I thought I was on your 'ignore' list, youve written it three times now 
OZBUSDRIVER, I still dont see any rebutle to the GPS guided Buzz Bomb scenario in your post. I do see a lot of distracters though
I'm a bit mistified what my input into the "Light Aircraft could Be used as Bombs" thread has to do with this thread ? After all, I'm putting the scenario to this thread which is ADS-B and by association GPS.
I have been covering the GPS guided Buzz Bomb scenario pria to this thread under the UAV moniker ... and, I dont recall saying I was the inventer of the idea. ...Soooo, OZBUSDRIVER, I'm wondering what your piont is. As I've written before, several times, I'm an aircraft owner and pilot with some concerns, and concerns that have received many near hysterical responses in this thread
And, OZBUSDRIVER, if your going to do quotes, better do it showing just what part of the other persons post I was refering too.
Re. the "Light Aircraft could Be used as Bombs" thread -
The section of the "robin" post I referenced - (notice my mention of the Iraq invasion ... whats that weapon inspector chaps name ... Walter Mitty, was it ?) via my post 119 -
My reply, (post 119) -
Think I'll sit back again and watch for a while
.
I see some more of the same again. ... oh, and I thought I was on your 'ignore' list, youve written it three times now OZBUSDRIVER, I still dont see any rebutle to the GPS guided Buzz Bomb scenario in your post. I do see a lot of distracters though
It would appear that you haven't quite worked out a good argument for this yet
I have been covering the GPS guided Buzz Bomb scenario pria to this thread under the UAV moniker ... and, I dont recall saying I was the inventer of the idea. ...Soooo, OZBUSDRIVER, I'm wondering what your piont is. As I've written before, several times, I'm an aircraft owner and pilot with some concerns, and concerns that have received many near hysterical responses in this thread
And, OZBUSDRIVER, if your going to do quotes, better do it showing just what part of the other persons post I was refering too.
Re. the "Light Aircraft could Be used as Bombs" thread -
The section of the "robin" post I referenced - (notice my mention of the Iraq invasion ... whats that weapon inspector chaps name ... Walter Mitty, was it ?) via my post 119 -
"It is yet another scare story from a government who needs to keep us worried"
robin, Youve got that right.
We are all aware of the governments intelligent and extremely well thought out response to an earlier terrorist event - INVADE IRAQ
..... that helped to calm the fanatics
We are all aware of the governments intelligent and extremely well thought out response to an earlier terrorist event - INVADE IRAQ
..... that helped to calm the fanatics
Think I'll sit back again and watch for a while
.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 30th Jul 2008 at 07:31.
Binghi,say G'Day to Bob for me
Oh sorry, I see you have changed your TUNE you have gone from undetectable out of country terrorist attacks to "in-house" terrorist attacks.
Your argument is borrowed and irrelevant. And, what makes it worse, you made me read eight pages of drivel you call posts to compile this mess
Oh sorry, I see you have changed your TUNE you have gone from undetectable out of country terrorist attacks to "in-house" terrorist attacks.
Your argument is borrowed and irrelevant. And, what makes it worse, you made me read eight pages of drivel you call posts to compile this mess
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 29th Jul 2008 at 22:02.
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FB
When I gave you that quote
I was under the impression you may have been a fair dinkum poster.
I agree with OZBUS. Having read what you have posted long-term on this thread - and I must say your posts remind me of another's style - I'll give you another quote that probably has more relevance to my assessment of the buzz bomb scenario.
FB walks onto the farm and says 'can you use me on the land' and the farmer says 'we have fertiliser for that'.
PS Before anyone asks I'm only passing through quickly as I am way way in arrears. But, to answer two questions - one on here, one on another thread:
First, you do NOT need an extra transponder for MODE C when operating ADS-B. The ES unit - being smart (unlike some posts hereon) provides the ADS-B signal, PLUS Mode C under TCAS or MSSR interrogation.
