QF LH EBA 8 Has been signed off!!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
None of the LH guys have have seen it yet so how can it be signed sealed and delivered?
Still a vote to go as well. This is just a little premature don't you think?
Still a vote to go as well. This is just a little premature don't you think?
None of the LH guys have have seen it yet so how can it be signed sealed and delivered?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is worth noting that the EBA has been drawn up by a protaganist unlikely to have to live with the "unknowns" for the next 30 years. When one views it with this in mind, the benefits acrue to guess who?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I alluded to the guy "negotiating" or giving away lots will not have to live with it. I will and so will junior colleagues.
Last time it was a Singapore basing, not for Captains of course, just for junior pilots..Not costed nor understood in terms of the tax implications it would have assigned the most junior pilots to a very precarious position. It ought be noted that the Captains would not have had to live in Singapore...The Captains would have got their 3% irrespective of the plight of junior pilots.
As a result, we offloaded the junta to be replaced by another. This time the pay cut goes to guess who???
Just wait till you see the summary dismissal provisions, or the inaility to change aircraft types...
Last time it was a Singapore basing, not for Captains of course, just for junior pilots..Not costed nor understood in terms of the tax implications it would have assigned the most junior pilots to a very precarious position. It ought be noted that the Captains would not have had to live in Singapore...The Captains would have got their 3% irrespective of the plight of junior pilots.
As a result, we offloaded the junta to be replaced by another. This time the pay cut goes to guess who???
Just wait till you see the summary dismissal provisions, or the inaility to change aircraft types...
Nunc est bibendum
The pay cut goes to no one. Not a single soul gets a pay cut. Having crunched the numbers quite extensively by now- albeit only numbers I got through a phone call- I find it laughable that people would be talking about AIPA caving in and 'settling', etc.
Discussing what the EBA is worth in specific terms of percentage pay rises on PPRUNE or any other vaguely public forum- including Qrewroom- is wrought with danger. It still needs to be signed off by both QF and AIPA COM and public discussion as to what it entails puts in jeopardy aspects of it. If you're a QF driver with some concerns then send me a PM either here or on Qrewroom- preferably Qrewroom- with some specific details about your circumstances and future career plans and I'll tell you what I reckon your pay will be like.
Until we've seen the numbers and had the chance to digest the totality of the package, anything else is just rumour. I haven't looked into everyone's circumstances but most of us will do pretty well.
Discussing what the EBA is worth in specific terms of percentage pay rises on PPRUNE or any other vaguely public forum- including Qrewroom- is wrought with danger. It still needs to be signed off by both QF and AIPA COM and public discussion as to what it entails puts in jeopardy aspects of it. If you're a QF driver with some concerns then send me a PM either here or on Qrewroom- preferably Qrewroom- with some specific details about your circumstances and future career plans and I'll tell you what I reckon your pay will be like.
Until we've seen the numbers and had the chance to digest the totality of the package, anything else is just rumour. I haven't looked into everyone's circumstances but most of us will do pretty well.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no place for debate.
There has been no asking of members what they would like.
It has been driven by old men looking to squeeze a few more dollars for their own pocket.
The details are scant
however looking through the bling, there are many downsides and given the extensive rewrite there is real concern that this thing will be shoved through.
Given the duration it has taken to put this document together I sincerely hope people look beyond the bling and not assume what used to be an EXPLICIT term will be covered by implied terms...Most of the pilots know where implied terms have gotten us so far...
There has been no asking of members what they would like.
It has been driven by old men looking to squeeze a few more dollars for their own pocket.
The details are scant
however looking through the bling, there are many downsides and given the extensive rewrite there is real concern that this thing will be shoved through.
- Summary dismissal provisions incredibly vague-but that produces a compliant workforce
- Overtime to be paid after more hours of duty
- Limited career moves for junior pilots(how many of S/O and F/O will want to withdraw their bids and awarded slots??
Given the duration it has taken to put this document together I sincerely hope people look beyond the bling and not assume what used to be an EXPLICIT term will be covered by implied terms...Most of the pilots know where implied terms have gotten us so far...
