Massive QF aircraft orders
Either way you look at it, its good news.
The latest order for 738's....did QF get them at the same price as they did on the intial batch that were originally AA orders?
Jetstar Asia, Vietnam, are these aircaft that Aussies can fly or do you have to be from singapore or Vietnam national.
As far as domestric market growth is concerned, I dont think we have even scratched the surface of its potential. Every week almost I meet people who in the last 12 months have had their FIRST ever plane ride and they wonder why it took so long to actually travel on a plane. All are planning to do more travel now.
The latest order for 738's....did QF get them at the same price as they did on the intial batch that were originally AA orders?
Jetstar Asia, Vietnam, are these aircaft that Aussies can fly or do you have to be from singapore or Vietnam national.
As far as domestric market growth is concerned, I dont think we have even scratched the surface of its potential. Every week almost I meet people who in the last 12 months have had their FIRST ever plane ride and they wonder why it took so long to actually travel on a plane. All are planning to do more travel now.
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I hope they have booked their maintenace check slots somewhere. They certainly don't have the capability to maintain them in Australia at the moment and don't look like their working to ramp up their facilities/staff numbers at the present time.
Along with seemingly alienating 80% of QF group pilots, QF have pi$$ed off 95% of engineers.
This sort of growth without experienced people as key stakeholders is asking for trouble.
I guess I'm preaching to the converted here.
Along with seemingly alienating 80% of QF group pilots, QF have pi$$ed off 95% of engineers.
This sort of growth without experienced people as key stakeholders is asking for trouble.
I guess I'm preaching to the converted here.
Initial reports from within say that jetstar are taking over the qantaslink ops in perth and darwin so not many new crews will be needed in those places only down south will we need the addititon crews
nig not nog
nig not nog
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nig&nog wrote:
Are you saying that Dixon is going to cancel the contract with NJS, and have Jetstar absorb the QFLink operation?
If that is so and they 'take over' the flight and cabin crew, as well as the airframes, life might start to look brighter again.
Initial reports from within say that jetstar are taking over the qantaslink ops in perth and darwin
If that is so and they 'take over' the flight and cabin crew, as well as the airframes, life might start to look brighter again.
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In 5 years the remaining engineers in QF will be retiring or leaving due to such poor conditions, everyone knows widely there is a pilot shortage, but you dont seem to here as much about the engineering situation, that is dire in QF, At least 50% of the young guys that joined QF Since 1999 have already left to other airlines or out the industry there is simply no one to hand down to now. 380 will also will be outsource due no one being actually available on the inside. So for the remaining pilots flying in the qf fleet you may find yourselves signing your own techlogs mean while enjoying the quality of OS heavy Maint.
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. I still have no scope... or understanding of how serious crewing shortages are, and how they will be in the next 1/2 years...
As I'm abroad.. I have no clue. But what it DOES SEEM LIKE to me at the moment that no airline can hack the thought of spending money on training, so they're all starting to FIGHT for the most esperienced people.... Look at one Chinese operator - offering awesome packages for jet drivers...
?? Someone please inform me.
WWA
As I'm abroad.. I have no clue. But what it DOES SEEM LIKE to me at the moment that no airline can hack the thought of spending money on training, so they're all starting to FIGHT for the most esperienced people.... Look at one Chinese operator - offering awesome packages for jet drivers...
?? Someone please inform me.
WWA
it's a good thing that Jackson is going because she seems to be capable of "Double Think" - believing two contrary beliefs at the same time...
Ordering 8 billion in new aircraft requires a somewhat rosy outlook for the future and a very great deal of confidence.................................................. ....................yet:
Please explain????????
Perhaps the best advice for Qantas watchers is "Don't listen to what they say, look at what they do."
Ordering 8 billion in new aircraft requires a somewhat rosy outlook for the future and a very great deal of confidence.................................................. ....................yet:
QANTAS chairman Margaret Jackson predicts that the current "purple patch" in the world aviation industry could hit "turbulence" in a year or two.
Speaking on the eve of her retirement after 15 years on the Qantas board, the last eight as chairman, Ms Jackson said her successor, Leigh Clifford, would probably have a year or two before he had to deal with "some speed bumps" in the industry.................................................... ............................................................ ...Jackson also expressed her concerns at the potential impact of federal Labor's industrial relations policy on Qantas, warning that it could reduce flexibility in the airline's 34,000-strong workforce.
