QF LH EBA 8 Has been signed off!!
Keg, all i want is transperency. Dont try and dress the mutton up as lamb. This new agreement was drafted up with no consultation or input from the membership. It has taken 2 years and has seen us go from being in the drivers seat to being well on the back of the power curve. The only real pay benefits go to the 767 ( and good luck to them), but that will probably be gone in 6 or 7 years and the rest will have made big concessions for very little money.
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I guess transperancy will come once you are given the agreement to look at!
Until then why back it or hack it, simple as that you all will have options to think about when it comes to the vote! I would'nt say it's a done deal though damn, it is a done deal once a mojority vote for it. I for one automatically vote NO as a matter of choice obviously in the minority
Until then why back it or hack it, simple as that you all will have options to think about when it comes to the vote! I would'nt say it's a done deal though damn, it is a done deal once a mojority vote for it. I for one automatically vote NO as a matter of choice obviously in the minority
Nunc est bibendum
dragon man, you have to pick an issue and stick with it. Your previous comments were about pay and my figures suggest that over the 'typical' career in QF the pay will be better under EBA8. The real pay benefits go to 767/A330/787 pilots and even the 744 drivers end up better off in the short term although that tapers off a bit after a couple of years. Keep in mind the bonus as well.
With pay resolved, now your concerns are on the issue of consultation. I emailed AIPA with some thoughts a couple of years ago when they first asked the crew for input. I emailed some COM members semi-regularly since then to provide other thoughts and to seek updates. I was always acknowledged. I've spoken to Eytan and Barry a few times along the way also.
I'm with AoA though. I'm still a 'no' until I've seen the finalised document. That said, I still reckon the pay matters worth a 'yes'. The devil will be in the detail.
With pay resolved, now your concerns are on the issue of consultation. I emailed AIPA with some thoughts a couple of years ago when they first asked the crew for input. I emailed some COM members semi-regularly since then to provide other thoughts and to seek updates. I was always acknowledged. I've spoken to Eytan and Barry a few times along the way also.
I'm with AoA though. I'm still a 'no' until I've seen the finalised document. That said, I still reckon the pay matters worth a 'yes'. The devil will be in the detail.
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Having been involved directly in succesful union negotiations, I can state unequivocaly that the most succesful ones were those that did not involve public debate. It is time to handle this more like executives and control leaks than have the prospective pay rates published in the media with highly antagonistic spin against your membership.
Perhaps more simply; put a cork in it...the lot of you!
Perhaps more simply; put a cork in it...the lot of you!
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The problem is the existing document is over 650 pages, the new document is around 170. Given the reduction has taken over 18 months to do it is a worry that the membership are to be given some two weeks to understand the document. That is crap. One wonders why?
another month or two of scrutiny isn't going to affect anything unless The Fuhrer wants it signed off ASAP...
another month or two of scrutiny isn't going to affect anything unless The Fuhrer wants it signed off ASAP...
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Then you do it with closed door union roadshows after your elected representatives have had time to summarise it. Just as we did. Our contract is well over a 1000 pages long and comes with a summary book that's nearly 300. This is not something you read over a beer.
I'd be pretty concerned over a document that has been reduced. I have been asked to rewrite bylaws for a club that I belong to and it's impossible to do it and reduce ambiguity by not almost doubling the number of pages.
During the 1980s the NRMA started doing "Plain English" policies that were short and easy to read, until the claims came in and the solicitors started driving trucks through the language in the court room.
Making a document shorter and "easier" to understand is not necessarily a good thing.
I'd be pretty concerned over a document that has been reduced. I have been asked to rewrite bylaws for a club that I belong to and it's impossible to do it and reduce ambiguity by not almost doubling the number of pages.
During the 1980s the NRMA started doing "Plain English" policies that were short and easy to read, until the claims came in and the solicitors started driving trucks through the language in the court room.
Making a document shorter and "easier" to understand is not necessarily a good thing.