There is a spread sheet out from a committee member that shows a 400 S/O year 10 is approx 9% worse off after 5 years of this EBA. That doesnt cover the lost wages from lack of promotion caused by a divisor of 185 with the ability to open the window to 195. It is a shocking result for 2 years of negotiation. We should have taken 3% x 5 years and kept the status quo. If this gets up it will haunt the younger pilots in Qantas in years to come.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: messemate way to bondi icebergs
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Interesting Dragon man
The S/Os (like all) should read this EBA8 very carefully. I thought that by not fattening up the S/Os coffers, it would entice them to upgrade and be more usefull to the company. But higher divisers will mean slowing promotion - didnt think of that. When is the Sydney AIPA info day?
The S/Os (like all) should read this EBA8 very carefully. I thought that by not fattening up the S/Os coffers, it would entice them to upgrade and be more usefull to the company. But higher divisers will mean slowing promotion - didnt think of that. When is the Sydney AIPA info day?
Nunc est bibendum
Dragon man, no doubt you've seen my comments on Qrewroom. Any S/O on the 744 who has been there for 10 years is senior enough to be an F/O on the 744. Yes, they won't get a pay rise until the S/O year 7 pay rate exceeds there current pay rate and that's about three or four years away. However, if they take promotion to the 767 they'll do much better out of it in the medium to long term. When they upgrade to Captain they'll do better again. We've replaced a 12 year pay scale with a 21 year pay scale where the top is much higher than it was previously.
Those who take promotion within the first seven years are looking at a significantly better pay deal than under the previous EBA.
There may be many things to vote 'no' in this EBA, pay is not one of them when considered over the entirety of a career.
The increased divisors will come at the cost of about 21 commands and 42 F/O slots. Twenty one F/Os that replace the guys that got promoted and 21 for the extra flying required to be done due to the lower divisor. Given that QF already runs up hard against those higher divisors a few times a year we're probably at the right establishment for them anyway.
Now, can we take it back to Qrewroom?
Those who take promotion within the first seven years are looking at a significantly better pay deal than under the previous EBA.
There may be many things to vote 'no' in this EBA, pay is not one of them when considered over the entirety of a career.
The increased divisors will come at the cost of about 21 commands and 42 F/O slots. Twenty one F/Os that replace the guys that got promoted and 21 for the extra flying required to be done due to the lower divisor. Given that QF already runs up hard against those higher divisors a few times a year we're probably at the right establishment for them anyway.
Now, can we take it back to Qrewroom?
In all fairness, while there are a few 10 year S/Os they aren't exactly in the majority in Qantas and have been making a disproportionate amount of noise on qrewroom. Take a bloody promotion fellas!!!
Nunc est bibendum
Easy TL, some of them can't. Those guys have my sympathy. 
For those that chose to stay, well then you get into an interesting discussion about whether it's 'fair' that the gravy train has come to a stop for S/Os on the 744 and been moved onto a twin engine track for F/Os and Captains. I don't expect that many of the 767 crew will give too much thought to the issue. Sad that we have to have the discussion to start off with but anyone with an eye on promotion will not vote 'no' on this EBA due to the pay. They may find other reasons- and I've found one if it's not clarified as I'd like- but it won't be the rates of pay.
For those that chose to stay, well then you get into an interesting discussion about whether it's 'fair' that the gravy train has come to a stop for S/Os on the 744 and been moved onto a twin engine track for F/Os and Captains. I don't expect that many of the 767 crew will give too much thought to the issue. Sad that we have to have the discussion to start off with but anyone with an eye on promotion will not vote 'no' on this EBA due to the pay. They may find other reasons- and I've found one if it's not clarified as I'd like- but it won't be the rates of pay.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of most concern is the limit on training allocations through the career. Certainly given this goal post change, many bids would have been different in the current round of allocations. It also changes the whole seniority for rostering basis given that people will stay in rank now longer on a particular type. I certainly would have bid differently given the above goalpost changes.
Surely vertical promotion has to go now. I also wonder how junior the 380 F/O slots will go?
Surely vertical promotion has to go now. I also wonder how junior the 380 F/O slots will go?