Q Engineering EBA VIII
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Q Engineering EBA VIII
Before you moderator types lock this one off, perhaps anyone inciting or partaking in unsavory posting should be the ones locked off, the rest of us can behave ourselves......
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Seems to be true, a couple of the antagonistic lower level managers were removed
from the negotiation and they are most likely the same stooges that posted here.
They wanted the thread closed as it was stirring too much company wide and public support.
Sad to see 1,088 posts and 71,800 views excluded because of some corporate rednecks.
Moderators, please lock them, not the rest of civilised world.
PS I have just heard that since their removal from the negotiation, there has been some REAL progress made.
from the negotiation and they are most likely the same stooges that posted here.
They wanted the thread closed as it was stirring too much company wide and public support.
Sad to see 1,088 posts and 71,800 views excluded because of some corporate rednecks.
Moderators, please lock them, not the rest of civilised world.
PS I have just heard that since their removal from the negotiation, there has been some REAL progress made.
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Yes the Fat controller and Darling were absent from the negotiations on friday the 4th. It seams they made some progress on that day.
Anyone got any info on the subsequent meetings?
Bonus point for Lames in levels 1-8
Increase in the quota caps
Bonus scheme linked to executive bonus scheme (same as the pilots)
Salary sacrifice into divisions 1,2,3
10% division 6
Backpay (sign on bonus same as LH CC)
XPT gone
Part time, casual capped @?
Definition of employee?
3% unchanged?
Anyone heard any more info?
Anyone got any info on the subsequent meetings?
Bonus point for Lames in levels 1-8
Increase in the quota caps
Bonus scheme linked to executive bonus scheme (same as the pilots)
Salary sacrifice into divisions 1,2,3
10% division 6
Backpay (sign on bonus same as LH CC)
XPT gone
Part time, casual capped @?
Definition of employee?
3% unchanged?
Anyone heard any more info?
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5% or Nothing
All the talk of sweeteners still doesnt cut, inflation is running at 4.2% and 5% is a realistic request, especially with the money the company is making and the managers are taking...
I wont be voting for any sweeteners its still 5% or go jump....the time for action is now, time the company felt a bit of pain and the managers be held accountable for all the cost cutting and ridiculous changes for the sake of change....which have proven to be a huge backwards step...
5% is achieveable and I believe we should bow out for less, no matter what deals or added items are presented...
I wont be voting for any sweeteners its still 5% or go jump....the time for action is now, time the company felt a bit of pain and the managers be held accountable for all the cost cutting and ridiculous changes for the sake of change....which have proven to be a huge backwards step...
5% is achieveable and I believe we should bow out for less, no matter what deals or added items are presented...
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You need to get the basic pay level increased.
The ALAEA can organise all sorts of deals that give current employees an acceptable pay rise along with a 3% increase(ie extra points, bonuses, quota adjustments, profit share etc).
However this only benefits the encumbents and does not attract good people. No one in with half a brain would agree to to do an 4 year apprenticeship to finish up on approx $45KPA approx with extremely limited prospects of career advancement, as QF currently offers.
The ALAEA needs to break the thinking that 3% is the best on offer. It belittles yourselves and the occupation of Licences Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.
As an example: I left QF after 20 yrs as a level 9 LAME and if I was to come back it would only be as a level 6. It's too easy to find employment that pays better than a level 6 LAME. I would love to come back, (and I daresay QF could do with more experienced LAMES) but its easier to find something that pays more.
Go for 5% or nothing.
The ALAEA can organise all sorts of deals that give current employees an acceptable pay rise along with a 3% increase(ie extra points, bonuses, quota adjustments, profit share etc).
However this only benefits the encumbents and does not attract good people. No one in with half a brain would agree to to do an 4 year apprenticeship to finish up on approx $45KPA approx with extremely limited prospects of career advancement, as QF currently offers.
The ALAEA needs to break the thinking that 3% is the best on offer. It belittles yourselves and the occupation of Licences Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.
As an example: I left QF after 20 yrs as a level 9 LAME and if I was to come back it would only be as a level 6. It's too easy to find employment that pays better than a level 6 LAME. I would love to come back, (and I daresay QF could do with more experienced LAMES) but its easier to find something that pays more.
