Mega Merged: Latest Rex Media Releases re:Routes & the Pilot Shortage
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Mini Ansett
It is true that the output of the flying school will do nothing for the filling of the captains seats for the next 4-5 years. But it will solve the problems of filling the F/O seats at modest pay for years to come..!
You say that, for $10 per ticket, the problems are solved. That would be an additional $15 million per year!!! I don't doubt the willingness of management to charge it to the clients if they could......, but they certainly won't give it to the cockpit crews just like that!!
They (management) could be willing to pay the (30?) key C&T captains an additional $60,000 per year. That expense is only $1.8 million...! Classical devide and conquer tactics. For the other command seats there is the rest of Australia to do a bit of poaching themselves. You'd be surprised what quality would suddenly come out of the woodworks if the pay is OK. It would be relatively easy to keep the airline flying...! Remember Ansett, who lost ALL their pilots overnight? Didn't take them long to get going again....
The key is the 457 visas. There would be thousands of pilots in low wages countries who would love to come to live and fly in Australia for almost any pay! After an initial difficult period the costs of pilots could actually come out lower! It would also reduce inflation as well by keeping the tickets cheaper.
So, I'm not the devils advocate.., just a lot less optimistic than you about the motives that drive managements in general.
You say that, for $10 per ticket, the problems are solved. That would be an additional $15 million per year!!! I don't doubt the willingness of management to charge it to the clients if they could......, but they certainly won't give it to the cockpit crews just like that!!
They (management) could be willing to pay the (30?) key C&T captains an additional $60,000 per year. That expense is only $1.8 million...! Classical devide and conquer tactics. For the other command seats there is the rest of Australia to do a bit of poaching themselves. You'd be surprised what quality would suddenly come out of the woodworks if the pay is OK. It would be relatively easy to keep the airline flying...! Remember Ansett, who lost ALL their pilots overnight? Didn't take them long to get going again....
The key is the 457 visas. There would be thousands of pilots in low wages countries who would love to come to live and fly in Australia for almost any pay! After an initial difficult period the costs of pilots could actually come out lower! It would also reduce inflation as well by keeping the tickets cheaper.
So, I'm not the devils advocate.., just a lot less optimistic than you about the motives that drive managements in general.
Timber.
Did you actually bother to read my post.
Your assesment of the way REX management should or would handle this crisis is as irelevent as the Cadet program itself. Unless the attrition of experienced pilots is addressed now, REX will probably not be around by the time the first of them (Cadets) graduate.
Did you actually bother to read my post.
Your assesment of the way REX management should or would handle this crisis is as irelevent as the Cadet program itself. Unless the attrition of experienced pilots is addressed now, REX will probably not be around by the time the first of them (Cadets) graduate.
Thread Starter
Timber...
What makes you think that Heavilift would bother? 
Rex commenced trading on the ASX on 9 November 2005. However, unless Rex management take URGENT action and actually start to MANAGE the problem of aircrew 'attrition', then it's looking increasingly likely that REX will finish trading before the end of this year!
It [REX] will become another soft take-over target for Heavylift maybe???
Rex commenced trading on the ASX on 9 November 2005. However, unless Rex management take URGENT action and actually start to MANAGE the problem of aircrew 'attrition', then it's looking increasingly likely that REX will finish trading before the end of this year!
Spoke to a very senior REX Check and Trainer (20 years service) the other day. The Check and Training staff recently petitioned senior management for an increase in T&C's in an effort to stop the high level of attrition amongst their ranks. After much to-ing and fro-ing the company decided that it might be prepared to offer them 5% (before tax of course) "as recognition of their past service, and compensation for additional services they may be required to provide."
It's been some time since I've seen a man feel so betrayed and disgusted! The applications that he had on hold have now been activated, and according to him, the remaining Check and trainers are also now actively looking elsewhere.
Well done REX!
It's been some time since I've seen a man feel so betrayed and disgusted! The applications that he had on hold have now been activated, and according to him, the remaining Check and trainers are also now actively looking elsewhere.
Well done REX!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 10th May 2008 at 04:41.
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Don't bag the cadets, they not know what they do.
All large flag carriers have em. And here at home you have qantas and the old MBA cadet program. Ansett had em too. The problem we face is not that cadets can't fly or shouldn't fly. Look at the experience left in GA. I wish I was exposed to the starting opportunities of now when I was washing airplanes at high school, and flying an hour when I earned financially doing something else for about 10 hours of wages. I took ages to save up and I reckon I spent probably $20000 over my career on training to date, and I am at ATPL level. Not to mention the shonkey operators, love em or hate em, you learn what not to do. Sink or swim. You just learn to survive, in the airplane and financially. Todays pilot doesn't get that, charactor building. 