Speaking on the eve of her retirement after 15 years on the Qantas board, the last eight as chairman, Ms Jackson said her successor, Leigh Clifford, would probably have a year or two before he had to deal with "some speed bumps" in the industry.................................................... ............................................................ ...Jackson also expressed her concerns at the potential impact of federal Labor's industrial relations policy on Qantas, warning that it could reduce flexibility in the airline's 34,000-strong workforce.
Perhaps the best advice for Qantas watchers is "Don't listen to what they say, look at what they do."
Evertonian
Does that mean that Darth is going to clone himself and create Mini Darth
ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!?
Throw me a friggin' bone here people! 
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B717'S to go
correct
jetstar will be taking over the Qantaslink routes in time as NJS was and is a fill in operator tilll the big order was finally announced!! As the 717s made a perfect stop gap, so all u NJS crews will have opportunities in the future. Also believe that the A319 has also been looked at for Qlink ops. 4 of the 734's will be converted for AAe operations when they become available but the suitability of this type for the PER-MEL-PER route still a bother for AAe. Toll are currently looking for a better aircraft for the same route with "surprise 
" the B727 x2 as the best cost for Kg at the moment. But good aircraft hard to source!!!. On the freight front the A320 Conversion has been mooted as a future consideration put forward by Jstar to Qf/AAe. Now theres food for thought
jetstar will be taking over the Qantaslink routes in time as NJS was and is a fill in operator tilll the big order was finally announced!! As the 717s made a perfect stop gap, so all u NJS crews will have opportunities in the future. Also believe that the A319 has also been looked at for Qlink ops. 4 of the 734's will be converted for AAe operations when they become available but the suitability of this type for the PER-MEL-PER route still a bother for AAe. Toll are currently looking for a better aircraft for the same route with "surprise " the B727 x2 as the best cost for Kg at the moment. But good aircraft hard to source!!!. On the freight front the A320 Conversion has been mooted as a future consideration put forward by Jstar to Qf/AAe. Now theres food for thought
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No mention of any A319's in the order...
a persistent little rumour nonetheless.
Rumour : A piece of information of questionable accuracy, from no known reliable source, usually spread by word of mouth.
Hey! just like the BIG qflink announcement.
a persistent little rumour nonetheless.
Rumour : A piece of information of questionable accuracy, from no known reliable source, usually spread by word of mouth.
Hey! just like the BIG qflink announcement.
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mavrik1 question #29
mavrik1, there is still ample suitable engineering staff in QF at the moment to do the A380.
Yes they are older, but with decades of experience and can adapt in short time to be very proficient,
as has been done in the past. It is just that management want to drive an almighty wedge into the
engineering structure and break its back all for the sake of a few bucks and a bigger bonus. JHAS will help this happen.
If they do as it has been done over the last 50 years, ie train the older experienced LAMES
initially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years.
Do it now or it will be too late.
Older guys have loyalty to the old QF & Super schemes holding them at QF, younger guys have little or no loyalty to hold them there even once trained.
They, QF management, are so blinded by the tripe their bosses feed them and their lack of A/C background will not lead then to this path. Just the path of extinction.
Yes they are older, but with decades of experience and can adapt in short time to be very proficient,
as has been done in the past. It is just that management want to drive an almighty wedge into the
engineering structure and break its back all for the sake of a few bucks and a bigger bonus. JHAS will help this happen.
If they do as it has been done over the last 50 years, ie train the older experienced LAMES
initially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years.
Do it now or it will be too late.
Older guys have loyalty to the old QF & Super schemes holding them at QF, younger guys have little or no loyalty to hold them there even once trained.
They, QF management, are so blinded by the tripe their bosses feed them and their lack of A/C background will not lead then to this path. Just the path of extinction.
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 16th Nov 2007 at 01:03.
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training filter through the ranks. Whhaaaattt.
Short Circuit "train the older experienced LAMES initially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years."
Thats half the problem why the young ones arent loyal and leave because you never end up letting young ones filter through to start and gain knowledge on the job. The old boys think they will take thier jobs.
Look at QF MEL, Inter Line Maint, that place is a joke, there's not a bloke in the under 30yrs catergory, young guys are screaming to have a go but they get kept in the hangers, so after 6 to 8 years they tend to leave. Take a look at MEL CX engineering, it is now practically ran by a bunch of ex QF trained youngsters out of the hangar and doing a bloody good job of it, never seen such a learning curve.
