Merged: Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans- Again
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Hyundai of the skies
J
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I was aware of your reference. Depends on your overall view of the term "durability" I guess. Anyhow, as you no doubt know, the LGW 20k 700 wins the Hyundai award hands down......
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Boeing Has Another Full Week Of 787 Tests
Friday, June 19, 2009
AviationWeek.com
Boeing is planning another week of 787 tests as ZA001 counts down to first flight, expected June 28.
Counting down Boeing’s long task lists leads to June 28 being a likely target for the first flight of ZA001, the first flight test article in the 787 program.
Boeing will run through a series of six major ground tests from Friday through Sunday, June 21. They are broken into blocks of three. The first covers cover primary flight control system “axis” testing, which is to finish Saturday. The other focuses on functionality check out tests of the flight control management system and should wrap up by Sunday afternoon.
The six tests were originally set to be completed by Saturday evening, a clear indication of how volatile the schedule is as Boeing pushes to get ZA001 into the air by the end of June.
VP Pat Shanahan, the general manager of Boeing’s commercial airplane programs, is set to hold a flight readiness review in Everett, Wash., on Saturday.
With that review done and the last of the ground test blocks completed, the airplane will enter the last major phase of its testing — final gauntlet.
That 48-hour procedure will push ZA001 through a continuous series of final system checkouts using a software load developed to address minor issues that arose during the first two test phases — factory and intermediate gauntlet.
It is expected to get under way June 22 and most likely will be followed by a two-day analysis session.
When flight managers are satisfied with that analysis, ZA001 will be ready to roll under the power of its Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time. It does so in low- and high-speed taxi tests. The first are cautious approaches to the fact that the nearly 400,000 lb. aircraft is moving under its own power.
The second will bring it to Vr — rotation speed — in which the nose wheel lifts off the runway slightly but the main landing gears stay put. Those tests, all conducted at Paine Field near the Everett factory, should only take one day.
Most likely Boeing will then take a full day for final preparation work before proceeding to the first flight. Following this tentative schedule, that will put first flight on Sunday, June 28. But, as with so much in the program, the schedule could slip.
The first flight is slated for 5.5 hours, but indications are it could go longer. The airplane will land at Boeing Field in Seattle, from which the full flight test program will be conducted.
Friday, June 19, 2009
AviationWeek.com
Boeing is planning another week of 787 tests as ZA001 counts down to first flight, expected June 28.
Counting down Boeing’s long task lists leads to June 28 being a likely target for the first flight of ZA001, the first flight test article in the 787 program.
Boeing will run through a series of six major ground tests from Friday through Sunday, June 21. They are broken into blocks of three. The first covers cover primary flight control system “axis” testing, which is to finish Saturday. The other focuses on functionality check out tests of the flight control management system and should wrap up by Sunday afternoon.
The six tests were originally set to be completed by Saturday evening, a clear indication of how volatile the schedule is as Boeing pushes to get ZA001 into the air by the end of June.
VP Pat Shanahan, the general manager of Boeing’s commercial airplane programs, is set to hold a flight readiness review in Everett, Wash., on Saturday.
With that review done and the last of the ground test blocks completed, the airplane will enter the last major phase of its testing — final gauntlet.
That 48-hour procedure will push ZA001 through a continuous series of final system checkouts using a software load developed to address minor issues that arose during the first two test phases — factory and intermediate gauntlet.
It is expected to get under way June 22 and most likely will be followed by a two-day analysis session.
When flight managers are satisfied with that analysis, ZA001 will be ready to roll under the power of its Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time. It does so in low- and high-speed taxi tests. The first are cautious approaches to the fact that the nearly 400,000 lb. aircraft is moving under its own power.
The second will bring it to Vr — rotation speed — in which the nose wheel lifts off the runway slightly but the main landing gears stay put. Those tests, all conducted at Paine Field near the Everett factory, should only take one day.
Most likely Boeing will then take a full day for final preparation work before proceeding to the first flight. Following this tentative schedule, that will put first flight on Sunday, June 28. But, as with so much in the program, the schedule could slip.
The first flight is slated for 5.5 hours, but indications are it could go longer. The airplane will land at Boeing Field in Seattle, from which the full flight test program will be conducted.
