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Merged: Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans- Again

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Merged: Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans- Again

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Old 10th Apr 2008, 02:52
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J* was NEVER a launch customer for the 787
Whoops, typo from me
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 05:21
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A little more info from the venerable Ben Sandilands at crikey.com.au

Boeing Dreamliner hype still just a pipe dream

Ben Sandilands writes:

If you believed any of the hype about the Boeing Dreamliners of which up to 115 have been ordered or optioned by Qantas and Jetstar, you’ve been had. There will be no non-stop Dreamliners from Melbourne or Sydney to London for at least 10 years if ever. And there certainly won’t be the 15 early model Jetstar Dreamliners in service by next December as promised last October.
Worse still , if you are in the tourism industry and looking forward to the "game changing" innovations that this jet was hyped as bringing to allow non-stop routes from America and Asia into alternative gateways like Cairns, the Alice, Adelaide, the Gold Coast, Newcastle or Canberra, you too have been had.
Boeing this morning somewhat grudgingly admitted to yet another delay to the program, deferring the first flight that was supposed to have been no later than 30 September last year to no later than 31 December this year. The first jet that was rolled out on 7 July last year was then pulled apart for a rebuilding job that is still incomplete. There is no clarity as yet as to when Qantas will get any 787s nor any believable guarantees that a new delivery schedule will be met. Maybe late in 2010. Perhaps really in 2011. The most important version ordered by Qantas, the stretched 787-9 suitable for non-stop US flights from Queensland, is pushed back until "early" 2012, while the Japan special, the shorter range 787-3 ordered in large numbers by All Nippon and Japan Airlines, has been deferred indefinitely.
For Boeing to meet it latest promises it has to have an eight month flight certification program starting no later than year’s end. This is a tall order for a jet claimed to revolutionise aviation by being made out of plastic composites, with sections baked in a giant oven and glued and stapled together in as little as three days in final assembly.
The hype about the 787 is coming unstuck. No-one doubts the genius of the design, but doubts about the capacity of management to run the program, which sources major components from Japan, Italy and France as well as the US are becoming more vocal.
Among the problems so far is substandard work by contractors, a central wing box that had to be redesigned because it was bending too much, an incorrectly designed landing gear door, and what are most recently claimed to be issues with its electrical generators. Qantas needs the 787 to be on time to replace its aging Cityflyer 767s as a matter of some priority. These delays mean more pressure on its maintenance arrangements, whether at home or in Asia, to keep these jets safe and reliable for what looks like two or more years longer than Qantas ever anticipated.
With rumblings from Qantas in February about possible recourse to liquidated damages, which means cash, for any future 787 delays, it seems that Dreamliners will be delivering money to the airline well before they carry any passengers.
And if hints from various sources come true, it is money that Qantas may spend on another big order for Airbuses in the near future.
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 05:33
  #23 (permalink)  

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Press release from Boeing:

Boeing Revises 787 First Flight and Delivery Plans

Adds Schedule Margin to Reduce Risk of Further Delays First flight moved into fourth-quarter 2008

deliveries to begin third-quarter 2009

Production plan now targets approximately 25 787 deliveries in 2009

Company expresses confidence in plans; will work closely with customers to minimize disruption

No change to 2008 earnings guidance; strong 2009 EPS growth still expected

EVERETT, Wash., April 09, 2008 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced a revised plan for first flight and initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner that includes additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the program.

While significant progress has been made assembling Airplane #1, first flight is being rescheduled due to slower than expected completion of work that traveled from supplier facilities into Boeing's final assembly line, unanticipated rework, and the addition of margin into the testing schedule. The new delivery schedule is based on a more conservative production plan developed with the 787 partner team. That schedule now targets approximately 25 deliveries in 2009.

First flight of the all-new airplane will move into the fourth quarter of this year rather than the end of the second quarter, and first delivery is now planned for the third quarter of 2009 instead of first quarter.

Company officials expressed confidence in the new plan and the steps being taken to accelerate program performance.

"Over the past few months, we have taken strong actions to confront and overcome start-up issues on the program, and we have made solid progress," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson. "Nevertheless, the traveled work situation and some unanticipated rework have prevented us from hitting the milestones we laid out in January. Our revised schedule is built upon an achievable, high-confidence plan for getting us to our power-on and first-flight milestones. Also, while the fundamental technologies and design of the 787 remain sound, we have inserted some additional schedule margin for dealing with other issues we may uncover in testing prior to first flight and in the flight test program."

