Sunfish I think you are dead right, the only point I will dissagree on however is that the dealy tactic is not untill we walk out the door but untill such time as the "back pay" amount is enough to sway the middle ground into an acceptance of the EBA Q engineering have put on the table. It is a big stick they always like to wave, but in my humble and un complicated opinion it shouldn't even be mentioned in negotiation, it is a fait acompli.