Second, my research has obtained the legal information sought on another thread but, because of the circumstances (to be revealed in about two months) I am not passing on the detail on here.
When I gave you that quote
'outstanding in my field'
I agree with OZBUS. Having read what you have posted long-term on this thread - and I must say your posts remind me of another's style - I'll give you another quote that probably has more relevance to my assessment of the buzz bomb scenario.
FB walks onto the farm and says 'can you use me on the land' and the farmer says 'we have fertiliser for that'.
PS Before anyone asks I'm only passing through quickly as I am way way in arrears. But, to answer two questions - one on here, one on another thread:
First, you do NOT need an extra transponder for MODE C when operating ADS-B. The ES unit - being smart (unlike some posts hereon) provides the ADS-B signal, PLUS Mode C under TCAS or MSSR interrogation.
Second, my research has obtained the legal information sought on another thread but, because of the circumstances (to be revealed in about two months) I am not passing on the detail on here.
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jabawocky;
One may ask from the representatives from the "lighter" side if they agree with the enthusiasts shoving this stuff down our neck, or do they just know what's best for their members?
OK then, the subsidy (bribe), if it comes about, they are for it, right? But are they all really agin it, if there is no subsidy? Or does Dick get it anyway?
Edit to add for the cryptic previous post: My own research has obtained legal information but, because of the circumstances I am not passing on the detail on here because it involves a change to my will that involves lost cats and dogs and old Ladies and, I am cutting a few out of my Christmas card list, but I may tell someone, if I feel like it one day.
Check your oil dipstick.
One may ask from the representatives from the "lighter" side if they agree with the enthusiasts shoving this stuff down our neck, or do they just know what's best for their members?
OK then, the subsidy (bribe), if it comes about, they are for it, right? But are they all really agin it, if there is no subsidy? Or does Dick get it anyway?
Edit to add for the cryptic previous post: My own research has obtained legal information but, because of the circumstances I am not passing on the detail on here because it involves a change to my will that involves lost cats and dogs and old Ladies and, I am cutting a few out of my Christmas card list, but I may tell someone, if I feel like it one day.
Check your oil dipstick.
Last edited by Bob Murphie; 30th Jul 2008 at 06:43.
I was under the impression you may have been a fair dinkum poster.
Second, my research has obtained the legal information sought on another thread but, because of the circumstances (to be revealed in about two months) I am not passing on the detail on here.
... keep us posted james michael
Did you love the section 7 bit, so many responses and so many plagairised copys...... sorry form letters.
Really makes you wonder how the credibility of further inputs from the lighter end of town will be treated.
I think they shot themselves in the foot here
Really makes you wonder how the credibility of further inputs from the lighter end of town will be treated.
I think they shot themselves in the foot here
Thankyou for that post and comment Jabawocky, we can see you hold the Ultralighters in high regard ... or is that contempt ?
.............................................
I'm in one of those moods
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Running outa puff they are 
.
The we'll all be roon'd boy's who cried Play the ball and not the man .... continue to Play the man and not the ball ...
.
Whose boring, repetitive and bereft of a substantiatible opinion eh BF?
.
The we'll all be roon'd boy's who cried Play the ball and not the man
.... continue to Play the man and not the ball ... .
Whose boring, repetitive and bereft of a substantiatible opinion eh BF?
Bob, your view is just a matter of your perspective. You just have to realise that it isn't the same as everyone else. Look, come the revolution your back wont be to the wall, you just miss out on some airspace you probably do not use. So, what right do you have to say your way or the highway to the people who actually have to fly in the airspace that will be affected by any change.
What worries me now is how much damage Mr Smith is causing behind the scenes.Is there any way we could set up a campaign to thwart Mr Smith's advances? I believe he is now the biggest threat to ADS-B implimentation.
What worries me now is how much damage Mr Smith is causing behind the scenes.Is there any way we could set up a campaign to thwart Mr Smith's advances? I believe he is now the biggest threat to ADS-B implimentation.