In light of the overnight announcment of yet another delay in its test flight where is this going to end up and what will Qantas do? Any thoughts please.
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I would suggest that Boeing themselves would not be able to say with any accuracy when ZA001 will be ready. It depends on just how deep and comprehensive the correction to the wing box region will need to be to satisfy the FAA .
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Story that I was given this morning was after a crew meeting which announced tickets for USD$10 to watch the first flight...............they then announced the delay.
Some were saying it may even be related to the repairs after the hydraulic failure that have been the cause for concern. which would not be a good thing to blab in the media. So whether its a genuine structural modification or a repair procedure gone wrong, its not good for the image of the 787. And there are still lots of very tight lips on the factory floor
But all things in perspective, the A380 had some pretty good and some spectacular cockups delaying its launch and delivery.
Some were saying it may even be related to the repairs after the hydraulic failure that have been the cause for concern. which would not be a good thing to blab in the media. So whether its a genuine structural modification or a repair procedure gone wrong, its not good for the image of the 787. And there are still lots of very tight lips on the factory floor
But all things in perspective, the A380 had some pretty good and some spectacular cockups delaying its launch and delivery.
From the Boeing Media Room
Boeing Postpones 787 First Flight
EVERETT, Wash., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced that first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will be postponed due to a need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the aircraft.
The need was identified during the recent regularly scheduled tests on the full-scale static test airplane. Preliminary analysis indicated that flight test could proceed this month as planned. However, after further testing and consideration of possible modified flight test plans, the decision was made late last week that first flight should instead be postponed until productive flight testing could occur.
First flight and first delivery will be rescheduled following the final determination of the required modification and testing plan. It will be several weeks before the new schedule is available. The 787 team will continue with other aspects of testing on Airplane #1, including final gauntlet testing and low-speed taxiing. Work will also continue on the other five flight test aircraft and the subsequent aircraft in the production system.
Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes said a team of experts has already identified several potential solutions.
"Consideration was given to a temporary solution that would allow us to fly as scheduled, but we ultimately concluded that the right thing was to develop, design, test and incorporate a permanent modification to the localized area requiring reinforcement. Structural modifications like these are not uncommon in the development of new airplanes, and this is not an issue related to our choice of materials or the assembly and installation work of our team," Carson said.
Boeing's financial guidance will be updated to reflect any impact of these changes when the company issues its second quarter 2009 earnings report in July.
EVERETT, Wash., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) today announced that first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will be postponed due to a need to reinforce an area within the side-of-body section of the aircraft.
The need was identified during the recent regularly scheduled tests on the full-scale static test airplane. Preliminary analysis indicated that flight test could proceed this month as planned. However, after further testing and consideration of possible modified flight test plans, the decision was made late last week that first flight should instead be postponed until productive flight testing could occur.
First flight and first delivery will be rescheduled following the final determination of the required modification and testing plan. It will be several weeks before the new schedule is available. The 787 team will continue with other aspects of testing on Airplane #1, including final gauntlet testing and low-speed taxiing. Work will also continue on the other five flight test aircraft and the subsequent aircraft in the production system.
Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes said a team of experts has already identified several potential solutions.
"Consideration was given to a temporary solution that would allow us to fly as scheduled, but we ultimately concluded that the right thing was to develop, design, test and incorporate a permanent modification to the localized area requiring reinforcement. Structural modifications like these are not uncommon in the development of new airplanes, and this is not an issue related to our choice of materials or the assembly and installation work of our team," Carson said.
Boeing's financial guidance will be updated to reflect any impact of these changes when the company issues its second quarter 2009 earnings report in July.
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More info....
Boeing delays 787 first flight again, cites excessive stress in 'upper wing join area'
Wednesday June 24, 2009
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Boeing delayed 787 first flight, expected to take place this week, again yesterday, citing "a series of relatively small areas" on both sides of the aircraft's body in the "upper wing join area" that registered stress levels during static testing that "exceeded expectations."
Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson said the manufacturer determined Friday that without reinforcing the areas, the 787 would have to be operated in "such a small envelope" that it "wouldn't be worth it" to start a flight test program that would "not [be] particularly useful to prepare the aircraft for certification." The company did not set a new target date for first flight, saying only that it will announce a new schedule in "several weeks." It did not say whether or how long first delivery to ANA, slated for the 2010 first quarter, would be delayed.