Go for 5% or nothing.
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i too would consider coming back but not as a lvl 3 Lame,53k p/a is not what you get with 20 yrs industry experience,these fools in management need to wake up to themselves,entry level should start at at least 65k p/a.
God knows it sounds like they need extra bodies.
God knows it sounds like they need extra bodies.
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Too right they need bodies.
Whether it's a transit or an A Check there is not enough engineering staff to complete all the maintenance required before the bus needs to fly again. So extra time is expended prioritizing and/or stamping off work that should have been completed this time around. It makes us less productive.
Hence you can name the time when you will work OT, if you are that way inclined. But seriously, is that any way to run an A/C engineering business? I don't think so.
Management still haven't woken up to the fact that there aren't hundreds of experienced engineering personnel just waiting at the gates to get in. Until they start offering decent renumeration there never will be. Unfortunately, until management get their eyes off their own bonuses and onto the business QF engineering will only go backwards.
Please don't use the excuse that "it just snuck up on us" like you did with dispatch reliability, M. We warned you before and we have warned you again!!
Whether it's a transit or an A Check there is not enough engineering staff to complete all the maintenance required before the bus needs to fly again. So extra time is expended prioritizing and/or stamping off work that should have been completed this time around. It makes us less productive.
Hence you can name the time when you will work OT, if you are that way inclined. But seriously, is that any way to run an A/C engineering business? I don't think so.
Management still haven't woken up to the fact that there aren't hundreds of experienced engineering personnel just waiting at the gates to get in. Until they start offering decent renumeration there never will be. Unfortunately, until management get their eyes off their own bonuses and onto the business QF engineering will only go backwards.
Please don't use the excuse that "it just snuck up on us" like you did with dispatch reliability, M. We warned you before and we have warned you again!!
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The rumour doing the rounds that certain "lower managers" have been excluded from the companies negotiating team are just that, roumers. The fat controller has never been involved, and as far as I can tell M has not been ejected. Sorry to say just wishfull thinking.
Bonus scheme linked to executive bonus scheme (same as the pilots)
)It might be a factor in the latest EBA but we have not been informed of its details as yet.
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Smile and Wave boys, Smile and Wave
It is all smoke and mirrors, management have you all back at work to get the busy holiday period done.
My guess is that at the end of the show of good faith from Qf it will all revert to the status quo.
Qf will be happy that christmas is over, they have had 3 weeks to train the strike breakers and there bonuses will be growing.
Don't lose sight of what you are striving to achieve,because if you do then it is going to hurt like a b1tch.
My guess is that at the end of the show of good faith from Qf it will all revert to the status quo.
Qf will be happy that christmas is over, they have had 3 weeks to train the strike breakers and there bonuses will be growing.
Don't lose sight of what you are striving to achieve,because if you do then it is going to hurt like a b1tch.
Last edited by another superlame; 14th Jan 2008 at 01:14. Reason: It needed a smiley face
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Another Superlame, I must say how refreshing your inciteful and well balanced comentary on the latest industrial strife is. What a pity there are not more like yourself of such obvious mental agility, I mean to say who can argue with such razor sharp repartee? One does not stand a chance when confronted with such logical debate.
I think its in QF's interests to string you along as far as possible.
It might be instructive to calculate how much "back pay" Qantas accumulates every week they can keep you on a lower rate, and more importantly, the interest on that back pay each week - which I expect you don't receive.
My guess would be that it is in QF's interest to delay any settlement for as long as is humanly possible...ie: until you all get up to walk out the door.
Assume cost of funds = 6% pa
Say 2000 Lames at an average of $80K all up per year.
Thats 2000 X 80,000 X 3% = 4.8 million but of course thats a full year
Interest on half of that at 6% is $144,000 that Qantas has saved by delaying settlement with you (less consultants fees) .
I'm sure PAF will be only to happy to get out his calculator and do the proper compound interest calculation for you to get an exact answer.
You might also like to think of the tax implications of receiving such a lump sum as well.
It might be instructive to calculate how much "back pay" Qantas accumulates every week they can keep you on a lower rate, and more importantly, the interest on that back pay each week - which I expect you don't receive.