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In the cess pool but superior?
" Really makes you wonder how the credibility of further inputs from the lighter end of town"
How can someone that flies a Jabiru; somehow think they are superior because it has VH numbers on the side..........I'm sure to believe the post from someone like that.
Self Contempt...now there's a good start!
In the cess pool but superior?
" Really makes you wonder how the credibility of further inputs from the lighter end of town"
How can someone that flies a Jabiru; somehow think they are superior because it has VH numbers on the side..........I'm sure to believe the post from someone like that.
Self Contempt...now there's a good start!
" Really makes you wonder how the credibility of further inputs from the lighter end of town"
How can someone that flies a Jabiru; somehow think they are superior because it has VH numbers on the side..........I'm sure to believe the post from someone like that.
Self Contempt...now there's a good start!
Got youreself a new call sign, eh Jabawocky
Drifter flyer, welcome to the land of PPRuNe. It's got little to do with contempt and more to do with substance. The JCP revue showed a number of people from the recreational end of town didn't actually read the paper. If you do fly a drifter and do not fly out of a CTAF(R) nor ABV5000 then you need neither a transponder nor a radio. You will always be exempt from having to fit an ADS-B transponder to your aircraft. Same for hang gliders.
Misinformation is rife.
If on the other hand you upgrade to an MCR-01 or a Millenium Master then, different kettle of fish. Operationally you would like to fly these little speedsters as high as you can get. It would be very prudent to get a controlled airspace sign off, a radio and a transponder. This type of aircraft would be eligable for the ADS-B subsidy.
Your drifter flying is not affected. However your opposition affects those who actually want to use that airspace. Please take this into consideration. Please check the facts to ensure your position to prove to yourself where and when you need to fit a radio and transponder. RAA will always remain for all its members not just the ones who fly plastic fantastics as a lot of rag and tube people fear. I am pretty sure they will never forget their roots. I am also pretty sure that RAA will fight tooth and nail to protect a blanket application for fitment to all of its aircraft register. Only those aircraft who fly into CTAF(R) and ABV 5000ft need to be included in the rollout.
Misinformation is rife.
If on the other hand you upgrade to an MCR-01 or a Millenium Master then, different kettle of fish. Operationally you would like to fly these little speedsters as high as you can get. It would be very prudent to get a controlled airspace sign off, a radio and a transponder. This type of aircraft would be eligable for the ADS-B subsidy.
Your drifter flying is not affected. However your opposition affects those who actually want to use that airspace. Please take this into consideration. Please check the facts to ensure your position to prove to yourself where and when you need to fit a radio and transponder. RAA will always remain for all its members not just the ones who fly plastic fantastics as a lot of rag and tube people fear. I am pretty sure they will never forget their roots. I am also pretty sure that RAA will fight tooth and nail to protect a blanket application for fitment to all of its aircraft register. Only those aircraft who fly into CTAF(R) and ABV 5000ft need to be included in the rollout.
Drifter flyer, welcome to the land of PPRuNe. It's got little to do with contempt and more to do with substance. The JCP revue showed a number of people from the recreational end of town didn't actually read the paper. If you do fly a drifter and do not fly out of a CTAF(R) nor ABV5000 then you need neither a transponder nor a radio. You will always be exempt from having to fit an ADS-B transponder to your aircraft. Same for hang gliders.
Misinformation is rife.
If on the other hand you upgrade to an MCR-01 or a Millenium Master then, different kettle of fish. Operationally you would like to fly these little speedsters as high as you can get. It would be very prudent to get a controlled airspace sign off, a radio and a transponder. This type of aircraft would be eligable for the ADS-B subsidy.
Your drifter flying is not affected. However your opposition affects those who actually want to use that airspace. Please take this into consideration. Please check the facts to ensure your position to prove to yourself where and when you need to fit a radio and transponder. RAA will always remain for all its members not just the ones who fly plastic fantastics as a lot of rag and tube people fear. I am pretty sure they will never forget their roots. I am also pretty sure that RAA will fight tooth and nail to protect a blanket application for fitment to all of its aircraft register. Only those aircraft who fly into CTAF(R) and ABV 5000ft need to be included in the rollout.