When an airline job was so far away, and you had to get that first job, mostly for free, in some sh#t hole, then you got onto a twin, still in some sh#t hole, then just maybe someone you know might recommend you to a small regional. Remember Oxley Airlines outa Port MacQuarie. Bless their hearts. Look what it is now.
Today, anyone gets a look in at terms and conditions, as crappy as they are post 89, that generations of pilots have battled for. We have ourselves to blame, partially, but the last government stitched up the pinacle of sh#tness with "You must sign this to be employed" AWA's with spineless unfairness tests.
Cadets, most of em, don't know that they are supporting the pay your way aviation career. They believe is a fast track to a good job and to avoid the harder GA work. Setting the standard for us who have earned the right over the years to enjoy the T's and C's of our forefathers. Its tough times for all operators with fuel prices, but they are creating their own problems with pilot shortages, and blaming everyone but them selves. T's and C's / T's and C's.
Having said that.
I trained cadets of the new age MBA scheme, and they do come out good pilots. Its like a blank canvas, and they are of a standard where should be a great training ground for better things. But short of getting banned from this forum in a business close to its owners heart, these days its just not necessary to do a self funded cadet program. Airlines short of employing expats, will take low to no timers. Making for most airlines, a single pilot environment whilst training, if things were to go wrong, in airplanes and check lists that require 2 pilots exist. Long days with trainees that a long time ago, would be there to assist the captain, nowadays are just a strain, until ready to fulfill their title, because its nearly an ab-initio environment because they don't have the experience to call upon. The day seems long rare where a trainee would come from a decent background of diversity, and humble beginnings, and offer the environment some experience. Experience comes not of doing the same thing, the same destination,with the same crew, same same same, for 10000 hours. It comes from life outside the box. When you fly a 182 in the bush, a baron into monsoonal community, a metro carrying maximum permitted defects on an RNAV approach to circle at minimas that you had to juggle payloads on 7 sectors with fuel stops, with one shot at a water meth take off, only to break down somewhere, and extend your duty through midnight with an exhausted FO. And heaven forbid getting laid off with wife and kids and mortgage's in toe. I can't imagine why pilots leave crap money when they can as they get experience and chase better paying jobs. Throw into that the price of living, petrol, and interest rates.
We can bitch all day, but the truth is that this "IS" the future, a plan for a long term future, and is no way a fix for the hear and now. For there will be no future for companies who don't invest in their own future, beyond us hear and now-ers. All we can hope for as divided pilots, married and stable or not, is that external elements force new pilots not to bother, and for the squeeze on the purse strings of the parked operators, outweighs the price of parking them by paying just a little more than the 3rd world mentality wages, vs the loss of static displays burning up ramp charges.
When an airline job was so far away, and you had to get that first job, mostly for free, in some sh#t hole, then you got onto a twin, still in some sh#t hole, then just maybe someone you know might recommend you to a small regional. Remember Oxley Airlines outa Port MacQuarie. Bless their hearts. Look what it is now.Today, anyone gets a look in at terms and conditions, as crappy as they are post 89, that generations of pilots have battled for. We have ourselves to blame, partially, but the last government stitched up the pinacle of sh#tness with "You must sign this to be employed" AWA's with spineless unfairness tests.
Cadets, most of em, don't know that they are supporting the pay your way aviation career. They believe is a fast track to a good job and to avoid the harder GA work. Setting the standard for us who have earned the right over the years to enjoy the T's and C's of our forefathers. Its tough times for all operators with fuel prices, but they are creating their own problems with pilot shortages, and blaming everyone but them selves. T's and C's / T's and C's.
Having said that.
I trained cadets of the new age MBA scheme, and they do come out good pilots. Its like a blank canvas, and they are of a standard where should be a great training ground for better things. But short of getting banned from this forum in a business close to its owners heart, these days its just not necessary to do a self funded cadet program. Airlines short of employing expats, will take low to no timers. Making for most airlines, a single pilot environment whilst training, if things were to go wrong, in airplanes and check lists that require 2 pilots exist. Long days with trainees that a long time ago, would be there to assist the captain, nowadays are just a strain, until ready to fulfill their title, because its nearly an ab-initio environment because they don't have the experience to call upon. The day seems long rare where a trainee would come from a decent background of diversity, and humble beginnings, and offer the environment some experience. Experience comes not of doing the same thing, the same destination,with the same crew, same same same, for 10000 hours. It comes from life outside the box. When you fly a 182 in the bush, a baron into monsoonal community, a metro carrying maximum permitted defects on an RNAV approach to circle at minimas that you had to juggle payloads on 7 sectors with fuel stops, with one shot at a water meth take off, only to break down somewhere, and extend your duty through midnight with an exhausted FO. And heaven forbid getting laid off with wife and kids and mortgage's in toe. I can't imagine why pilots leave crap money when they can as they get experience and chase better paying jobs. Throw into that the price of living, petrol, and interest rates.
