How can we educate the Public on the Pilot Shortage!
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How can we educate the Public on the Pilot Shortage!
Surely It's time that the general public be educated on how the Pilot shortage has occurred ??
If someone could organize ( AFAP are you listening?) a page long advertisement in the Friday Australian on how Companies have treated pilots for the last twenty years with terms and conditions.
With maybe a link to this site so they can read and learn about the contempt that GA and Airlines have towards it's employees, and how they have continually ignored it's workers for so long that the Pilot shortage has been born.
Include statistics on how much it cost and how long it takes to be qualified for an airline.
Include average wages for a GA pilot.
Include costs associated to keep current, Medicals, books, amendments...etc...
Include statistics on how many skilled Pilots have left Australia for overseas, also mentioning how respected they are. Include the countries in which they work in too and how much they can earn.
Include strories about how A certain Night frieght company blatantly admitted to the pilots, even thought they working more would not get a pay-rise because they "would leave anyway".
Australian Aviation needs to pay it's pilots more.... Lets not let these @#$%ing airlines get away with importing pilots to take our jobs....
They caused the shortage, why should they benefit from cheap overseas labour????
If we can have a fuel surcharge why can't we have a skilled labour surcharge to pay the pilots???
If someone could organize ( AFAP are you listening?) a page long advertisement in the Friday Australian on how Companies have treated pilots for the last twenty years with terms and conditions.
With maybe a link to this site so they can read and learn about the contempt that GA and Airlines have towards it's employees, and how they have continually ignored it's workers for so long that the Pilot shortage has been born.
Include statistics on how much it cost and how long it takes to be qualified for an airline.
Include average wages for a GA pilot.
Include costs associated to keep current, Medicals, books, amendments...etc...
Include statistics on how many skilled Pilots have left Australia for overseas, also mentioning how respected they are. Include the countries in which they work in too and how much they can earn.
Include strories about how A certain Night frieght company blatantly admitted to the pilots, even thought they working more would not get a pay-rise because they "would leave anyway".
Australian Aviation needs to pay it's pilots more.... Lets not let these @#$%ing airlines get away with importing pilots to take our jobs....
They caused the shortage, why should they benefit from cheap overseas labour????
If we can have a fuel surcharge why can't we have a skilled labour surcharge to pay the pilots???
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I dont care if the public cares or not, I just want them to KNOW...... the situation, and I believe it's the AFAP's duty do so.
Seeing what the TWU hs done for the National Joke in such a short time makes me wonder what the AFAP actually does????????
Do you care about the kids in Iraq??? yes or no????
Seeing what the TWU hs done for the National Joke in such a short time makes me wonder what the AFAP actually does????????
Do you care about the kids in Iraq??? yes or no????
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Just how serious is the pilot shortage?
I live in europe and I cant say that I see a real shortage? sure the requirements are going down but they still find people with a couple of hundered hours on type...
I live in europe and I cant say that I see a real shortage? sure the requirements are going down but they still find people with a couple of hundered hours on type...
more than 10,000 hrs jet applied to all jet companies in Aus no replies. What shortage. Rumour not one EK guy has been contacted by tiger for interviews. Whats the go.
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I hear you Charlie but its gonna be a bit hard considering the majority voted for the No Choices Government. Nuff said. Its good to see regardless of all the hurdles the repurcussions are happening right now in the election campaign (GO NJ pilots you good thing!) The public is unaware not only of pilots but how stuffed the system is in all areas including health, education etc. The guts have been ripped out by this government, thata the fact.
Crossbleed : Well Until 5000 diggers are killed it wont match the horror that has occured to the innocent civilians in Iraq. At least the diggers knew the risks. A wrong pathetic war brought on by the government we voted in goddam lets get them out please !
Crossbleed : Well Until 5000 diggers are killed it wont match the horror that has occured to the innocent civilians in Iraq. At least the diggers knew the risks. A wrong pathetic war brought on by the government we voted in goddam lets get them out please !
Do you care about the kids in Iraq??? yes or no????
If they don't want to fight a war, why join the military?
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How can we educate the Public on the Pilot Shortage?
Sadly, like most things in this modern material world, most people will not give 2 stuffs untill it directly affects them.
As AOA said charlie, have patience. The Travelling public will be giving more than 2 stuffs before long. The problem is that untill now, all they have been getting is management/political misinformation and spin.
When things get really grim, that misinformation will need to be adressed!
As AOA said charlie, have patience. The Travelling public will be giving more than 2 stuffs before long. The problem is that untill now, all they have been getting is management/political misinformation and spin.
When things get really grim, that misinformation will need to be adressed!
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I think Krusty is right.