Misinformation is rife.
If on the other hand you upgrade to an MCR-01 or a Millenium Master then, different kettle of fish. Operationally you would like to fly these little speedsters as high as you can get. It would be very prudent to get a controlled airspace sign off, a radio and a transponder. This type of aircraft would be eligable for the ADS-B subsidy.
Your drifter flying is not affected. However your opposition affects those who actually want to use that airspace. Please take this into consideration. Please check the facts to ensure your position to prove to yourself where and when you need to fit a radio and transponder. RAA will always remain for all its members not just the ones who fly plastic fantastics as a lot of rag and tube people fear. I am pretty sure they will never forget their roots. I am also pretty sure that RAA will fight tooth and nail to protect a blanket application for fitment to all of its aircraft register. Only those aircraft who fly into CTAF(R) and ABV 5000ft need to be included in the rollout.
Now, OZBUSDRIVER, how about re-instating the removed parts of your earlyier post ... thats the one where you covered NORAD (post 762) I was looking forward to addressing all parts of that post
perhaps you could ask tailwheel to re-instate it for you
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FB
Nahhhhh mate, no new call signs here. But I think this new recruit will find the waters a bit deeper here and the sharks far less tolerating of childish posts.
Drifter driver....... You need some chill pills mate. You most likely have no idea what various a/c I fly, because if you did you would not make that one idiotic post.
SDD what did you say about playing the ball v the man? Some people do not get it hey!
And back to FB who asked a serious question albeit off track.
FB let me make this quite clear..... I DO NOT! The fact is the many submissions received were basically "No under any circumstances votes" and were exposed as being under researched due to the kinds of questions asked, (read the report) and to make matters worse an equal number were just "form letters".
It stands out like blood on snow, that the vast majority of the "Light end of Flying" objected with very little sensible arguement, otherwise it would have been printed, rather than the few statements many of which were not that strong. When the report goes to the length of making this comment.....
....... one has to ask, what were they thinking?
Now the fact is you can not tell on the face of the report exactly who wrote what and from which groups, and thats fine, the lighter end being gliders HGFA, RAA, it does not matter as such, however it would appear that many of the "Donkey votes' may have come from RAA ranks who were campaigned quite heavily by the RAA in magazine articles and other forums to object.
Now...........THE MAIN POINT, regardless whether it was RAA, HGFA GFA or all three or just a random selection of all three groups, when you get a result like that and the comment made that a considerable number had not read the JCP or understood it.......it smells fishy and does not paint a good picture for those groups in the eyes of those processing and evaluating the report. Any sensible objective reader would have to think...... can't take these submissions all that seriously, they never read the JCP and just wrote form letters objecting for the sake of objecting.
Just in case you are wondering..... I do have and have had for many years RAA membership, I have many friends with various a/c types in RAA categories and I keep my lic. for the purpose of flying some fun machines from time to time or when need be for whatever reason. I do believe they are a fantastic group and provide for many people a great opportunity. I do just believe that in this case they and the others involved in those submissions shot themselves and all their members in the foot. This as a member displeases me greatly.
The fact I am pro ADSB has nothing at all to do with my opinions above.
J
Got youreself a new call sign, eh Jabawocky
Drifter driver....... You need some chill pills mate. You most likely have no idea what various a/c I fly, because if you did you would not make that one idiotic post.
SDD what did you say about playing the ball v the man? Some people do not get it hey!
And back to FB who asked a serious question albeit off track.
we can see you hold the Ultralighters in high regard ... or is that contempt ?
It stands out like blood on snow, that the vast majority of the "Light end of Flying" objected with very little sensible arguement, otherwise it would have been printed, rather than the few statements many of which were not that strong. When the report goes to the length of making this comment.....