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Few autopsies have been conducted so publicly or so throroughly as on-line analysis of the recent Jetstar pilot EBA.
Is there any real reason why the wider Qantas group pilot body should not have the opportunity to know what's in the new L/H EBA and urge their Qantas colleagues which way to vote. It was recently made quite clear by AIPA that "One pilot's EBA is another pilot's future".....has that changed?
Is there any real reason why the wider Qantas group pilot body should not have the opportunity to know what's in the new L/H EBA and urge their Qantas colleagues which way to vote. It was recently made quite clear by AIPA that "One pilot's EBA is another pilot's future".....has that changed?
Genex,,
The JQ EBA was leaked by the stakeholders... and then out in a public forum for debate by all.
If you can get a stakeholder in this EBA to leak it, then the same will happen...
Regards.
The JQ EBA was leaked by the stakeholders... and then out in a public forum for debate by all.
If you can get a stakeholder in this EBA to leak it, then the same will happen...
Regards.
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The Rumour about eba 8
Gday troops,
First i must say that the FedExc, in my oponion have done a remarkable job.
The biggest test came, when a rumour was handed down throu reasonable channels.
>>>> A LOADED GUN >>>>> and this one is pointing at our own association !!!!!
FOD had made a threat.....
He was going to break the bank....the 4/5 million that the union has in the kitty, was going to be swallowed, in a few massive gulps....as the start of Litagiation was in the gun sites...damages against QF will begin.
Has this buckled our negotiation??
Why were the bands lifted ???
Is this why we crumbled ???
We all still have to vote !!!
I now eargly await the the propasal.
First i must say that the FedExc, in my oponion have done a remarkable job.
The biggest test came, when a rumour was handed down throu reasonable channels.
>>>> A LOADED GUN >>>>> and this one is pointing at our own association !!!!!
FOD had made a threat.....
He was going to break the bank....the 4/5 million that the union has in the kitty, was going to be swallowed, in a few massive gulps....as the start of Litagiation was in the gun sites...damages against QF will begin.
Has this buckled our negotiation??
Why were the bands lifted ???
Is this why we crumbled ???
We all still have to vote !!!
I now eargly await the the propasal.
Metrosexual
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Is there any real reason why the wider Qantas group pilot body should not have the opportunity to know what's in the new L/H EBA and urge their Qantas colleagues which way to vote. It was recently made quite clear by AIPA that "One pilot's EBA is another pilot's future".....has that changed?
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QFinsider wrote "The problem is the existing document is over 650 pages, the new document is around 170. Given the reduction has taken over 18 months to do it is a worry that the membership are to be given some two weeks to understand the document. That is crap. One wonders why?
another month or two of scrutiny isn't going to affect anything unless The Fuhrer wants it signed off ASAP... "
At least we'll get more time to consider this deal than we did for EBA 7!
another month or two of scrutiny isn't going to affect anything unless The Fuhrer wants it signed off ASAP... "
At least we'll get more time to consider this deal than we did for EBA 7!
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For what it's worth, if you are thinking of posting the QF EBA, why not take your finger off the SEND icon for a minute.
Run around your block a few times. Chase your dog around the yard.
Then take a cold shower, and reconsider the implications of what you're planning to do.
Just because Jetstar's EBA somehow found its way onto this forum doesn't mean any other EBA, Qantas' or otherwise, should do the same; two wrong's not making a right and all.
It'd make interesting reading, but it isn't really the public's to read.
Please don't do it, and this from a non-Qantas pilot.
Run around your block a few times. Chase your dog around the yard.
Then take a cold shower, and reconsider the implications of what you're planning to do.
Just because Jetstar's EBA somehow found its way onto this forum doesn't mean any other EBA, Qantas' or otherwise, should do the same; two wrong's not making a right and all.
It'd make interesting reading, but it isn't really the public's to read.
Please don't do it, and this from a non-Qantas pilot.