The company said in January it would be conducting a comprehensive assessment of its supply chain and production system capabilities to determine the details of the 787's flight test program and initial delivery profile. As a result of that assessment, the first-year delivery plan announced today will be followed by a more gradual ramp up to full-rate production than previously planned.

"We deeply regret the disruption and disappointment these changes will cause for our customers, and we will work closely with each of them to minimize the impact," said Carson. "We have taken significant action to improve supply chain and production system performance, such as our investment in Global Aeronautica, but based on our assessment, the prudent course is to proceed with a more gradual ramp up to full-rate production."

Pat Shanahan, 787 vice president and program manager, echoed Carson's comments about the progress being made in 787 factories.

"The work that remains to be done on Airplane #1 is well defined, and we can see our way to -- and have confidence in -- the new milestones we have set for it," said Shanahan. "We have addressed the major challenges that slowed our progress while trying to complete the primary structure -- the parts shortages, engineering changes, and manufacturing changes -- and we are well into the systems installation that is the precursor to putting power on the airplane for the first time. We have also worked closely with our partners to achieve higher levels of completion of their parts of subsequent airplanes, and we will continue to drive improvements in the supply chain and production system performance," he said.

For tracking program progress, Shanahan outlined a series of milestones that will occur before June 30: 787 static and fatigue structural test airplanes will move to their testing locations; Airplanes #3 and #4 will enter final assembly; hardware airworthiness qualifications will be complete; and power on will be achieved.

Shanahan also said the program has changed the timing of the introduction of two 787 derivatives. The 787-9, a larger variant of the airplane, will be the first derivative of the baseline 787 with delivery planned for early 2012. The 787-3, a shorter-range model previously slated to deliver in 2010, will now become the second derivative of the airplane family.

While research and development costs will likely increase as a result of the 787 schedule change, Boeing expects no change to 2008 earnings guidance. The company continues to expect strong earnings per share growth in 2009 and will provide complete 2009 financial guidance when it holds its first-quarter 2008 earnings conference call later this month. The outlook for the company's defense business and in-production commercial airplane programs remains strong.

Boeing will hold a conference call with Scott Carson and Pat Shanahan to discuss the 787 program today at 11:00 a.m. EDT, 8:00 a.m., PDT.
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 07:10
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captaintunedog777,

Care to elaborate? My post was simply a comment about the way QF management is neglecting the ageing QF mainline fleet at the expense of
Jetstar.

Don't know how that relates to my "handling of the big jets" - better get back to handling yours buddy.
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 20:23
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Hey SS!
Hows longhaul treating you??

So what do you think this will do to air NZs employment over the next 2 years?
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 23:40
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Gday Horserun. Longhaul is really good.

I cant see this announcement changing the recruitment plans over the next few years. The 787-9 introduction is planned as a 1-for-1 replacement of the older fleets- 767/747. So at no time is there going to be any real increase in total fleet numbers or an increase in crew levels.

Im a bit out of the loop at the moment but have heard that there is quite a few guys on yes letters waiting for starts. It sounds like they have been told to expect a bit of a wait- Late this year/early next sort of thing. I wouldnt worry what is said though, crewing requirements seem to change at short notice. You just need to look at last year, AirNZ wasnt planning on employing again till 2009/10? and they ran about 6 or 7 interviews.
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 12:26
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J* an all Airbus fleet and QF an all Boeing fleet. Well spotted! It makes real sense with the CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days and much less for 320 to 330 and 330 to 380 ............

And all you chaps who want to get into J* I am sure they will run out of post 89 Blueshirted mates soon ..........
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 02:26
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What happens when the new CEO comes along, one who is not enamoured with someone elses WorkChoices bastard love child????
Let us see what happens when the JetStar business model is well and truely stress tested by an economic down turn then we'll see if this new age airline business model is truely the way of the future or just another short term business plan devised by executives to allow themselves to get rich from.
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Old 14th Apr 2008, 01:40
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Exclamation

It makes real sense with the CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days....
I always find statements like this as not reflecting the entirety of the story. If I were to be blunt I'd call it Airbus 'spin' as I know they're the ones that bang on about the short CCQ. As an example, does that 13 days include line flying? I wouldn't think so as this would be eight days on it's own. Five days for the type technical course and sims?