People just want to get on a plane and go from A to B. It's "the plane" that gets them there.. not the 'pilots.' (mental thinking)
Until their flight is cancelled, or frequently cancelled, is when they will start wondering about any pilot shortage.
But good thought Charlie. It'd be nice if people got the right information and facts, compared to being led up the garden path by media and management types.
People just want to get on a plane and go from A to B. It's "the plane" that gets them there.. not the 'pilots.' (mental thinking)
Until their flight is cancelled, or frequently cancelled, is when they will start wondering about any pilot shortage.
But good thought Charlie. It'd be nice if people got the right information and facts, compared to being led up the garden path by media and management types.
Another brilliant idea, Charliethewonderdog
The public don't want to be educated and are already aware that there are shortages of many other skills besides piloting.
The pilots have not been mistreated! They have been paid about as well as the industry can afford - every industry tends to pay their staff about as well as it can afford.
How is it that you are not aware of these basic, basic realities of the world you live in, the country you live in, and the industry you work in? Do you live under a rock but come out occasionally just to post brilliant ideas on PPrune?
You seem to be in a seething rage about how "exploited" the pilots have been. Tell me something. When you sell your house to somebody, obtaining the best price in the process, do you feel you have exploited that person because you extracted a good price?
You need to come to terms with some of the little realities of this industry. One of those little realities is that it is largely dependent on pilots paying vast sums to self fund their training.
Get with it.
The public don't want to be educated and are already aware that there are shortages of many other skills besides piloting.
... how Companies have treated pilots for the last twenty years with terms and conditions.
How is it that you are not aware of these basic, basic realities of the world you live in, the country you live in, and the industry you work in? Do you live under a rock but come out occasionally just to post brilliant ideas on PPrune?
You seem to be in a seething rage about how "exploited" the pilots have been. Tell me something. When you sell your house to somebody, obtaining the best price in the process, do you feel you have exploited that person because you extracted a good price?
You need to come to terms with some of the little realities of this industry. One of those little realities is that it is largely dependent on pilots paying vast sums to self fund their training.
Get with it.
Last edited by aircraft; 26th Oct 2007 at 00:34.
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The pilots have not been mistreated! They have been paid about as well as the industry can afford - every industry tends to pay their staff about as well as they can afford
Well something has gone wrong with this theory - because it looks like what they can/could afford is apparently about to bite them in the arse.
I suspect they may have to learn how to afford a bit more now.
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aircraft:
all I know is that I don't follow mate...
your posts amuse me however..........
When you sell your house to somebody, obtaining the best price in the process, do you feel you have exploited that person because you extracted a good price?
all I know is that I don't follow mate...
your posts amuse me however..........
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Pilot shortage is all well and good. I'm still waiting for that magic call.
It's the engineering shortage that concerns me. Here's my spin on it:
When you get into an aeroplane to fly somewhere, you either interact with your pilot, or if in a bigger machine, you at least know that there is 2/3 pilots up front.
You accept that they have been trained, and have (usually) earned their position.
How do you know what standard of engineering/cost cutting has gone on under the floor? You can't even see what has been done (or not done as the case may be....)
It's the engineering shortage that concerns me. Here's my spin on it:
When you get into an aeroplane to fly somewhere, you either interact with your pilot, or if in a bigger machine, you at least know that there is 2/3 pilots up front.
You accept that they have been trained, and have (usually) earned their position.
How do you know what standard of engineering/cost cutting has gone on under the floor? You can't even see what has been done (or not done as the case may be....)
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Good idea, however one small problem.
Even though the airlines have shafted drivers well and truely over the years, it's going to be a bit hard educating the public that we are hard up. The average Joe Blow unfortunately is working two jobs 6-7 days a week, the wife also, probably earning a total of 50 - 60k a year, then panic when the electricity bill comes in. There is no doubt whatsoever that there is a lot of folk doing it bloody hard at the moment. Then when or if it is exposed how bad the airlines treat us, and we are still earning 130k plus, 10 days or so off a month and 6 weeks holiday a year, I very much doubt we will get much sympathy from the Oz travelling public.
Even though the airlines have shafted drivers well and truely over the years, it's going to be a bit hard educating the public that we are hard up. The average Joe Blow unfortunately is working two jobs 6-7 days a week, the wife also, probably earning a total of 50 - 60k a year, then panic when the electricity bill comes in. There is no doubt whatsoever that there is a lot of folk doing it bloody hard at the moment. Then when or if it is exposed how bad the airlines treat us, and we are still earning 130k plus, 10 days or so off a month and 6 weeks holiday a year, I very much doubt we will get much sympathy from the Oz travelling public.