The latest postponement marks the sixth time Boeing has delayed the Dreamliner program and comes after several months in which top executives repeatedly insisted that first flight would take place by the end of the second quarter (ATWOnline, May 6). At last week's Paris Air Show, Carson reiterated that the company was "absolutely committed" to first flight by the end of this month and VP and GM-Airplane Programs Pat Shanahan told reporters that first flight was "imminent" (ATWOnline, June 17)
"When we were at Paris last week. . .we were of a mind that the aircraft could enter the flight test program," Carson told analysts and reporters yesterday. He revealed that the "anomaly" in question first was discovered "several weeks ago," but until Friday "we thought we had a solution that would allow us to move to the flight test program."
VP and GM-787 Program Scott Fancher said there are 18 1-2-sq.-in. areas on each side of the aircraft that need reinforcement to reduce stress levels. Boeing is working with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which manufactures the 787's wings, and Fuji Heavy Industries, which handles the detailed design and assembly of the center wing box and its integration, to determine a fix. "We're talking about a relatively small number of parts and a relatively simple modification," Fancher said, adding that the solution will likely be "a handful of parts that you can literally hold in your hand that can be added to the structure to provide stress reinforcement." He noted that "several solutions" are being considered.
Once developed, the new parts first will have to be put on the static test aircraft and then on the flight test aircraft. Boeing will need to "proceed with additional [ground] testing" with the new parts before first flight, Shanahan said. Fancher noted that the modifications can be done on the initial flight test aircraft "out in the field" and will be done on all 787s in assembly wherever the aircraft is in the production process.
The fix will be designed to "be retrofitted into the aircraft," Carson explained. He added that while the problem is a "disappointment," it is "quite manageable," and Shanahan emphasized that "this is a structural reinforcement issue, not an issue with materials or workmanship."
by Aaron Karp
Wednesday June 24, 2009
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Boeing delayed 787 first flight, expected to take place this week, again yesterday, citing "a series of relatively small areas" on both sides of the aircraft's body in the "upper wing join area" that registered stress levels during static testing that "exceeded expectations."
Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson said the manufacturer determined Friday that without reinforcing the areas, the 787 would have to be operated in "such a small envelope" that it "wouldn't be worth it" to start a flight test program that would "not [be] particularly useful to prepare the aircraft for certification." The company did not set a new target date for first flight, saying only that it will announce a new schedule in "several weeks." It did not say whether or how long first delivery to ANA, slated for the 2010 first quarter, would be delayed.
The latest postponement marks the sixth time Boeing has delayed the Dreamliner program and comes after several months in which top executives repeatedly insisted that first flight would take place by the end of the second quarter (ATWOnline, May 6). At last week's Paris Air Show, Carson reiterated that the company was "absolutely committed" to first flight by the end of this month and VP and GM-Airplane Programs Pat Shanahan told reporters that first flight was "imminent" (ATWOnline, June 17)
"When we were at Paris last week. . .we were of a mind that the aircraft could enter the flight test program," Carson told analysts and reporters yesterday. He revealed that the "anomaly" in question first was discovered "several weeks ago," but until Friday "we thought we had a solution that would allow us to move to the flight test program."
VP and GM-787 Program Scott Fancher said there are 18 1-2-sq.-in. areas on each side of the aircraft that need reinforcement to reduce stress levels. Boeing is working with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, which manufactures the 787's wings, and Fuji Heavy Industries, which handles the detailed design and assembly of the center wing box and its integration, to determine a fix. "We're talking about a relatively small number of parts and a relatively simple modification," Fancher said, adding that the solution will likely be "a handful of parts that you can literally hold in your hand that can be added to the structure to provide stress reinforcement." He noted that "several solutions" are being considered.
Once developed, the new parts first will have to be put on the static test aircraft and then on the flight test aircraft. Boeing will need to "proceed with additional [ground] testing" with the new parts before first flight, Shanahan said. Fancher noted that the modifications can be done on the initial flight test aircraft "out in the field" and will be done on all 787s in assembly wherever the aircraft is in the production process.