In addition, the term '13 working days' as utilised on the Airbus website is also a tad misleading. Six sectors plus a two sector check is about the QF norm for any conversion no matter what the previous experience is. On line operations for the A380 that will be a London return and then a LAX return. An eight to ten day trip followed by a four-six day trip. So the 13 working days is more likely to be closer to three plus weeks. Follow that by another 3-4 weeks for the sectors and the CCQ program is likely to be at least six weeks.

QGFT shows it as nine weeks during the introduction phase of the aeroplane for A330-A380. That said, they are all doing the 'long' technical type course. It will be interesting to see what the actual CCQ program looks like once the aircraft is 'mature'.
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Old 24th Jun 2008, 10:26
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Thumbs up Boeing Achieves 787 Power On

(Everett, Wash., June 20, 2008) -- The Boeing Company [NYSE:BA] has completed the Power On sequence for the first 787 Dreamliner, marking the completion of the next major milestone on the path to first flight later this year.

Power On is a complex series of tasks and tests that bring electrical power onto the airplane and begin to exercise the use of the electrical systems. The 787 is a more-electric airplane with the pneumatic, or bleed air, system being totally replaced by electronics.

"The team has made great progress in bringing the bold innovation of the 787 to reality," said Pat Shanahan, vice president and general manager of the 787 program. "There is plenty of work to be done between now and first flight, but with every step forward we grow more and more confident."

The Power On sequence began in early June with a series of pretest continuity checks to verify that the wiring installed in the airplane had been connected properly. Upon completion of those checks, the Boeing team plugged in an external power cart and slowly began to bring full power into each segment of the system, beginning with the flight deck displays. From that point forward, the pilot's controls were used to direct the addition of new systems to the power grid.

At each step of the testing, power is allowed to flow into one additional area and gauges are used to verify that the right level of electrical power reached the intended area. "We are very methodical in ensuring the integrity of the airplane's systems," said Shanahan. "In completing the Power On sequence, we have verified both that the electrical power distribution system is installed as designed and that it functions as intended."

Source : Boeing

787 Dreamliner Fatigue Airframe Departs Factory

(Everett, Wash., June 20, 2008) -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] yesterday moved the 787 Dreamliner designated for fatigue testing from the final assembly factory in Everett, Wash., to another production bay at the facility, where assembly work will continue. The move paves the way for the second flight-test airplane to advance to the next position in the production line today. The first Dreamliner remains in the nose-to-door position and the third flight-test airplane is in the first position. It will remain there until the fourth flight-test airplane is ready for assembly to begin later this month.

Source : Boeing
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Old 24th Jun 2008, 13:47
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CCQ A320 to A380 only 13 days and much less for 320 to 330 and 330 to 380

"Tell him he's dreamin'"


[IMG]p-userpic.livejournal.com/37236261/1232513[/IMG]
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 16:48
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Retrospective reflection

First post so be polite please.
I was one of thousands involved in design of B747, working at Seattle from 1966 to 1969. Delays like those happening on 787 would have bankrupt the Company. We used sliderules and early computers but kept to schedule; did the job in half the time taken for 787. We were called the Everett Incredibles and our motto was "Quality is King but the schedule is God".
Don't put money on latest schedule until Boeing has done the ultimate load tests - composite materials remain unpredictable
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 22:34
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I was one of thousands involved in design of B747, working at Seattle from 1966 to 1969
Really?
I'd very much like to shake your hand if ever we meet.
I've got about 5,000 hours in 747's and it's by far the best aeroplane I've ever flown.
I've read the Joe Sutter book a couple of times and really appreciate the effort you guys put into making it so good.
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Old 28th Jun 2008, 01:24
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Caution: Thread Drift

18...Have a read of 'Widebody' by Clive Irving - if you haven't already.
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Old 5th Jul 2008, 06:26
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Boeing 787 Dreamliner Structure Test a Success

(Rome, July 2, 2008) -- Alenia Aeronautica, a Finmeccanica company, successfully completed destructive testing on the horizontal stabilizer of the Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner. The test took place at Alenia's Pomigliano plant in Naples with Boeing engineers and representatives of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in attendance. The stabilizer is made at the Alenia Aeronautica plant at Foggia in Italy's Puglia region.

Previous physical testing had shown that the horizontal stabilizer meets its certification requirement to withstand 150 percent of the maximum aerodynamic load it ever could encounter in flight. Once Alenia engineers proved that, they then tested the horizontal stabilizer to see just much load the horizontal stabilizer could withstand before failure. In that test, the structure did not break until well in excess of the required 150 percent of limit load. The destructive test was the culmination of seven months of testing conducted by Alenia and Boeing.