They also handle more A/C per head count, run all the station duty's by themselves and have MAS IFE training to carry out that work on transits. Its a pity they have to leave thier own Australian based carrier and go to the Asian opposition just to get the career they well deserve.
The taking under the wing and learn method that was devolped at QF is a thing of the past from where I'm sitting.
Imagine the cost base and performance of QF line Maint if they actively got ame's involved in real line maint at QF(ie, bull**** wing walking), now that would be scary, it would be good to give those old boys some relief aswell, hell the young blood would probably spike up the moral a bit too.
Can only dream.
Thats half the problem why the young ones arent loyal and leave because you never end up letting young ones filter through to start and gain knowledge on the job. The old boys think they will take thier jobs.
Look at QF MEL, Inter Line Maint, that place is a joke, there's not a bloke in the under 30yrs catergory, young guys are screaming to have a go but they get kept in the hangers, so after 6 to 8 years they tend to leave. Take a look at MEL CX engineering, it is now practically ran by a bunch of ex QF trained youngsters out of the hangar and doing a bloody good job of it, never seen such a learning curve.
They also handle more A/C per head count, run all the station duty's by themselves and have MAS IFE training to carry out that work on transits. Its a pity they have to leave thier own Australian based carrier and go to the Asian opposition just to get the career they well deserve.
The taking under the wing and learn method that was devolped at QF is a thing of the past from where I'm sitting.
Imagine the cost base and performance of QF line Maint if they actively got ame's involved in real line maint at QF(ie, bull**** wing walking), now that would be scary, it would be good to give those old boys some relief aswell, hell the young blood would probably spike up the moral a bit too.
Can only dream.
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So you are suggesting that a young AME would be better suited to be trained to introduce new type / generation A/C / with new EASA type licensing system.
That does not compute!
An AME is far better off learning on the job type experience before his / her first type.
There is more to learn than nuts & bolts.
The old blokes won’t be here forever so training will always be ongoing.
From time to time all training stops, how often has that happened,
only to open in a big hurry when, oops, all the licences are deserting, as they are now.
Its just another cycle.
The cycle always go full circle.
Seen it too many times now.
That does not compute!
An AME is far better off learning on the job type experience before his / her first type.
There is more to learn than nuts & bolts.
The old blokes won’t be here forever so training will always be ongoing.
From time to time all training stops, how often has that happened,
only to open in a big hurry when, oops, all the licences are deserting, as they are now.
Its just another cycle.
The cycle always go full circle.
Seen it too many times now.
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Originally Posted by mavrik
Short Circuit "train the older experienced LAMES i
Originally Posted by mavrik
nitially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years."
Originally Posted by mavrik
Thats half the problem why the young ones arent loyal and leave because you never end up letting young ones filter through to start and gain knowledge on the job. The old boys think they will take thier jobs.
Look at QF MEL, Inter Line Maint, that place is a joke, there's not a bloke in the under 30yrs catergory, young guys are screaming to have a go but they get kept in the hangers, so after 6 to 8 years they tend to leave. Take a look at MEL CX engineering, it is now practically ran by a bunch of ex QF trained youngsters out of the hangar and doing a bloody good job of it, never seen such a learning curve.
They also handle more A/C per head count, run all the station duty's by themselves and have MAS IFE training to carry out that work on transits. Its a pity they have to leave thier own Australian based carrier and go to the Asian opposition just to get the career they well deserve.
The taking under the wing and learn method that was devolped at QF is a thing of the past from where I'm sitting.
Imagine the cost base and performance of QF line Maint if they actively got ame's involved in real line maint at QF(ie, bull**** wing walking), now that would be scary, it would be good to give those old boys some relief aswell, hell the young blood would probably spike up the moral a bit too.
Can only dream.
Look at QF MEL, Inter Line Maint, that place is a joke, there's not a bloke in the under 30yrs catergory, young guys are screaming to have a go but they get kept in the hangers, so after 6 to 8 years they tend to leave. Take a look at MEL CX engineering, it is now practically ran by a bunch of ex QF trained youngsters out of the hangar and doing a bloody good job of it, never seen such a learning curve.
They also handle more A/C per head count, run all the station duty's by themselves and have MAS IFE training to carry out that work on transits. Its a pity they have to leave thier own Australian based carrier and go to the Asian opposition just to get the career they well deserve.