The fix will be designed to "be retrofitted into the aircraft," Carson explained. He added that while the problem is a "disappointment," it is "quite manageable," and Shanahan emphasized that "this is a structural reinforcement issue, not an issue with materials or workmanship."
by Aaron Karp
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I still think the 787 has the potential to bring Boeing down.
The management of the whole program need a good reaming. If Joe
Average on the shop floor made a similar mistake he would be out the
door in no time. The halfwits running boeing should all be sacked.
One week before the first flight and the are lying to the world knowing
full well it wasn't going to happen.
Truly Boeing have had there day
The management of the whole program need a good reaming. If Joe
Average on the shop floor made a similar mistake he would be out the
door in no time. The halfwits running boeing should all be sacked.
One week before the first flight and the are lying to the world knowing
full well it wasn't going to happen.
Truly Boeing have had there day
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agree.
The average punter is fairly aviation savvy these days. Pick up any paper and you see in in their -delay -delay then the reasons-stress, not ready blah blah.
I'm no shrink but all of this will sit on the subconscious of pax for a long time.
This has /will be a PR disaster for Boeing.
Even Obama would struggle putting a "spin" on this program.
The public have already lost confidence in the "plastic fantastic"-WET DREAM LINER.
If Airbus have learnt anything from this and the inexcusable delays on the a-380 they will launch the A-350-ON TIME. Watch the orders roll in.
I don't want to go back to the past but -Dixon, Jackson and Gregg should be castigated for not signing up to the 777-ER when they had their chance in 2003 when it did the promo trip round Oz. . It was/is the right aircraft for QF.
The average punter is fairly aviation savvy these days. Pick up any paper and you see in in their -delay -delay then the reasons-stress, not ready blah blah.
I'm no shrink but all of this will sit on the subconscious of pax for a long time.
This has /will be a PR disaster for Boeing.
Even Obama would struggle putting a "spin" on this program.
The public have already lost confidence in the "plastic fantastic"-WET DREAM LINER.
If Airbus have learnt anything from this and the inexcusable delays on the a-380 they will launch the A-350-ON TIME. Watch the orders roll in.
I don't want to go back to the past but -Dixon, Jackson and Gregg should be castigated for not signing up to the 777-ER when they had their chance in 2003 when it did the promo trip round Oz. . It was/is the right aircraft for QF.
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If Joe Average on the shop floor made a similar mistake he would be out the door in no time. The halfwits running boeing should all be sacked.
Really, listen to yourselves! You sound like a bunch of ...Airbus haters!
The 787 is not only a big change for Boeing in terms of structural composition, but also project management. In the same way as the A380 was a radical change for Airbus, Boeing have contracted much of the detail design/manufacture outside of Seattle. And it's not a bad move.
I can't think of any aircraft projects this size that aren't without their teething problems. Boeing have to choose their words carefully as a lot of eyes are watching them at this crucial stage, so they're hardly going to speak their mind about this.
Makes me think, if the structural design problem was with one of the Wing control surfaces (locally design & manufactured), I'd say we would get some very different responses on this forum.
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The 787 is not only a big change for Boeing in terms of structural composition, but also project management.
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Originally Posted by stubby jumbo
I don't want to go back to the past but -Dixon, Jackson and Gregg should be castigated for not signing up to the 777-ER when they had their chance in 2003 when it did the promo trip round Oz. . It was/is the right aircraft for QF.
But these things are not decided on promo trips. The rumour mill always tilts to the latest set of promoters in town, but in the airline/manufacturer world presentations and analysis are ongoing.
And hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Time was, QF had Concorde options.
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Well the story is not good as far as I can tell. My source had a few beers with oune of the engineering team, and its a structural problem with a section of the wing box area that is part of the new wing desgn that allows all the flex in the new wing.
Whatever the rework is..... sounds huge to me!
So as somone else posted above..... the butt covering and "fibbing" about the delays sort of says it all really.
Things are very tight lipped in Everett!
Whatever the rework is..... sounds huge to me!
So as somone else posted above..... the butt covering and "fibbing" about the delays sort of says it all really.
Things are very tight lipped in Everett!
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And now Boeing buys out the stake in the 787 held by Vought.