Pacific Blue about to park aircraft
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Pacific Blue about to park aircraft
Pacific Blue is in the unenviable situation of being on the verge of cancelling flights due to a lack of Cabin Crew and/or Tech Crew. The Office Workers (I won't call them Managers as that would be unfair to those people who have a Management qualification or some ability in the role) have created a situation where attrition has now outstripped supply far beyond the general Pilot shortage. The fact the attrition rate of both Tech and Cabin crew is threatening PB shows a systematic problem.
Sadly, it has taken many senior pilots to remove themselves to other jobs, for the Office Workers to begin to look in the mirror. Amazingly, they have only just begun to recognise how badly they have stuffed things up (by their own admission). The head Office Worker, a temporary CEO with no prior CEO experience, appointed from VB when the first choice pulled out at the last minute, is woefully out of touch with the workforce. When he does try and 'engage' a member of front line staff he is universally distrusted and disliked.
Can anyone expand on the timeframe and consequences of having the Office Workers steadily destroying a potentially great little outfit?
Sad but true...
Sadly, it has taken many senior pilots to remove themselves to other jobs, for the Office Workers to begin to look in the mirror. Amazingly, they have only just begun to recognise how badly they have stuffed things up (by their own admission). The head Office Worker, a temporary CEO with no prior CEO experience, appointed from VB when the first choice pulled out at the last minute, is woefully out of touch with the workforce. When he does try and 'engage' a member of front line staff he is universally distrusted and disliked.
Can anyone expand on the timeframe and consequences of having the Office Workers steadily destroying a potentially great little outfit?
Sad but true...
Well thank goodness it has finally come to this. Perhaps now conditions will change for the better. Unfortunatly you may well have to suffer more discomfort before certain people(wake up &) smell the coffee.
From observing many other airlines(Rex springs to mind) P.B will need to be allmost disfunctional before real steps are taken.
Personally I would just move and save myself the stress, as there are quite a few operators(even in the Pacific) who realize the true worth of the individual.
Good Luck and don't let the Turkeys get you down!
From observing many other airlines(Rex springs to mind) P.B will need to be allmost disfunctional before real steps are taken.
Personally I would just move and save myself the stress, as there are quite a few operators(even in the Pacific) who realize the true worth of the individual.
Good Luck and don't let the Turkeys get you down!
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As a wise man once said to me; "the bean counters know the cost of everything....... and the VALUE of nothing"
Motivated, skilled and experienced staff, at all levels, are an asset not a liability. This has been hashed and rehashed in these forums before, I know, but just when will the penny drop? There is now talk of "Ultra Low Cost Carriers" what is going to be the procedure there? The pax decide amongst themselves who is going to fuel it, load it, clean it, pre flight it, fly it and fix it?
Motivated, skilled and experienced staff, at all levels, are an asset not a liability. This has been hashed and rehashed in these forums before, I know, but just when will the penny drop? There is now talk of "Ultra Low Cost Carriers" what is going to be the procedure there? The pax decide amongst themselves who is going to fuel it, load it, clean it, pre flight it, fly it and fix it?
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PB just had a Birthday bash in Christchurch. Christchurch being the main base, you would think there would be a descent turn out. A total of three (3) pilots (non-management) turned up. How many red flags do you need!
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Well at least they invited the pilots to their party - last big Qantas party, they forgot to invite a couple of groups who may have seen the value - the pilots and engineers! (after all these groups may have contributed a little to the airline over the last 85odd yrs)....... ahwell they did invite Johnny T and whoever does that inflight Q show. Nows thats important.
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I am 40 years old. I would like to be a pilot. If someone will (subject to my successfully passing the requisite exams, getting an ATPL and showing that I'm competent at handling the heavy metal) pay for my training from ab-initio (ok, I have 11 hours) - and I'm not even asking to be paid a salary during that time - and then agrees to pay me a realistic salary at the end of it, I will happily change careers. Even my wife would be happy for me to not earn anything for a couple of years, but she's not so happy about not having anything coming in, AND racking up more debt, AND having no guarantee about anything decent at the other end.
I'm reasonably bright (3 degrees (including a Masters) and MENSA membership), fit for my age (I run a 4h29m marathon and looking to improve that this year), good sight (tested last week) and clearly very interested in aviation (which is why I am on PPRuNe). From now, I have 25 years to ICAO retirement age.