We can bitch all day, but the truth is that this "IS" the future, a plan for a long term future, and is no way a fix for the hear and now. For there will be no future for companies who don't invest in their own future, beyond us hear and now-ers. All we can hope for as divided pilots, married and stable or not, is that external elements force new pilots not to bother, and for the squeeze on the purse strings of the parked operators, outweighs the price of parking them by paying just a little more than the 3rd world mentality wages, vs the loss of static displays burning up ramp charges.
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oh to see my work colleges slowly withering away.
Rex & all the others are like wilting flowers, their dieing 'cause the 'earth' they live in is now rotten with greed!
Can I offer an answer? No & neither can anyone else in here, but.....
Why do we fly? For one simple reason, WE LOVE IT! There wouldn't be another industry out there I reckon where they would put up with the anguish, the such low morale, the cost of just getting there & to have to then fight for every inch just to stay above the bread line, why do we do it? WE LOVE IT.
Love is the only thing that keeps this insane sprial dive world of ours we live in tollerable.
ALL the contributors here have one thing in common, their genuinely concerned what's going on around us, good or bad. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all simply down tools, take one step back & just say, enough is enough, as much as I love flying it's killing me (& my family) to see my fellow aviators tearing each others throats apart here.
Then again we are meant to be educated & smarter than the dumb animals that also walk the earth along side us, but are we?
Deep I know & somewhat off track I know but it hurts to see my colleges paying so much for something that feels so good to do, FLY
No need to tear this post apart, there's many others here in PPRUNE that contribute to that
CW
CW
Rex & all the others are like wilting flowers, their dieing 'cause the 'earth' they live in is now rotten with greed!
Can I offer an answer? No & neither can anyone else in here, but.....
Why do we fly? For one simple reason, WE LOVE IT! There wouldn't be another industry out there I reckon where they would put up with the anguish, the such low morale, the cost of just getting there & to have to then fight for every inch just to stay above the bread line, why do we do it? WE LOVE IT.
Love is the only thing that keeps this insane sprial dive world of ours we live in tollerable.
ALL the contributors here have one thing in common, their genuinely concerned what's going on around us, good or bad. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all simply down tools, take one step back & just say, enough is enough, as much as I love flying it's killing me (& my family) to see my fellow aviators tearing each others throats apart here.
Then again we are meant to be educated & smarter than the dumb animals that also walk the earth along side us, but are we?
Deep I know & somewhat off track I know but it hurts to see my colleges paying so much for something that feels so good to do, FLY
No need to tear this post apart, there's many others here in PPRUNE that contribute to that
CW
CW
Thread Starter
dash 27 says it all with:
Put another way..................companies who DON'T, WON'T, CAN'T, or REFUSE TO invest in their own future WILL NOT/CANNOT survive...................PERIOD!
Take note REX management.
there will be no future for companies who don't invest in their own future
Take note REX management.
I have said it before and I will say it again, there is no skills shortage in this country but the "short-sighted grab for cash mentality of the corporate elite".
Professor Roy Green, Macquarie Graduate School of Management(2007).
Professor Roy Green, Macquarie Graduate School of Management(2007).
That's approx $4Mil extra a year from that rise alone. As it was, the fuel surcharge virtually covered REX's total yearly fuel bill! Now they are in the dark territory of trying to maintain profits by whatever means possible, fair or foul. As REX's business shrinks (and remember the cheif of staff has publicly commented that this will be the action taken as opposed to retention), it will be much more difficult to hide behind such immoral behaviour. Also something they hadn't reckoned on was the "purchase" of the Cadet program. No longer in the hands of the lowest bidders, the sales pitch given to the board must now be looking a little thin.
As I've said in a previous post, It'll be interesting to see what creative scenerios the management (and I use that term loosely) of REX come up with, as the business, and services grow smaller as the year wears on?
As I've said in a previous post, It'll be interesting to see what creative scenerios the management (and I use that term loosely) of REX come up with, as the business, and services grow smaller as the year wears on?
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 11th May 2008 at 02:09.
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REX raises the fuel levy yet again!