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I just don't want the Airlines to get an easy ride from the Government when they caused the Pilot shortage.
The public don't care???? well all my friends outside of aviation do!!
They know what it's cost. They know how hard it's been.
You tell them what a GA pilot earns and they laugh, " I got paid more working for coles", or " my girlfriend earns more as receptionist!"
I personally know a dozen pilots that have lost their lives, How many receptionist or coles workers have lost their lives????
You tell them what a RFDS pilot earns and the reply " a ambo driver earns twice that " hmmm.
Then they normally came back with the old chestnut " it will be all worth it when you get to an airline " until you mention that you have to come up $30,000 dollars and then they start to laugh again.
I bet most of you have had the same response's from friends.
A properly run campaign to educate the wider community, who at a guess would probably know someone who is a pilot, so as to explain to them what is required to become a pilot, the training, the costs, the conditions are etc...
Just so they know.......
Or are we too proud or embarrassed to public admit what a weak group of professionals we are??? and that we have been screwed over constantly.
I think so.
During my Career I can honestly say that I am absolutely embarrassed to be apart of group of professionals that can't even fight for basic working conditions.
Companies treat as like the jokes that we are.
By the way I was talking about the KIDS in Iraq ( the thousands that have been killed), proves my point perfectly.
If you don't know you DON'T have to CARE. So educate them.
The public don't care???? well all my friends outside of aviation do!!
They know what it's cost. They know how hard it's been.
You tell them what a GA pilot earns and they laugh, " I got paid more working for coles", or " my girlfriend earns more as receptionist!"
I personally know a dozen pilots that have lost their lives, How many receptionist or coles workers have lost their lives????
You tell them what a RFDS pilot earns and the reply " a ambo driver earns twice that " hmmm.
Then they normally came back with the old chestnut " it will be all worth it when you get to an airline " until you mention that you have to come up $30,000 dollars and then they start to laugh again.
I bet most of you have had the same response's from friends.
A properly run campaign to educate the wider community, who at a guess would probably know someone who is a pilot, so as to explain to them what is required to become a pilot, the training, the costs, the conditions are etc...
Just so they know.......
Or are we too proud or embarrassed to public admit what a weak group of professionals we are??? and that we have been screwed over constantly.
I think so.
During my Career I can honestly say that I am absolutely embarrassed to be apart of group of professionals that can't even fight for basic working conditions.
Companies treat as like the jokes that we are.
By the way I was talking about the KIDS in Iraq ( the thousands that have been killed), proves my point perfectly.
If you don't know you DON'T have to CARE. So educate them.
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Chaliethewonderdog, what is the outcome you wish to achieve? Educate the public for what reason?
I'm actually supportive of aircraft's argument on this one. If you feel that pilots have been screwed, then shame on you. You and every other pilot in Australia could take your services elsewhere if you felt you weren't getting paid enough.
That's not to say I don't support an increase in wages. I do! However, the reason why wages have been so low for years is not the sole blame of airline company execs. They have a job to do and that is to reduce their costs and increase their profits as much as they possibly can. The pilots en masse had very little bargaining power and zero negotiating skills. The corporate execs don't come to work wondering which pilots they can bust down each day.
(Unfortunately, this isn't a good forum for the airline exec. Any one of them who tried to represent the other side would immediately be on the defensive and his/her argument wouldn't have much opportunity to be heard.)
"You get what you negotiate!" You're in a much better position to negotiate your service fees these days and it's getting more favourable with each day. If you go into a meeting with the intention to be the screwer and not the screwee, I can almost guarantee you'll come out as the victim. Know your price and your worth, leave the malice outside and negotiate as a professional and not as a thug.
I'm actually supportive of aircraft's argument on this one. If you feel that pilots have been screwed, then shame on you. You and every other pilot in Australia could take your services elsewhere if you felt you weren't getting paid enough.
That's not to say I don't support an increase in wages. I do! However, the reason why wages have been so low for years is not the sole blame of airline company execs. They have a job to do and that is to reduce their costs and increase their profits as much as they possibly can. The pilots en masse had very little bargaining power and zero negotiating skills. The corporate execs don't come to work wondering which pilots they can bust down each day.
(Unfortunately, this isn't a good forum for the airline exec. Any one of them who tried to represent the other side would immediately be on the defensive and his/her argument wouldn't have much opportunity to be heard.)
"You get what you negotiate!" You're in a much better position to negotiate your service fees these days and it's getting more favourable with each day. If you go into a meeting with the intention to be the screwer and not the screwee, I can almost guarantee you'll come out as the victim. Know your price and your worth, leave the malice outside and negotiate as a professional and not as a thug.