The fact that airlines were sacking people and closing cadet schemes when I left school still dogs me.
My point is that the training regime is almost exclusively slanted to youngsters - you either get on the ladder straight out of school, or forget it. Hence the industry is cutting itself off from a vast number of potentially excellent pilot candidates. I would be happy to have a pay-back bond (ie. we'll pay you well, but leave within 5 years and you pay us back). Indeed, us oldies have generally sorted out sh!t into only one pile and are more likely to be very solid contributors for the full 20-25 years; we won't train up, get jaded at 45 and nick off to open a pub.
And before comparisons with other industries are trotted out - I did my law degrees part-time, they were not expensive and I could work in a related industry at the same time for realistic money, in Australia there is HECS-HELP for academic studies (but not for flying). I am not saying that competence should be dumbed-down - more that there are people other than spotty 17 year olds who'd like to fly, but like you 'managers', we may have houses and kids we need to pay for. A trainee lawyer (and I know several in late-30s/early-40s) goes back to zero, but it's for two years and the cash is still pretty good. And after the two years' training, the earning potential goes exponential and it's not unreasonable to look at a partnership within 10 years or so.
But there are lots of us and we could solve your crewing problems in a reasonably short time...
I'm reasonably bright (3 degrees (including a Masters) and MENSA membership), fit for my age (I run a 4h29m marathon and looking to improve that this year), good sight (tested last week) and clearly very interested in aviation (which is why I am on PPRuNe). From now, I have 25 years to ICAO retirement age.
The fact that airlines were sacking people and closing cadet schemes when I left school still dogs me.
My point is that the training regime is almost exclusively slanted to youngsters - you either get on the ladder straight out of school, or forget it. Hence the industry is cutting itself off from a vast number of potentially excellent pilot candidates. I would be happy to have a pay-back bond (ie. we'll pay you well, but leave within 5 years and you pay us back). Indeed, us oldies have generally sorted out sh!t into only one pile and are more likely to be very solid contributors for the full 20-25 years; we won't train up, get jaded at 45 and nick off to open a pub.
And before comparisons with other industries are trotted out - I did my law degrees part-time, they were not expensive and I could work in a related industry at the same time for realistic money, in Australia there is HECS-HELP for academic studies (but not for flying). I am not saying that competence should be dumbed-down - more that there are people other than spotty 17 year olds who'd like to fly, but like you 'managers', we may have houses and kids we need to pay for. A trainee lawyer (and I know several in late-30s/early-40s) goes back to zero, but it's for two years and the cash is still pretty good. And after the two years' training, the earning potential goes exponential and it's not unreasonable to look at a partnership within 10 years or so.
But there are lots of us and we could solve your crewing problems in a reasonably short time...
Last edited by Taildragger67; 13th Mar 2008 at 13:53. Reason: Fixing typos
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Taildragger, wash your mouth out young man! you be speak da common sense......you have a lot to learn...common sense hath NO place in airline management
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taildragger is a genius ....
Taildragger....my god some one speaks sense for once.
Same boat, 37 years have a degree in commerce, fit etc and have 200 plus hours and would love to get into aviation.....but also have a life to support..............happy to take a pay cut for acouple of years if the program you mention comes into play.
lets not hold our breathes heh!!!
Same boat, 37 years have a degree in commerce, fit etc and have 200 plus hours and would love to get into aviation.....but also have a life to support..............happy to take a pay cut for acouple of years if the program you mention comes into play.
lets not hold our breathes heh!!!
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Victim?
Life is made of choices gentlemen. None of you are victims of your time, you could have chosen not to get married, pursued Mensa memberships or got yourselves financially leveraged as you burdened yourselves with other responsibilities.
It is not the job of an employer to pay for you to become a doctor, a lawyer or a teacher, but once you are one; you are payed for advancement studies by same.
That is to say that somebody who pursues employment and undertakes a responsibility that should've been borne by the employer in the first place, (ie: a type-rating that is only good on one aircraft), cannot sincerely call themselves a professional. Indeed, it is more akin to graft.
Pacific Blue has chosen to go down a failed path of lack of respect for the professionalism of the majority of the pilot population who refuse to engage in such folly.
Your life's choices are your own and are not the fault of changing times, demographics or personal expectations, nor are they the fault of this industry.
It is not the job of an employer to pay for you to become a doctor, a lawyer or a teacher, but once you are one; you are payed for advancement studies by same.