From page 29 of the Saturday May 10 edition of the Border Mail:
REX RAISES FUEL LEVY $3
RECORD high oil prices have forced regional airline Regional Express Holdings to lift its fuel surcharge by $3 a sector.
Rex’s fuel surcharge will rise from $33 to $36 a sector from Tuesday.
“Oil prices have risen by another ten percent since the last time we raised the fuel levy and are now at historic highs above $US120 a barrel,” Rex general manager, network strategy and sales, Warrick Lodge said.
“In addition, the refining margins have also increased, presenting a double blow for airline fuel.”
Rex said it understood the impact on regional Australia, but that the average ticket price was still lower than it was five years ago.
Rex shares closed 0.5c lower at $1.045.
RECORD high oil prices have forced regional airline Regional Express Holdings to lift its fuel surcharge by $3 a sector.
Rex’s fuel surcharge will rise from $33 to $36 a sector from Tuesday.
“Oil prices have risen by another ten percent since the last time we raised the fuel levy and are now at historic highs above $US120 a barrel,” Rex general manager, network strategy and sales, Warrick Lodge said.
“In addition, the refining margins have also increased, presenting a double blow for airline fuel.”
Rex said it understood the impact on regional Australia, but that the average ticket price was still lower than it was five years ago.
Rex shares closed 0.5c lower at $1.045.
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lift its fuel surcharge by $3 a sector.
No sign of the "Pay pilots properly" surcharge being imposed as yet.
tenfouroldmate,
To the average punter $3 really is neither here nor there. To REX it equals approx $4million per annum! $10 per punter is also niether here nor there these days, but if correctly applied it would spell the difference between a viable long term air service largely free from crewing issues and disruptions, to most probably no service at all!
So, your point is well made my friend.
To the average punter $3 really is neither here nor there. To REX it equals approx $4million per annum! $10 per punter is also niether here nor there these days, but if correctly applied it would spell the difference between a viable long term air service largely free from crewing issues and disruptions, to most probably no service at all!
So, your point is well made my friend.
Thread Starter
KRUSTY34
True, K34, but to try to put that in place now would be an admission by REX management that they've screwed-up very badly indeed with the way they seem to have totally mismanaged their HR strategies to date to ensure flight crew retention. 
$10 per punter is also niether here nor there these days, but if correctly applied it would spell the difference between a viable long term air service largely free from crewing issues and disruptions, to most probably no service at all!
Last edited by SIUYA; 12th May 2008 at 01:26. Reason: Typo!
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I suspect it’s more along the lines of “who blinks first”. In an ingrained culture of cost cutting amongst a crowd of cost cutters, the person who first makes the suggestion that pilots be paid more will be shown the door. To surmise they (the managers) know they have done something wrong is giving them way too much credit. They know they are doing everything right. Many pilots have tried to explain the situation. It doesn’t work. Likewise, to suggest the managers don’t know what is going on is naive. To argue otherwise is the equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall.
The best action to take for the Rex pilots with experience is to move on. When the managers see the house of cards falling down around them, maybe things will change…but, don’t bank on it. Get out and don’t look back.
The best action to take for the Rex pilots with experience is to move on. When the managers see the house of cards falling down around them, maybe things will change…but, don’t bank on it. Get out and don’t look back.
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Is this the answer?
I think I've realised from a previous post that the reason this situation exists is because "we love flying".
In that case, why don't we train for and aquire careers in another professions (IT, Financial, Law etc,) then we can afford to operate and fly our own aircraft, fly whenever we want, be home for holidays etc, earn a decent crust, decent standard of life and enjoy respect and value for your work?
This way you satisfy your love of flying and REX and Q are completely removed from the equation!!!..
(yes I know.... .... but it might actually be the way it's headed.)
In that case, why don't we train for and aquire careers in another professions (IT, Financial, Law etc,) then we can afford to operate and fly our own aircraft, fly whenever we want, be home for holidays etc, earn a decent crust, decent standard of life and enjoy respect and value for your work?
This way you satisfy your love of flying and REX and Q are completely removed from the equation!!!..
(yes I know....
.... but it might actually be the way it's headed.)
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My wife was in the cabin of an aircraft taxiing out of Sydney the other day and looked out the window to see the 3 crew of a Saab RUNNING across the apron in the pouring rain.
They were running from the crew room to the 90 bays, a not-so-short walk. The crew and their overnight bags were saturated. Probably on a min rest overnight with no crew meals.
Its reasons like this that I left. Not treated like a professional.
They were running from the crew room to the 90 bays, a not-so-short walk. The crew and their overnight bags were saturated. Probably on a min rest overnight with no crew meals.
Its reasons like this that I left. Not treated like a professional.