A considerable number of respondents had not read or had misunderstood the JCP,
with objections including:
with objections including:
Now the fact is you can not tell on the face of the report exactly who wrote what and from which groups, and thats fine, the lighter end being gliders HGFA, RAA, it does not matter as such, however it would appear that many of the "Donkey votes' may have come from RAA ranks who were campaigned quite heavily by the RAA in magazine articles and other forums to object.
Now...........THE MAIN POINT, regardless whether it was RAA, HGFA GFA or all three or just a random selection of all three groups, when you get a result like that and the comment made that a considerable number had not read the JCP or understood it.......it smells fishy and does not paint a good picture for those groups in the eyes of those processing and evaluating the report. Any sensible objective reader would have to think...... can't take these submissions all that seriously, they never read the JCP and just wrote form letters objecting for the sake of objecting.
Just in case you are wondering..... I do have and have had for many years RAA membership, I have many friends with various a/c types in RAA categories and I keep my lic. for the purpose of flying some fun machines from time to time or when need be for whatever reason. I do believe they are a fantastic group and provide for many people a great opportunity. I do just believe that in this case they and the others involved in those submissions shot themselves and all their members in the foot. This as a member displeases me greatly.
The fact I am pro ADSB has nothing at all to do with my opinions above.
J
Nahhhhh mate, no new call signs here. But I think this new recruit will find the waters a bit deeper here and the sharks far less tolerating of childish posts.
Drifter driver....... You need some chill pills mate. You most likely have no idea what various a/c I fly, because if you did you would not make that one idiotic post.
SDD what did you say about playing the ball v the man? Some people do not get it hey!
Drifter driver....... You need some chill pills mate. You most likely have no idea what various a/c I fly, because if you did you would not make that one idiotic post.
SDD what did you say about playing the ball v the man? Some people do not get it hey!
re. playing the "ball and not the man" ... good idea, apart from much silly abuse I am yet to see any real challange to the GPS Guided Buzz Bomb scenario .................. care to play the ball Jabawocky
Looks like I will have to post the entire scenario again, for the umpteenth time, and see if somebody can provide a direct rebutale with-out going postle on me
I see OZBUSDRIVER had an attempt at a rebutale in a previous post then, probably after somebody pionted out the major flaws in the aurgument, the post was edited. Be interesting to see OZBUSDRIVER put those edited comments back up ... somehow I dont think that will happen
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 31st Jul 2008 at 01:20.
I'm in one of those moods
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FB said..
.. mirror mirror on the wall....
It has been answered in every aspect by many people many times .... you just choose not to acknowledge it! ... therefore:-
.. whose the greatest hypocrite of them all?
.
.
Give it up Bingo, you sound like an excessive compulsive member of the sceptics society
.... give him my worst regards would you 
....yep, ring-in
re. playing the "ball and not the man" ... good idea, apart from much silly abuse I am yet to see any real challange to the GPS Guided Buzz Bomb scenario
.. whose the greatest hypocrite of them all?
.
.
Give it up Bingo, you sound like an excessive compulsive member of the sceptics society
.... give him my worst regards would you
Last edited by Scurvy.D.Dog; 31st Jul 2008 at 00:07.
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OZBUSDRIVER;
This has just about been done to death. You and I both believe each is out of step with the rest of the World and nothing is going to change our respective minds.
Regards perspective, I can understand Airservices position and accept Regionals wanting "sterile" airspace, but you and I are both private pilots (read that as amateur), with no real impact being brought to bear on either of us whichever way things turn out.
What fuels your passion?
This has just about been done to death. You and I both believe each is out of step with the rest of the World and nothing is going to change our respective minds.
Regards perspective, I can understand Airservices position and accept Regionals wanting "sterile" airspace, but you and I are both private pilots (read that as amateur), with no real impact being brought to bear on either of us whichever way things turn out.
What fuels your passion?