That is to say that somebody who pursues employment and undertakes a responsibility that should've been borne by the employer in the first place, (ie: a type-rating that is only good on one aircraft), cannot sincerely call themselves a professional. Indeed, it is more akin to graft.
Pacific Blue has chosen to go down a failed path of lack of respect for the professionalism of the majority of the pilot population who refuse to engage in such folly.
Your life's choices are your own and are not the fault of changing times, demographics or personal expectations, nor are they the fault of this industry.
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KC,
Don't get me wrong - I'm happy with the choices I've made. If I had chosen flying straight out of school, I would not have met my wife, would not have travelled (personal account) as I have, studied what I have, and so on.
What I am saying, is that right now, if I won the lottery, I'd take up flying.
Also, that there seems to be a limited pool of talent which some users of that talent, are finding hard to get.
Other professions/vocations etc. are finding similar problems and so are making structural changes across the board to tap an older pool of candidates; law is one.
If it gets bad enough, carriers will have to rely less on self-funded kiddies and make it worthwhile for us longer-toothed; if they don't have to go down that road, then it's clearly not that bad.
But I am happy with my life and the choices I've made.
Don't get me wrong - I'm happy with the choices I've made. If I had chosen flying straight out of school, I would not have met my wife, would not have travelled (personal account) as I have, studied what I have, and so on.
What I am saying, is that right now, if I won the lottery, I'd take up flying.
Also, that there seems to be a limited pool of talent which some users of that talent, are finding hard to get.
Other professions/vocations etc. are finding similar problems and so are making structural changes across the board to tap an older pool of candidates; law is one.
If it gets bad enough, carriers will have to rely less on self-funded kiddies and make it worthwhile for us longer-toothed; if they don't have to go down that road, then it's clearly not that bad.
But I am happy with my life and the choices I've made.
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I think we loosing the point here chaps, the fact is we choose to be pilots and some of us chose to work for PB (silly us not for much longer) and they have changed our work conditions and never bothered talking to us, we have no voice, If your thinking of joining PB DONT,. untill more aircraft are parked the Office workers wont listen. When they do it may become a airline worth working for but while these idiots can put a bandage on the problems and tell each other how well they are doing nothing will change.
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Any truth to the rumor that PB is getting Embraers to fly out here in little old NZ?
Just heard that might be the case (from the grapevine) so its probably not true, but non the less, a good rumor!
Just heard that might be the case (from the grapevine) so its probably not true, but non the less, a good rumor!
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The hole management has dug for themselves just gets deeper. Another 2 training captains have resigned this month and because of the way training captains have been abused by the roster system, and then only for a part time job, no one is interested in replacing them. Even when the realization is made that the crew need to be employed the company is talking about forming a separate company to employ them. All this demonstrates is a lack of commitment to the New Zealand market as the only benefit would be the ability to close the crewing company down without affecting the airline.
Don't go anywhere near PB until this is all sorted is the only advise I can give anyone considering it.
Don't go anywhere near PB until this is all sorted is the only advise I can give anyone considering it.
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Taildragger, Kangaroo Court got it right, you either do it or you don't do it. It's up to you. When I left my well paid job to pursue flying I knew that about 15% of new CPL's were getting work within six months of qualifying so I decided to do whatever it took it be in the top 10% of everything I did with regard flying. Exam results, driving around Aus looking for jobs, effort put in etc, I just went as hard as I could. It has a price and effects every other part of your life cause there is only so much energy to be allocated. I'm now a jet F/o , not working too hard and getting paid well, was it worth it?....debatable, I say yes but others around me are still astounded by the sacafices that were made. Make a D and either do it or don't, you'll be competing against some very determined people but there are a lot of jobs around now so it should be ok, maybe you'll only have to live out bush on powdered milk for six months instead of 30. PS, don't tell em you're a mensa member....... steadiness and reliability are more important than sky high IQ's when it comes to getting the job done safely.
Hope you do it, it is really a good job, (not PB....just the job in general) cheers.
Hope you do it, it is really a good job, (not PB....just the job in general) cheers.
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If the Aust/NZ expats came back home there wouldn't be a pilot shortage here. Trouble is good pilots keep leaving because of the way several airlines here treat them with contempt. You can "train" as many as you like, but I think "retain" is a word the Office Workers need to get into their vocabulary.