My guess would be that it is in QF's interest to delay any settlement for as long as is humanly possible...ie: until you all get up to walk out the door.
Assume cost of funds = 6% pa
Say 2000 Lames at an average of $80K all up per year.
Thats 2000 X 80,000 X 3% = 4.8 million but of course thats a full year
Interest on half of that at 6% is $144,000 that Qantas has saved by delaying settlement with you (less consultants fees) .
I'm sure PAF will be only to happy to get out his calculator and do the proper compound interest calculation for you to get an exact answer.
You might also like to think of the tax implications of receiving such a lump sum as well.
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Sunfish, I guess someones ego is getting in the way of logic.
30 scabs sitting on their butts @ $100k = $3,000,000. for 6 months
$3M X 2 (ie p/a) = $6,000,000.
Seems like delaying tactics does not add up.
plus ça change
30 scabs sitting on their butts @ $100k = $3,000,000. for 6 months
$3M X 2 (ie p/a) = $6,000,000.
Seems like delaying tactics does not add up.
plus ça change
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 14th Jan 2008 at 05:04. Reason: because I can
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Sunfish I think you are dead right, the only point I will dissagree on however is that the dealy tactic is not untill we walk out the door but untill such time as the "back pay" amount is enough to sway the middle ground into an acceptance of the EBA Q engineering have put on the table. It is a big stick they always like to wave, but in my humble and un complicated opinion it shouldn't even be mentioned in negotiation, it is a fait acompli.
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Sunfish,
Don't forget the pi**ed off employee factor. With on time departures heading south from 90% at a great rate of knots, how much is that really costing them?
Big E
Don't forget the pi**ed off employee factor. With on time departures heading south from 90% at a great rate of knots, how much is that really costing them?
Big E
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Win, lose or draw QF has lost!
Sad but true, the only winners out of the current debacle is the consultants on an hourly rate and retainer, maybe some managers who scam a bonus before all is exposed and realised.
Qf staff are now disengaged and reeling from the lies, deceit, stupidity and greed of QF mismanagement.
Virgin, John Holland and even Jetstar roll on with more content and engaged people BUILDING BUSINESSES RATHER THAN DESTROYING. TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF QF'S STUPIDITY BY POACHING THE BEST PEOPLE QF IS GIVING AWAY. TRAINING AND PREPARING FOR THE FUTURE. QF has destroyed the can do of its people. The clowns at the top sit scratching their heads why deskilling, underpaying and outsourcing does not work as planned.
The FUD factor has lost its potency, record profits year after year followed by relatively reducing wages in the industry has hit the nerve. We will soon find out if the members will sell cheaply, I doubt they will now as too many are really pissed and are happy to fully expose the shortfalls of current management to aid their plight.
The young talent isn't staying or starting. They see and are offered no future.
Even being trained will see them paid 30% less than their equivalent at VB or JQ.
Those higher up the chain get equivalent money for much more responsibility and training than the VB or JQ.
Why has our daft management set such a stupid agenda defies belief but is explained by two wordsGREED and STUPIDITY
.
Will QF ever recover?
Qf staff are now disengaged and reeling from the lies, deceit, stupidity and greed of QF mismanagement.
Virgin, John Holland and even Jetstar roll on with more content and engaged people BUILDING BUSINESSES RATHER THAN DESTROYING. TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF QF'S STUPIDITY BY POACHING THE BEST PEOPLE QF IS GIVING AWAY. TRAINING AND PREPARING FOR THE FUTURE. QF has destroyed the can do of its people. The clowns at the top sit scratching their heads why deskilling, underpaying and outsourcing does not work as planned.
The FUD factor has lost its potency, record profits year after year followed by relatively reducing wages in the industry has hit the nerve. We will soon find out if the members will sell cheaply, I doubt they will now as too many are really pissed and are happy to fully expose the shortfalls of current management to aid their plight.
The young talent isn't staying or starting. They see and are offered no future.
Even being trained will see them paid 30% less than their equivalent at VB or JQ.
Those higher up the chain get equivalent money for much more responsibility and training than the VB or JQ.
Why has our daft management set such a stupid agenda defies belief but is explained by two wordsGREED and STUPIDITY
.Will QF ever recover?