The taking under the wing and learn method that was devolped at QF is a thing of the past from where I'm sitting.
Imagine the cost base and performance of QF line Maint if they actively got ame's involved in real line maint at QF(ie, bull**** wing walking), now that would be scary, it would be good to give those old boys some relief aswell, hell the young blood would probably spike up the moral a bit too.
Can only dream.
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Originally Posted by SC
So you are suggesting that a young AME would be better suited to be trained to introduce new type / generation A/C / with new EASA type licensing system.
Originally Posted by SC
That does not compute!
Why not?
I don't mean everyone on a new tye should be an 18 year old, but why shouldn't there be a mix of young blokes in there as well?
Originally Posted by S C
An AME is far better off learning on the job type experience before his / her first type.
There is more to learn than nuts & bolts.
There is more to learn than nuts & bolts.
What do you mean here?
Personally I think that a bunch of young blokes keep the old farts (of who I would be one) happy and the old farts feel happy that the craft is being passed to the young blokes.
Originally Posted by SC
From time to time all training stops, how often has that happened,
only to open in a big hurry when, oops, all the licences are deserting, as they are now.
Its just another cycle.
The cycle always go full circle.
Seen it too many times now.
only to open in a big hurry when, oops, all the licences are deserting, as they are now.
Its just another cycle.
The cycle always go full circle.
Seen it too many times now.
Which is why the cycle needs to be broken and get young 'uns in on new types.
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OK
SC. "If they do as it has been done over the last 50 years, ie train the older experienced LAMES
initially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years."
I know things go in cycles but times are a little different, I'm not saying don't give licences to the older guys and give it to younger ones but the young guys need to be there to pick up the experience to even be able to use a Licence effiecently. There are young guys with Licences but they wouldn't even no what to do with them in a Line Maint enviroment because they were not brought up on that scene. A AME can do everything except sign the book. Wouldn't that be easier on the older guys. There are still not going anywhere.
Most of the A/C types at QF will still out service the careers of the majority of current senior guys at QF. So whats wrong with them seeing the old gens out and passing a new gen to some young blokes who can prove themselves, at least they can grow with that type and be able to service it into the long future without hand me down experience from the older chaps. You all know how much can be learnt from new types going into service.
It is cost affective aswell, when one guy with a huge pay scale leaves another ame comes on line to play keeping costs down and with more people on the line. We still need the brains of the older guys but the young guys will carry them. What a great learning enviroment.
But I'm dreaming again.
initially and let natural on the job training filter through the ranks there will be ample guys to fill the boots of the older ones who will leave in the next 10 years."
I know things go in cycles but times are a little different, I'm not saying don't give licences to the older guys and give it to younger ones but the young guys need to be there to pick up the experience to even be able to use a Licence effiecently. There are young guys with Licences but they wouldn't even no what to do with them in a Line Maint enviroment because they were not brought up on that scene. A AME can do everything except sign the book. Wouldn't that be easier on the older guys. There are still not going anywhere.
Most of the A/C types at QF will still out service the careers of the majority of current senior guys at QF. So whats wrong with them seeing the old gens out and passing a new gen to some young blokes who can prove themselves, at least they can grow with that type and be able to service it into the long future without hand me down experience from the older chaps. You all know how much can be learnt from new types going into service.
It is cost affective aswell, when one guy with a huge pay scale leaves another ame comes on line to play keeping costs down and with more people on the line. We still need the brains of the older guys but the young guys will carry them. What a great learning enviroment.
But I'm dreaming again.
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Aircraft Orders
No one to my knowledge has mentioned the possibility that many of the aircraft options could be used for leasing purposes in a separate entity owned by the QF group.
Aircraft such as the 787 and others will not be easy to source quickly, hence having access to these aircraft via a leasing company makes good business sense.
DAE capital has done this and it was talked about in the APA takeover of Qantas.
Time will tell but do you think the Australian market is large enough for all these new aircraft plus options?
Aircraft such as the 787 and others will not be easy to source quickly, hence having access to these aircraft via a leasing company makes good business sense.
DAE capital has done this and it was talked about in the APA takeover of Qantas.
Time will tell but do you think the Australian market is large enough for all these new aircraft plus options?
Nunc est bibendum
Fourth hand information suggests that the nett increase of 737 airframes in mainline will be 20. No mention over what time frame this will be.