"This is quite an achievement," said Nazario Cauceglia, Alenia Aeronautica's chief technical officer. "The test validates the innovative multispar design concept and consolidates the spirit of cooperation established between Alenia and Boeing engineers on this difficult task, and on the entire 787 program."

"Successful completion of the 787 horizontal stabilizer failure test marks the culmination of an innovative design and development activity," said Randy Harley, vice president and general manager, 787 Engineering and Technology. "Working together, the 787 team has once again confirmed the power of an integrated partnership."

Previous tests at Pomigliano gauged the structure's capability to withstand various extremes in aerodynamic pressures, such as upward and downward deflection and extreme asymmetric loads.

With static testing complete, Alenia now will proceed to fatigue testing. Alenia engineers at Pomigliano will subject a complete horizontal stabilizer to repeated flexing, meant to demonstrate the stabilizer's ability to carry repeated operational load cycles representative of its design life. To obtain certification the tail will be tested to at least three times its design life. The testing program is slated to conclude with Boeing conducting a bird strike test at its facilities in the U.S.

Source : Boeing
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Old 5th Jul 2008, 10:40
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787 Stab Test

That's great news, a bit late though me thinks !

The 787 rollout from the hangar last year was a big stunt !

The damn thing was supposed to be flying by now, but is in testing.

Look forward to when the dream becomes reality !
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Old 2nd Feb 2009, 23:50
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Production Resumes on Boeing 787 Dreamliners


(Everett, Wash., January 30, 2009) -- Production of Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliners resumed yesterday with the join of the fifth airplane designated for flight test.

This airplane, designated ZA005, is the first to be powered with General Electric GEnx engines. The major assemblies were loaded in final body join over the past several days. The fuselage and wing joins occur simultaneously.

"This airplane signifies our return to a steady production rhythm," said Jack Jones, vice president of 787 Final Assembly and Change Incorporation.

"Sections are arriving in Everett at the completion levels committed by our partners and close to what is expected for mature production," Jones said. "The substantial progress made by our partners streamlines the assembly process, which is essential as we ramp up production."

Five of the six airplanes designated for flight test are now in varying stages of production. Power was restored earlier this week to the first flight-test airplane, ZA001, and production testing has resumed as the airplane prepares for first flight in the second quarter. Rolls-Royce engines are hung on ZA002, in the fourth and final production position in the factory. The third and fourth flight-test airplanes, ZA003 and ZA004, are in the third and second production positions, respectively.

Fastener rework is done on ZA001, nearly complete on ZA002 and progressing well on the third and fourth airplanes, Jones said. "We have applied the resources necessary to complete all the outstanding work on these airplanes and keep the production line moving forward."

Assemblies for the final flight-test airplane, ZA006, are in production at partner sites worldwide. In all, assemblies for 30 Dreamliners are in production at this time.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 895 airplanes from 58 airlines.

Source : Boeing
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:47
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Final Boeing 787 Dreamliner for Flight Test Enters Final Assembly



(Everett, Wash., March 19, 2009) -- The sixth and final Boeing [NYSE: BA] 787 Dreamliner designated for flight test is now undergoing final assembly in Everett, Wash. The airplane, designated ZA006, will be powered with General Electric GEnx engines.

Progress continues on the fleet. The first flight test airplane, ZA001, is getting its paint touched up this week before finishing factory testing. Power was brought onto the second airplane, ZA002, in late February and build verification tests are progressing well. Production work continues on ZA003, ZA004 and ZA005. In all, assemblies for 31 Dreamliners are currently in production throughout the supply chain.

The 787 Dreamliner has orders for 878 airplanes from 57 customers.

Source : Boeing
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Old 24th Mar 2009, 00:36
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No mention of the fact that when the recent hull pressure tests were done it leaked like a sieve??

And any mention of the fuel tanks being filled with water on the weekend to test for leaks etc..or whatever else you would do with H2O.............and large cracking sounds scared the poop out of them and they are looking into what has failed in the fuel cells .

Do not get me wrong, I am a pro Boeing person and I think the 787 will eventually be the aircraft of the future, and i know from first hand experience at what testing times you have when you are on the leading edge of development, but it would seem there are quite a lot more hurdles in the race to the finish....... and some of them are very well hidden at this point it seems.

So what is the story GB? Any clues or are my sources further in than yours?

J
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Old 24th Mar 2009, 01:45
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aviation rule #1

never buy the 'A' model of anything....

even the B-17 took seven years to from a flying prototype to being "combat" ready...
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